Your generic God debate containing Aliens and lots of excitement! -

LDG519 · #**181** 12-19-2010, 06:15 PM

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Though I never expected to win as in win a battle or a match, that is not what I am striving for, as I stated in the beginning of this affair, I am trying to hold my own and restore some sense of respect that apparently someone once held.

I think you did a pretty good job of holding your own and I dont think anyone has crashed and burned, the fact is nothing BM has said has disproved religion, it has only supported science and knocked down any attacks sent to him, also just about everything he said is accurate

Manco · #**182** 12-19-2010, 10:43 PM

No, Scrabtrapman has done a really poor job of defending himself; while Bullet has backed up his opinions and arguments with scientific evidence and reasonably well-constructed logic, STM has been using faith as his one and only argument, and keeps falling back on "well that's just my belief, hurr" every time he is challenged.

STM · #**183** 12-20-2010, 02:05 AM

Not really no. I haven't actually said anything like that, at least I don't think I have...if you can back that up then fine.

Manco · #**184** 12-20-2010, 06:25 AM

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Not really no. I haven't actually said anything like that, at least I don't think I have...if you can back that up then fine.

Here you go:

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Well to be fair I won't be continuing this argument, I think BM's scientific intelligence outshines mine to the point were I'm really digging for answers, it comes down to this though, religion requires faith, some people are lacking or were never fortunate enough to be brought up into a religious family. This argument was never going to change either of our ideas on how the Universe came about and such but nevertheless, it was an interesting debate. Well done BM I suppose.
Perhaps we need a debate thread?

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Don't be insulted, it is the truth, there are three real religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, of course I'm not going to say Hinduism is the one true religion because to me it's bloody well not, of course I imply that the true religions are the ones with my God stated as the divine being. No matter what I go through I will never accept that there is no God, there is a God, there will always be a God, my God, arrogant, egocentric, I don't care, when would a Zoroastrian for example ever admit that their god is not true.

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Ok, you really answered your first question with your second one, I don't care if I offend other faiths that much over the internet at least because I generally believe my religion or at least the religions that believe in my God are the only religions for obvious reasons.

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Let me put it to you like this, ignoring red shift and such "proof" because there are similar possibilities for the creation and not just Christian and Jewish creation:

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...It doesn't have to convince you, it convinces me.

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Well obviously because I am an idiot so HAR HARDY HAR! And if you are serious then my serious face answer is that I feel my gut instinct is there must be something better or more divine than what my life is as the moment, there simply has to be. If you don't believe in God or think I am an idiot because I do, let me have this.

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There's a God, if there wasn't I wouldn't pray to him. simple as.

STM · #**185** 12-20-2010, 07:08 AM

...Not all of that was part of my argument...hmm

Manco · #**186** 12-20-2010, 07:10 AM

But plenty of it is. I used examples from other threads to underline my point, which is that religious debates always end up with one side (guess which?) saying something like "well that's just what I believe/some people just have faith".

OANST · #**187** 12-20-2010, 07:57 AM

I recently had an argument with April about religion, and Abbey's exposure to it.

Abbey had heard someone talking about god at some point, and she asked me about it. I told her in very basic terms what the story was, and I told her why it wasn't real. April overheard me, and confronted me about it, saying that we should let her find out for herself what she believes in. I responded that while I am okay with her believing whatever she wants, I will be damned if I am not going to explain to my child the way that the world works. And furthermore, it isn't like Santa Claus, which is fun, innocent, and not harmful in any way. This is religion, which is disgusting, hateful, and a source of great pain all throughout human history.

To make a long story short (mostly because I was in a rage, and I can't remember most of the conversation), I ended it by saying that I will not be told to keep quiet about something which is so fundamental to who I am in my own home, and be damned to you if you ever ask me to again.

T-nex · #**188** 12-20-2010, 08:25 AM

I just think it's weird that anyone would wanna keep a fact secret from their own kid just because they'd want them to find out for themselves. Unless of course, April is religious. X_x dunno if you ever mentioned that.

Luckily, I grew up in an atheist home. When I was a kid, my friend tried to convert me, and I politely did what he told me to do(like praying and stuff), just to try it out. Can't say I ever found it very rewarding, it felt kinda stupid praying to yourself knowing that no one hears you.
And I never got that Kitten that I wanted anyway

OANST · #**189** 12-20-2010, 08:43 AM

She's more passive agnostic to my militant atheist.

I could never live with a religious person. That wouldn't work.

T-nex · #**190** 12-20-2010, 08:48 AM

Well even if she's agnostic, that must mean she doesn't believe the religious story. otherwise she'd be religious. so I still don't see why anyone who's not really religious would want their child to "find out for themselves" thus possibly sending them into a spiral of really bad religion.

It probably doesn't mean much, but I'd say you were right in fighting against Abbey finding out for herself, and just laying out the truth directly.

Like I guess it would be the same as saying that every child must burn their finger on the stove in order to know not to touch it when it's on, instead of just warning them that it will burn them.

OANST · #**191** 12-20-2010, 08:53 AM

Yes, well, you'll get no argument from me.

STM · #**192** 12-20-2010, 08:54 AM

So OANST if your daughter became a religious follower what, would you disown her? And I do remember you giving me a bollocking because at some point you were a Baptist, am I wrong there, just generally wondering?

OANST · #**193** 12-20-2010, 09:03 AM

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So OANST if your daughter became a religious follower what, would you disown her? And I do remember you giving me a bollocking because at some point you were a Baptist, am I wrong there, just generally wondering?

Did you even bother to read what I wrote, or did the part where I said that she can believe whatever she wants escape your understanding?

I was raised Baptist. I went to a Baptist school, and went to church three times a week. My entire childhood was spent studying the Bible, and learning the Christian idea of morality. I spent my teen and adult years unlearning all this bullshit.

STM · #**194** 12-20-2010, 09:05 AM

Oh, out of interest, what made you atheist? I hope I'm not prying into something that you don't want to say or anything I'm just curious as to what converts someone.

OANST · #**195** 12-20-2010, 09:08 AM

The fact that Christianity is absolute nonsense is what did the trick.

Seriously. They hated me at the school and the church because I was the one kid who was always saying that it didn't make sense, and could you please explain it to me. They wouldn't let me back for high school.

STM · #**196** 12-20-2010, 09:12 AM

Well if they didn't answer your questions and things then It's understandable you converted, how can you educate something as delicate and extensive as religion, any religion without answering questions?

OANST · #**197** 12-20-2010, 09:13 AM

There were no answers to my questions. That's because it's nonsense.

STM · #**198** 12-20-2010, 09:23 AM

Says the atheist.

OANST · #**199** 12-20-2010, 09:39 AM

Exactly. But when I first started saying it I wasn't an atheist.

Like it or not, pretty much all of your arguments boil down to faith, as does the argument of every religious person. The problem with this is that the only reason that you have this faith is because of the indoctrination. You've never seen anything that implies that the Christian god is real. Let's put aside whether or not you "see" or feel god in everything that surrounds you. The Christian god is your god because your parents said that was the real one, and you bought it, you fucking sheep. No matter what you're told, such as the fact that the Jesus story was told verbatim as the Horus story one thousand years before Jesus' supposed birth, it doesn't matter. Because you're too fucking scared to allow that when you die that's it, you're dead, or you're too fucking stupid to put two and two together.

And yet, your kind is dying off little by little. Every generation sees a rise in the number of atheists, and I thank your imaginary, ridiculous god for that.

STM · #**200** 12-20-2010, 09:42 AM

Your wrong, and when you die, look St. Michael in the eye for me and tell him he's not real before you fall.

OANST · #**201** 12-20-2010, 09:45 AM

What exactly am I wrong about?

STM · #**202** 12-20-2010, 09:47 AM

Wrong that God's not real, wrong that I'm stupid, it appears your just generally wrong tbh.

OANST · #**203** 12-20-2010, 09:49 AM

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Wrong that God's not real, wrong that I'm stupid, it appears your just generally wrong tbh.

I didn't say that you were stupid. I put options out there. After all the evidence to the contrary has been placed in front of you, your hanging on to your bizarre superstitions show that

A. You're afraid to die.

B. You're stupid.

I'll not be the one to tell you which it is. Your choice.

Manco · #**204** 12-20-2010, 09:51 AM

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Wrong that God's not real, wrong that I'm stupid, it appears your just generally wrong tbh.

No no, please don't back up your petty insults with evidence.

OANST · #**205** 12-20-2010, 09:55 AM

And I would not have used such strong language had you not fallen back on the trope that every Christian uses to explain away the conversion of a former Christian. Every single time I have this conversation I have to deal with the fucking moron across from me explaining away my atheism by either saying that I must have had a bad experience with the church, or that the church leaders were just ill equipped to answer my questions.

No. I'm an atheist because your religion is a lie, and not even a very good one.

LDG519 · #**206** 12-20-2010, 12:09 PM

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religious debates always end up with one side (guess which?) saying something like "well that's just what I believe/some people just have faith".

you are absalutly correct that in religious debates the religious side ends up saying something along the lines of "faith" but guess why, because it is true, faith in most religions is one of the most important factors, and of course science is going to have evidence to back up what they say because they dont make a conclution without said evidence, but the fact is that nothing science has said has actually disproved the possability of a god, hell evan bullet magnet said that theres no 100% proof thad god doesnt exist

OANST · #**207** 12-20-2010, 12:22 PM

There also isn't 100 percent evidence of the absence of rainbow shitting unicorns, but you know, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they aren't real.

T-nex · #**208** 12-20-2010, 12:26 PM

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you are absalutly correct that in religious debates the religious side ends up saying something along the lines of "faith" but guess why, because it is true, faith in most religions is one of the most important factors, and of course science is going to have evidence to back up what they say because they dont make a conclution without said evidence, but the fact is that nothing science has said has actually disproved the possability of a god, hell evan bullet magnet said that theres no 100% proof thad god doesnt exist

But there has been scientific back-up against much of the current religions.

A god is possible. But the religions that exist today, I'd say not so much.

Why can't you people just be happy with being an Agnostic or something? You get freedom PLUS the possibility of an afterlife

Manco · #**209** 12-20-2010, 12:26 PM

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you are absalutly correct that in religious debates the religious side ends up saying something along the lines of "faith" but guess why, because it is true, faith in most religions is one of the most important factors, and of course science is going to have evidence to back up what they say because they dont make a conclution without said evidence, but the fact is that nothing science has said has actually disproved the possability of a god, hell evan bullet magnet said that theres no 100% proof thad god doesnt exist

Nothing science or faith has ever done or said has proved the existence of a deity of any kind.

Can I ask, where do you get your faith from? What makes it so special to you that you can put complete trust in something without any evidence for it? What puts faith above the scientific method?

LDG519 · #**210** 12-20-2010, 12:42 PM

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Nothing science or faith has ever done or said has proved the existence of a deity of any kind.

Can I ask, where do you get your faith from? What makes it so special to you that you can put complete trust in something without any evidence for it? What puts faith above the scientific method?

my faith comes from me, it is true that the existance of a god cant be proven either but many historians will tell you that the major events in the bible are historically accurate (this is something my church told me so it could be wrong)

I cant possably learn evry religion on earth so I choose one I agree with and keep true to it, and belive it or not miracles still happen there just hard to spot