An argument about music and Art and Justin Bieber's body double -

OANST · #31 01-26-2016, 10:06 AM

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That's called being a pretentious hipster.

Why?

Varrok · #32 01-26-2016, 10:07 AM

The best way to respond to an argument is call the poster edgy and pretentious

OANST · #33 01-26-2016, 10:09 AM

Yes, and I'm dying to hear an explanation.

FrustratedAssassin · #34 01-26-2016, 10:10 AM

Because intent literally has no effect on the quality of the music? If it sounds good it's good. If it sounds bad it's bad, no matter how much soul and passion has been put into it.

Also you seem to believe I listen to Justin Bieber because I linked to that one video?

If you said you don't like a certain type of music because of your tastes then it would be OK. But saying stuff like "I don't like it because it's soulless" is a stupid excuse.

Varrok · #35 01-26-2016, 10:14 AM

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Because intent literally has no effect on the quality of the music?

It has a huge effect, especially on vocals. There are many vocalists who, while technically hitting all the notes perfectly, sound more bland and uninspired than others.

It heavily affects songwriting as well, that's why there are so many 4 chords famous pop songs that sound basically the same. It's because as they were writing them, they based them off a certain formula, that proved to be successful before. There was little to no creativity in them at all

OANST · #36 01-26-2016, 10:18 AM

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Because intent literally has no effect on the quality of the music? If it sounds good it's good. If it sounds bad it's bad, no matter how much soul and passion has been put into it.

There are two ways to look at music, both completely valid. Music as art. Music as entertainment. Your philosophy falls squarely in the second. Does that mean that you have bad taste? Yes. Yes, it does. But you're entitled to enjoy your bad taste!

FrustratedAssassin · #37 01-26-2016, 10:20 AM

Bad taste literally does not exist. Because taste is 100% subjective. But if you can do that I can just say you have bad taste in music because I don't like what you like.

OANST · #38 01-26-2016, 10:23 AM

Only people with bad taste say there is no bad taste.

Varrok · #39 01-26-2016, 10:23 AM

Bad taste exists because bad music exists.

Need proof?

But don't say I didn't warn ya.

FrustratedAssassin · #40 01-26-2016, 10:25 AM

OK that is objectively bad taste.

Varrok · #41 01-26-2016, 10:25 AM

Now you're just contradicting yourself.

OANST · #42 01-26-2016, 10:27 AM

I don't know at what point I started trying to intentionally piss you off, but I hope you realized it.

I do think you have bad taste, but so does my wife, and I love the shit out of her. Having bad taste doesn't make you a bad person.

Varrok · #43 01-26-2016, 10:28 AM

Yeah, most of my acquiantances have a bad taste. It's understandable.

FrustratedAssassin · #44 01-26-2016, 10:29 AM

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I don't know at what point I started trying to intentionally piss you off, but I hope you realized it.

I do think you have bad taste, but so does my wife, and I love the shit out of her. Having bad taste doesn't make you a bad person.

Yes I realized that but people trying to intentionally piss me off only makes me even angrier. Because I'm trying to have an actual conversation with someone and they go full middle school mode just for the kicks.

OANST · #45 01-26-2016, 10:31 AM

Hence our cries of joy!

Varrok · #46 01-26-2016, 10:32 AM

I don't really want to piss you off, I'm just trying to make a point in discussion. I'm pretty bored. I don't hate you or anything.

Holy Sock · #47 01-26-2016, 10:37 AM

I can't smell so I taste badly.

Varrok · #48 01-26-2016, 10:47 AM

It'd be hell to be a sock with an ability to smell.

At least for a while, because smell adaptation.

FrustratedAssassin · #49 01-26-2016, 10:48 AM

How would you even know you're a teddy bear

Varrok · #50 01-26-2016, 10:49 AM

That's racist. We're all equal lol

OANST · #51 01-26-2016, 10:49 AM

How does anyone know they're a teddy bear?

Varrok · #52 01-26-2016, 10:57 AM

Being a teddy bear is a choice. We're not actually born that way.

Dynamithix · #53 01-26-2016, 11:21 AM

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You guys can't honestly tell me that you consider pop music (music written as a salable product being presented by a salesman (artist)) to be in the same ballpark as music written by musicians who write music because they love sound, can you?

I can sort of see what you're getting at, but at the same time I don't really understand your point. Is all music that qualifies as pop music objectively bad to you because some of it was made only to be a "product to sell" as you put it? How do you know which artists do and don't make music just for the money involved? I'm having difficulty grasping my head around the points you made in the posts above. Maybe I'm just confusing pop music and popular music here, hmm.

OANST · #54 01-26-2016, 11:23 AM

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I can sort of see what you're getting at, but at the same time I don't really understand your point. Is all music that qualifies as pop music objectively bad to you because some of it was made only to be a "product to sell" as you put it? How do you know which artists do and don't make music just for the money involved? I'm having difficulty grasping my head around the points you made in the posts above. Maybe I'm just confusing pop music and popular music here, hmm.

My criteria is very simple. Do you create music? Art. Is music created for you to sell? Not art.

EDIT: Also, "are you creating music for a salesman to sell" will fall under "not art" for me.

Varrok · #55 01-26-2016, 11:26 AM

Not all popular music is objectively bad, for example Ylvis's songs seem fairly complex with all the elements I think a good music should have. At least this one, as I don't know many of their songs:

It's also funny.

FrustratedAssassin · #56 01-26-2016, 11:28 AM

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My criteria is very simple. Do you create music? Art. Is music created for you to sell? Not art.

And that leaves you with around 0.1% of all music and you can't even listen to it because it's literally impossible to find. That's why I called you a hipster earlier. If it's popular it's suddenly bad.

Edit: oh shit you said music created for you whatever that's still a close-minded point of view in my opinion

Also here's a song that came out 14 days ago that I was just listening to.

Is it bad just because it's new?

Dynamithix · #57 01-26-2016, 11:32 AM

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My criteria is very simple. Do you create music? Art. Is music created for you to sell? Not art.

Alright, I get what you're saying now, but isn't it a bit unfair to dismiss certain artists simply as factorymade pop music? I'm pretty sure not all of Justin Bieber's music is like that.

OANST · #58 01-26-2016, 11:32 AM

Whoah. You're crazy. That leaves you with 80 percent of all music to choose from, and no one said anything about popular being bad.

FrustratedAssassin · #59 01-26-2016, 11:37 AM

Like I said, I misunderstood "Is music created for you to sell?" as "Do you create music to sell it?", and most artists do create music to sell it because they'd have no money afterwards.

OANST · #60 01-26-2016, 11:45 AM

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Alright, I get what you're saying now, but isn't it a bit unfair to dismiss certain artists simply as factorymade pop music? I'm pretty sure not all of Justin Bieber's music is like that.

I only dismiss salesmen as factory made pop if they are selling factorymade pop.

Also, I refuse to call them artists. Models seems like a better term.