Your generic God debate containing Aliens and lots of excitement! -

STM · #**151** 12-19-2010, 11:31 AM

No, it makes you instantly cooler than you are already =)

shaman · #**152** 12-19-2010, 11:34 AM

You will lead me totheark.

***Nate*** · #**153** 12-19-2010, 11:36 AM

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You know the tower of Babel was real don't you...under the name of Etemenanki, the Tower of Babel was simply an enormous Ziggurat for God in Babylon. No one knows why it was downed but it was restored by Nabopolassar

You're full of shit. You take a well-known myth and try to link it to an unrelated archeological find. Where is the goddamned proof?

Manco · #**154** 12-19-2010, 11:36 AM

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You will lead me totheark.

Maybe we should make a Marble Hornets thread instead of veering off-topic here.

EDIT: ONTOPICNOW
I don't think he's trying to say they're one and the same, just that Etemenanki inspired the Tower of Babel myth.

STM · #**155** 12-19-2010, 11:38 AM

Nate, the two finds are archaeologically and geographically the same, rather than dispute everything I say, do a little research for yourself.

***Nate*** · #**156** 12-19-2010, 11:38 AM

The two finds? I count one Ziggurat. What's the other one?

Manco · #**157** 12-19-2010, 11:39 AM

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do a little research for yourself.

Okay

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According to modern scholars such as Stephen L. Harris, the biblical story of the Tower of Babel was likely influenced by Etemenanki during the Babylonian captivity of the Hebrews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etemenanki

STM · #**158** 12-19-2010, 11:40 AM

Thankyou, see Nate, you do realize there is more than one ziggurat don't you...there just tombs.

Manco · #**159** 12-19-2010, 11:44 AM

They're just tombs, therefore THE TOWER OF BABEL IS REAL GUYS

***Nate*** · #**160** 12-19-2010, 11:45 AM

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Thankyou, see Nate, you do realize there is more than one ziggurat don't you...there just tombs.

Once again, I don't see your point.

There's a ziggurat and there's a story. Who are you to say that they are both one and the same?

T-nex · #**161** 12-19-2010, 11:45 AM

Can I please, please, please post this vid?

shaman · #**162** 12-19-2010, 11:45 AM

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They're just tombs, therefore THE TOWER OF BABEL IS REAL GUYS

What about the ark? I hope so.

Wings of Fire · #**163** 12-19-2010, 11:46 AM

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Can I please, please, please post this vid?

NO

User was banned for this post.

STM · #**164** 12-19-2010, 11:47 AM

Which one of us are you ripping?

***Nate*** · #**165** 12-19-2010, 11:48 AM

Addendum to my last post: And even if the story is inspired by the ziggurat, that doesn't make the story true and it certainly doesn't make the Tower of Babel real.

STM · #**166** 12-19-2010, 11:52 AM

IT'S NOT 'THE' ZIGGURAT, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF ZIGGURATS, AS IN THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF TOMBS! NOT 1, HUNDREDS, 1, 100, 1, 100! JEZAZ

Manco · #**167** 12-19-2010, 11:54 AM

So how does that prove your point?

***Nate*** · #**168** 12-19-2010, 11:54 AM

Eh. I was talking about Etemenanki. That doesn't change what I was saying.

Your insistence on picking at fine details implies to me that you have no actual facts to back up your argument.

STM · #**169** 12-19-2010, 11:56 AM

Ok, calm, which point, the one that the Tower of Babel is real? Fuck my I don't know, you guys are destroying my mind. It's real, I made that clear back when I was sane a while ago and you even provided proof with that wikipedia article.

And as much as I love this riveting argument, I'm off to watch the Apprentice...Aidan out.

Manco · #**170** 12-19-2010, 12:00 PM

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Ok, calm, which point, the one that the Tower of Babel is real? Fuck my I don't know, you guys are destroying my mind. It's real, I made that clear back when I was sane a while ago and you even provided proof with that wikipedia article.

And as much as I love this riveting argument, I'm off to watch the Apprentice...Aidan out.

Yeah I really don't think you read that Wikipedia article very well.

For the record, it says Etemenanki INSPIRED the Tower of Babel STORY. This does NOT prove the Tower of Babel existed, OR that it served the function it did in the story.

LDG519 · #**171** 12-19-2010, 12:43 PM

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I'm reloading the guns, people.

You are presuming a man where there is no evidence of one. Listen. Taste the air. You are alone.

your correct there

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Religion is nothing but human error.

that can be said for most religions but in the eyse of a religious person there will always be that one right religion

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That is as insulting as it is ridiculous. "Brought up in a religious family". Which religion? Yours? Do you not think it odd that almost everyone believes in the religion that they were born in? Is this chance occurrence really sufficient to believe in one over another? It is so arrogant and egocentric. It implies that your religion is the right one because you were born into it. Or else that you are otherwise so special that your god would not have permitted you to be born into the wrong one. It's ridiculous. It's arbitrary. It's not enough to keep the mind alive.

I have to agree with BM on this one, if your raised into a family that belives a certain religion then your more likely to think that one is the right one, I know this from first hand experience.

Bullet Magnet · #**172** 12-19-2010, 01:17 PM

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I don't feel I need to continue because the argument will keep running in circles, it's a shame you want me to continue just to see me crash and burn as well.

I have only, as always, parried blows. I haven't even begun to deal my own.

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I don't think BM won the debate personally in the sense that to win a debate you must show your opponent that they are wrong and then the opponent should see it the victors way.

It has always been too much to ask that one side of a debate will be convinced by the other, unless the issue is a purely scientific one had between scientists (where it happens all the time). When the topic is religion, only by embarking on that journey yourself will your mind be changed, and in debates those people are in the audience sitting with rapt attention. In a formal debate the proposer and opposer of a motion are expected to be well educated and therefore already know the other side's position, it is the audience who are being convinced, shown by before and after votes. The swing decides the victor, not the numbers. That is not the case here, and I don't suppose there is anyone for me to convince, let alone that I have. Particularly since "the audience" are also participants. I can but put it to our peers: who has presented the most compelling argument, regardless of their views?

As it is, I would be happy only to shake your confidence in the arguments you have presented. If it does nothing but to force you to seek and understand better arguments for your position, well, that's progress of a kind, and I take that as a victory.

I could not possibly convince you of anything here. I can't prove a negative! But I am confident in being able to argue against most any argument, among other things. I know of atheists who look at religion, particularly Christianity, and wish it were true, wish that they could possibly believe it. I do not count myself among them, and I think I can make a very could case explaining why.

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Don't be insulted, it is the truth, there are three real religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, of course I'm not going to say Hinduism is the one true religion because to me it's bloody well not, of course I imply that the true religions are the ones with my God stated as the divine being. No matter what I go through I will never accept that there is no God, there is a God, there will always be a God, my God, arrogant, egocentric, I don't care, when would a Zoroastrian for example ever admit that their god is not true.

Baseless assertion! You are correct, though, in saying that a religious person will never admit that their faith is wrong. By the time they have been convinced of that, they are faithless. A state that I wholly recommend, by the way.

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Ok, you really answered your first question with your second one, I don't care if I offend other faiths that much over the internet at least because I generally believe my religion or at least the religions that believe in my God are the only religions for obvious reasons.

Please share these reasons. As I plan to tell my children: they are free to believe whatever they will, but I expect that anything that will persuade my children of the truth of their religion will also be able to persuade me.

Manco · #**173** 12-19-2010, 01:58 PM

I'd say Bullet won the debate, except it wasn't a debate so much as a trainwreck.

LDG519 · #**174** 12-19-2010, 02:23 PM

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I'd say Bullet won the debate, except it wasn't a debate so much as a trainwreck.

I'lld have to agree bullet definately won this debate

STM · #**175** 12-19-2010, 02:49 PM

Perhaps he did, may I firstly say that the crashing and burning comment was not aimed at you Bullet Magnet, more so at other characters who shall remain anonymous.

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I know of atheists who look at religion, particularly Christianity, and wish it were true, wish that they could possibly believe it. I do not count myself among them, and I think I can make a very could case explaining why.

Please make this case, I am intrigued.

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Baseless assertion! You are correct, though, in saying that a religious person will never admit that their faith is wrong. By the time they have been convinced of that, they are faithless. A state that I wholly recommend, by the way.

I'm sure you would, but this debate has (perhaps unfortunately) brought me to question over the last few days, some of the things I have always held closely as truth, the Ark for example, did Noah bring plants to the ship?bacteria? Virus? If you are trying to destroy my faith in God or convert me to Atheism, perhaps you are taking a small victory but I hope it is not celebrated, it's a sad thing for some one to lose hope or stop believing in something they hold dear, not that I no longer believe in God.

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Please share these reasons. As I plan to tell my children: "they are free to believe whatever they will, but I expect that anything that will persuade my children of the truth of their religion will also be able to persuade me."

I don't think you want me to answer this so as to see what a decent reply will be but merely because you think I have no answer and hope I called your bluff as it were.
Well, obviously, I have been brought up as a Christian, to see that God is true and his teachings have corrected me and guided me through my early life. Moulded me into a semi-decent person even if I fail to keep all his laws. Perhaps if my parents were Hindu I would be a Hindu but...perhaps if this were the case I would instantly convert to Christianity the one truth apostolic faith. Of course this is a pointless and trivial pursuit because it touches into fantasy and mindless speculation, not religion or science.

Your children, I am sure, are far more impressionable than you, if I was to take control of them (assuming they are still relatively young) I could indoctrinate them with God but maybe it would be better to allow them to reach an older age and give them a Bible..."Is this possibly how life is, how it is made and what lies ahead for you," I was never given the option to make the decision for myself, maybe this is a curse but to me, it was the most beautiful gift, the chance to have the worship of my God installed in my mind, so that I don't have to make the decision for myself...this may sound extremely idiotic to you but no, I prefer to have been indoctrinated and by Lord I would not have it any other way.

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I'lld have to agree bullet definately won this debate

I'm sorry to here that. Though I never expected to win as in win a battle or a match, that is not what I am striving for, as I stated in the beginning of this affair, I am trying to hold my own and restore some sense of respect that apparently someone once held.

Manco · #**176** 12-19-2010, 03:20 PM

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I am trying to hold my own and restore some sense of respect that apparently someone once held.

You're doing a pretty poor job of it.

Sekto Springs · #**177** 12-19-2010, 03:33 PM

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some of the things I have always held closely as truth, the Ark for example, did Noah bring plants to the ship? bacteria? Virus?

You held Noah's Ark as truth? I didn't think any Christians today, no matter how diluted, still considered that to be anything more than a bedtime story. I mean, the "two of every animal" thing is so absurd it's almost Seussian.

***Nate*** · #**178** 12-19-2010, 04:13 PM

Who cares if he held it as truth? I'm more disturbed by the fact that he clearly hasn't bothered to even read the story that he holds as canonical truth.

Noah didn't need to take plants on the ark because God allowed them to regrow as the flood waters receded. And if you don't believe me; how did Noah discover that the flood had ended?

Wings of Fire · #**179** 12-19-2010, 04:19 PM

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Your children, I am sure, are far more impressionable than you, if I was to take control of them (assuming they are still relatively young) I could indoctrinate them with God but maybe it would be better to allow them to reach an older age and give them a Bible..."Is this possibly how life is, how it is made and what lies ahead for you," I was never given the option to make the decision for myself, maybe this is a curse but to me, it was the most beautiful gift, the chance to have the worship of my God installed in my mind, so that I don't have to make the decision for myself...this may sound extremely idiotic to you but no, I prefer to have been indoctrinated and by Lord I would not have it any other way.

Quoted and bolded so more people will notice.

Boy I wish I could sig that.

Sekto Springs · #**180** 12-19-2010, 04:25 PM

Self-aware zombie. I dont know whether to laugh or cry. I'm stuck between the two, like when you hit your elbow.