Problems -

Jacob · #31 06-09-2002, 07:22 PM

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Example: Im sure you liked Ronald McDonald when you were younger, but now he seems very childish.

Erm...to put a point to Danny's remark Ronald McDonald isn't targetted at Teens and/or Adults. It is targetted at the babies and the simple of mind. OWI basically targets their games at all ages.

Danny · #32 06-09-2002, 07:39 PM

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Originally posted by Jacob
OWI basically targets their games at all ages.

...or should do...

Jacob · #33 06-09-2002, 07:48 PM

...or try to

***Alcar*** · #34 06-09-2002, 09:48 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
What the hell does this sentence mean? "Proper" isn't a verb... "Supposable" isn't even a word, I don't think...(1)

Ha! You don't make a big deal out of it being their opinions when they agree with you, do you? (2)

I was shit-scared of Ronald McDonald when I was younger, and I still am... (3)

The point Chris was making is that "Fart Breath" is a very childish joke, and therefore will only be considered funny by children and childish adults... Still, I'm sure we can all see the "fun" in making a little computer sprite say "fart breath"... Ha ha ha, Wheee! (4)

Why do you make out that anybody else's opinions can simply be dismissed because they are Opinions, whereas you seem to believe that your own opinions are some kind of Noble Truth that can be used to refute any arguments made by anyone else?(5)

See?(6)

No, it isn't. It's childish humour. "All-round humour" would be something that appeals to all kinds of people. "Fart breath" only appeals to children. And you, apparently.(7)

We don't want it targeted at a Teen Audience, because then we'd just have Dawson's Creek in a computer game... (Oh, the horror...) What we want is a return to the original games, which weren't targeted at any particular age group, but appealed to children, adolescents, and adults (as can be observed by noting the wide variety of ages on the forums).(8)

Look, if you want proof that MO is targeting a much narrower (and younger) age group than the first two, just look at us. When the forums were first founded, we got members coming in from a wide variety of age groups. Many of them are still here today.(9)

But look at the people who have joined since MO, and you will see that the vast majority of newbies are now young children. This is living proof of OWI's change in target audience. What more do you want?(10)

1. To proper something is just like saying to fix something. Supposable is deffinately a word, look them up in a dictionary.

2. If you read my posts properly you'll find that I am trying to proper some supposable problems people have with MO. He didn't have a problem, therefore all I could do was say saomething like what I did.

3. I was using him as an example, maybe some people did find him scary when they were young. I'd think that most found him funny or 'enjoyable' at a very younger age.

4. Well i'm a bit confused, first you say you find it childish for a creature known as a Slig to call you "Fart breath" but then you go and say that it's funny if a sprite does it, that just sounds like your letting others opinions get to you and make you want to dislike something that isn't all that bad.

5. I haven't dismissed anyone's opinions, i've tried exceptionally hard to not do much with opinions. What i've done is counter some problems people have had with the game. You don't have to believe me in what i've said, afterall Danny, i'm just a childish adult, or should it be: fun loving adult? :P

6. See above on the last two sentences.

7. It appeals to a lot of people, its the non-ignorant majority of people who knew what should have been in the game who are now against it. I'd say that the people who are ignorant and bought MO and loved it are far better off. And anyway, MO has sold a lot of copies of the game. Must mean people like it?

8. How isn't MO at the moment targeted at all ages, if I remember correctly we had someone sign up from Germany who was of the age of 40 something.

9. See above, and we still have a wide variety of members.

10. Most of them are in their early teens.

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Originally posted by Jacob
Erm...to put a point to Danny's remark Ronald McDonald isn't targetted at Teens and/or Adults. It is targetted at the babies and the simple of mind. (1)OWI basically targets their games at all ages.(2)

1. When i first posted about Ronald McDonald, I was implying that he was targeted at children. I never said it was targeted at Adults or teens.

2. They sure do target the games at all ages.

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Originally posted by Danny
[B]...or should do...(1)[B]

1. Simple, they do.

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Originally posted by Jacob
[B]...or try to...(1)[B]

1. Ah, Jacob i see you changed your view-point on it as soon as Danny came in and said something. I hope Danny isn't the one pulling your strings.

Danny · #35 06-09-2002, 10:56 PM

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Originally posted by Alcar
1. To proper something is just like saying to fix something. Supposable is deffinately a word, look them up in a dictionary.

You're right about Supposable, but Proper can only be an Adjective, Noun, or Adverb, not a Verb. Sorry.

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2. If you read my posts properly you'll find that I am trying to proper some supposable problems people have with MO. He didn't have a problem, therefore all I could do was say saomething like what I did.

Using your definition of "proper" (since the real one isn't a verb), this roughly translates as "I am trying to fix some problems people have with MO". There are two ways of doing that: 1) Change MO; and 2) Change people's opinions. You can't do 1), but you claim to not do 2), when in fact it is exactly what you are doing...

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4. Well i'm a bit confused, first you say you find it childish for a creature known as a Slig to call you "Fart breath" but then you go and say that it's funny if a sprite does it, that just sounds like your letting others opinions get to you and make you want to dislike something that isn't all that bad.

Okay, I know sarcasm is difficult to read into text, but come on, that was obvious! I said "ha ha ha, whee!", for crying out loud, and you still took me seriously...

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5. I haven't dismissed anyone's opinions, i've tried exceptionally hard to not do much with opinions.

Every time anybody says anything, you respond with "That is your opinion", and use that as an excuse to not address what they are saying.

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What i've done is counter some problems people have had with the game.

"Counter some problems"? You have tried to convince people that you are right and they are wrong. Don't try and pretend otherwise.

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7. It appeals to a lot of people, its the non-ignorant majority of people who knew what should have been in the game who are now against it. I'd say that the people who are ignorant and bought MO and loved it are far better off. And anyway, MO has sold a lot of copies of the game. Must mean people like it?

So you are saying that I don't find the term "Fart Breath" funny because I knew about things that OWI eventually cut out of the game? I don't see how knowing that Sam and Meetles and things should have been in the game has any bearing on whether or not I find childish humour amusing...

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8. How isn't MO at the moment targeted at all ages, if I remember correctly we had someone sign up from Germany who was of the age of 40 something.

If you look at what I actually said, you will see that I said that the "vast majority" of the newbies are children, not that all of them are. Of course there are exceptions, but you can't use them to disprove a trend.

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10. Most of them are in their early teens.

They are prepubescent, and so are children.

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2. They sure do target the games at all ages.

Then why are the *ahem* vast majority of the newbies who have joined since MO was released children?

MojoMan220 · #36 06-09-2002, 11:04 PM

Quit arguing; why take so much time trying to proove someone wrong or stupid?

Danny · #37 06-09-2002, 11:48 PM

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Originally posted by MojoMan220
Quit arguing; why take so much time trying to proove someone wrong or stupid?

Because it's fun?

Anyway, it's not exactly time-consuming...

***Alcar*** · #38 06-10-2002, 12:00 AM

I'll say it again, this topic was to air some problems with the game notice the topic's title. I know quite a few people that are feed up with the bitchin that is going on about MO. Do you know what? Go off to the stupid ezboard and make yourselves an MO hate forum, so maybe the people who like MO can have themselves a good time at the ODDWORLD forums.

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Originally posted by Danny
You're right about Supposable, but Proper can only be an Adjective, Noun, or Adverb, not a Verb. Sorry. (1)

Using your definition of "proper" (since the real one isn't a verb), this roughly translates as "I am trying to fix some problems people have with MO". There are two ways of doing that: 1) Change MO; and 2) Change people's opinions. You can't do 1), but you claim to not do 2), when in fact it is exactly what you are doing... (2)

Okay, I know sarcasm is difficult to read into text, but come on, that was obvious! I said "ha ha ha, whee!", for crying out loud, and you still took me seriously...(3)

Every time anybody says anything, you respond with "That is your opinion", and use that as an excuse to not address what they are saying. (4)

"Counter some problems"? You have tried to convince people that you are right and they are wrong. Don't try and pretend otherwise.(5)

So you are saying that I don't find the term "Fart Breath" funny because I knew about things that OWI eventually cut out of the game? I don't see how knowing that Sam and Meetles and things should have been in the game has any bearing on whether or not I find childish humour amusing...(6)

If you look at what I actually said, you will see that I said that the "vast majority" of the newbies are children, not that all of them are. Of course there are exceptions, but you can't use them to disprove a trend.(7)

They are prepubescent, and so are children.(8)

Then why are the *ahem* vast majority of the newbies who have joined since MO was released children?(9)

1. People over here use it as a verb as well. Who am I to blame if i'm to use it, i can't be polictically correct all the time.

2. I'm not going to explain it again.

3. I knew it was sarcasm, and you reacted as i thought you would. You see different people can perceive things in many different ways. Take MO for example, you've perceived it as being childish. Others perceive it as being non-childish.

4. This is what salty pretzils posted: "I think that making the change to 3D wasn't such a great idea myself." Thats is his/her opinion.

5. When i posted this topic i was at first chatting with Justin about if i should post it, as both myself and him knew that these kind of remarks would be made, obviously i chose to post it. I am not trying to convince people im right, you have a choice to believe me. I see that all your opinions are valid, but some things members say are outrageous. And i am thinking otherwise.

6. What i am saying is that maybe if the older members were ignorant of the fact that many things were tahen out that they might have liked what is in the game and not dwell on what could have been.

7. Most of the newbies who join dont even post, or dont even put down their age or birthday, how can you be sure.

8. Early teens.

9. There were still children joining up on the old ezboard forums, and even at the Ubb. Does this suggest AO and AE also have child attracting qualities.

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Quit arguing; why take so much time trying to proove someone wrong or stupid?(1)

1. The bitchin' must stop.

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Because it's fun?

Anyway, it's not exactly time-consuming...(1)

1. It's time consuming for me, just look at how big my posts can get!

Sl'askia · #39 06-10-2002, 12:15 AM

The reason the bitchers stay on the forums is that they are hoping ME will meet the expections MO did not. If anyone didn't like MO here they would have left or been banned ages ago.
You know as well as everyone else that members from OWI visit these forums...(Hi Alf!) to see what we think. That's why we bitch about the things we see are wrong...so they know and work to make the next game better. If we didn't bitch, moan, and groan about the faults they would keep using the things we didn't like. Result: we stop playing their games.
So what would you want us to do? Keep quiet about our dislikes? That would make the forum a boring place IMO. We all have different opinions...and as long as those opinions don't degrade and/or insult anyone...they are free to be expressed. If peeps have a problem with others opinions...they have the right not to read them.
Sorry if I was confrontational there...but your first paragraph got my goat with its tone...

Danny · #40 06-10-2002, 12:24 AM

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Originally posted by Alcar
I'll say it again, this topic was to air some problems with the game notice the topic's title. I know quite a few people that are feed up with the bitchin that is going on about MO. Do you know what? Go off to the stupid ezboard and make yourselves an MO hate forum, so maybe the people who like MO can have themselves a good time at the ODDWORLD forums.

So if people don't like MO, they're not allowed to like Oddworld? Besides, I only come here for the people here. What's wrong with that?

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1. People over here use it as a verb as well. Who am I to blame if i'm to use it, i can't be polictically correct all the time.

Now I'm confused... Who brought up political correctness?

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2. I'm not going to explain it again.

You didn't explain it the first time...

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3. I knew it was sarcasm, and you reacted as i thought you would.

Then why the hell did you pretend you didn't see it was sarcasm?

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You see different people can perceive things in many different ways. Take MO for example, you've perceived it as being childish. Others perceive it as being non-childish.

Those "others" are almost invariably (note the word "almost" in there, before you leap on me) children themselves.

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4. This is what salty pretzils posted: "I think that making the change to 3D wasn't such a great idea myself." Thats is his/her opinion.

But everything you have posted is your opinion as well. What's the difference?

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6. What i am saying is that maybe if the older members were ignorant of the fact that many things were tahen out that they might have liked what is in the game and not dwell on what could have been.

I wasn't dwelling on what could have been. I didn't even mention what could have been. All I was talking about was the immaturity of the humour.

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7. Most of the newbies who join dont even post, or dont even put down their age or birthday, how can you be sure.

We have to make the assumption that those who do stay are a representative slice of all those who join. We find that most of those are children. Therefore, we can make the statistical assumption that most of those who join are children. Clear?

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8. Early teens.

Yes. Children.

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9. There were still children joining up on the old ezboard forums, and even at the Ubb. Does this suggest AO and AE also have child attracting qualities.

Please listen to what I am saying:

AO and AE attracted a wide variety of ages. That includes children.

MO attracts almost (note again the lack of the sweeping generalisation that you like to pretend I am making) exclusively children.

See the difference there?

Now, so as to prevent the side-arguments from continuing, I will provide you with a brief summary of the arguments I have put forward in this topic that are directly connected with the discussion, so that you can reply to this instead of the whole paragraphs:

1. MO attracts mostly children, as opposed to AO and AE, which attracted a wide variety of age groups.

2. This is because a) the game's humour is infantile toilet humour rather than sophisticated satire, and b) cartoony graphics are used, rather than dark, believable, gothic landscapes.

3. It can therefore be assumed that MO has been targeted at a lower age range than the previous games.

4. This is what has put off the more mature fans.

Okay? This is my argument. Nothing to do with anything being left out of the game. That is somebody else's argument.

Melvin:squeeking paramite · #41 06-10-2002, 01:19 AM

I think Alcar's initial plan backfired... He seemed to be under the idea that every one hated MO because they left out things that were going to be in it, it was on x-box, etc... So he was trying to set people straight, giving them dignified answers. But now he sees that people are disappointed in it for other reasons too, he is rather helpless. So, he just says "That's just your opinion" to just about every thing people say... And also, I didn't really even know about the things that were cut out... I don't follow news updates about OW and the like.

:

I'll say it again, this topic was to air some problems with the game notice the topic's title. I know quite a few people that are feed up with the bitchin that is going on about MO. Do you know what? Go off to the stupid ezboard and make yourselves an MO hate forum, so maybe the people who like MO can have themselves a good time at the ODDWORLD forums.

Just because we didn't like MO as much as the others doesn't mean that we don't have the right to stay at the OW forums and post. (without flaming and spamming, of course...) It makes me sick that you'd be such an ass to say something like this. And Alcar... if you hadn't noticed... you made this topic, a topic for people to come in to and bitch about MO.

***Alcar*** · #42 06-10-2002, 01:48 AM

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Originally posted by Danny
So if people don't like MO, they're not allowed to like Oddworld? Besides, I only come here for the people here. What's wrong with that?

Now I'm confused... Who brought up political correctness?

You didn't explain it the first time...

Then why the hell did you pretend you didn't see it was sarcasm?

Those "others" are almost invariably (note the word "almost" in there, before you leap on me) children themselves.

But everything you have posted is your opinion as well. What's the difference?

I wasn't dwelling on what could have been. I didn't even mention what could have been. All I was talking about was the immaturity of the humour.

We have to make the assumption that those who do stay are a representative slice of all those who join. We find that most of those are children. Therefore, we can make the statistical assumption that most of those who join are children. Clear?

Yes. Children.

Please listen to what I am saying:

AO and AE attracted a wide variety of ages. That includes children.

MO attracts almost (note again the lack of the sweeping generalisation that you like to pretend I am making) exclusively children.

See the difference there?

Now, so as to prevent the side-arguments from continuing, I will provide you with a brief summary of the arguments I have put forward in this topic that are directly connected with the discussion, so that you can reply to this instead of the whole paragraphs:

1. MO attracts mostly children, as opposed to AO and AE, which attracted a wide variety of age groups.

2. This is because a) the game's humour is infantile toilet humour rather than sophisticated satire, and b) cartoony graphics are used, rather than dark, believable, gothic landscapes.

3. It can therefore be assumed that MO has been targeted at a lower age range than the previous games.

4. This is what has put off the more mature fans.

Okay? This is my argument. Nothing to do with anything being left out of the game. That is somebody else's argument.

1. You can't know that for sure, there are many more thousands of people who have bought MO, and just haven't signed up. You can't judge it on this forums population ages.

2. What allows you to decide what is infatile toilet humour? Like i've said, others would percieve it differently.

3. Nope.

4. Some of them.

I understand that, but other people have those other arguments.

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I think Alcar's initial plan backfired... He seemed to be under the idea that every one hated MO because they left out things that were going to be in it, it was on x-box, etc... So he was trying to set people straight, giving them dignified answers. But now he sees that people are disappointed in it for other reasons too, he is rather helpless. So, he just says "That's just your opinion" to just about every thing people say... (1)And also, I didn't really even know about the things that were cut out... I don't follow news updates about OW and the like. (2)

quote:
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I'll say it again, this topic was to air some problems with the game notice the topic's title. I know quite a few people that are feed up with the bitchin that is going on about MO. Do you know what? Go off to the stupid ezboard and make yourselves an MO hate forum, so maybe the people who like MO can have themselves a good time at the ODDWORLD forums.
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Just because we didn't like MO as much as the others doesn't mean that we don't have the right to stay at the OW forums and post. (without flaming and spamming, of course...) (3)It makes me sick that you'd be such an ass to say something like this. And Alcar... if you hadn't noticed... you made this topic, a topic for people to come in to and bitch about MO.(4)

1. Pah! Backfied! In your dreams! I knew it wasn't just because of the switch to the X-box or things they left out, there were many more things people had complained about.

2. So there proves one of my earlier points in some other post, not all people hated the game for it not having certain things in it.

3. I never said you should leave the OWF forums completely, your twisting my words. I said if people don't like MO, they should start a seperate MO hate forum somewhere. You could still come here and post, as i never said leave the OWF.

4. I created the topic for problems to be put to rest.

Sl'askia · #43 06-10-2002, 01:58 AM

I don't think anyone here hates MO, just disappointed with it. BIG difference. And as I said in my last post (which you seemed to have ignored...not saying you did...) peeps that didn't like OW and/or MO would not have lasted long here (because they would have been either banned or left on their own).
Besides..we already know the reasons OWI did this or that with what we don't like...but that doesn't stop us from voicing our opinions about it...so they can hear them.

Edit: Problems CAN'T be put to rest...not in MO at least. The problems with MO are there to stay. That's why we voice our opinions so OWI doesn't make the same mistakes with ME and the future OW games.

Melvin:squeeking paramite · #44 06-10-2002, 02:12 AM

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Originally posted by Alcar
1. Pah! Backfied! In your dreams! I knew it wasn't just because of the switch to the X-box or things they left out, there were many more things people had complained about.

2. So there proves one of my earlier points in some other post, not all people hated the game for it not having certain things in it.

3. I never said you should leave the OWF forums completely, your twisting my words. I said if people don't like MO, they should start a seperate MO hate forum somewhere. You could still come here and post, as i never said leave the OWF.

4. I created the topic for problems to be put to rest.

1. Well, it sure as hell seems to have backfired... after all, you haven't really gotten to clear up any thing about the problems with MO, or changed any one's opinions.

2. The thing is, that you can only truly clear up the reason things were left out... and you can explain why it moved to x-box... And if people don't complain about those, then there's no point. You'd have to change opinions/someone's way of viewing things.

3. Wow, sounded like you wanted to make it clear that we were really in the way of people who liked MO's having fun, so we should leave.. Not only that, but you said it in quite a hostile manner...

4. Yeah, but people have to bitch about the problems so that you can put them to rest...

***Alcar*** · #45 06-10-2002, 02:17 AM

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Originally posted by Dragadon
I don't think anyone here hates MO, just disappointed with it. BIG difference. And as I said in my last post (which you seemed to have ignored...not saying you did...) peeps that didn't like OW and/or MO would not have lasted long here (because they would have been either banned or left on their own).(1)
Besides..we already know the reasons OWI did this or that with what we don't like...but that doesn't stop us from voicing our opinions about it...so they can hear them.(2)

Edit: Problems CAN'T be put to rest...not in MO at least. The problems with MO are there to stay. That's why we voice our opinions so OWI doesn't make the same mistakes with ME and the future OW games. (3)

1. Well your still here, and so are the others.

2. I understand that, but some of the problems people have with the game are not understandable.

3. Everyone with problems, if you want to put them to good use and not be nagged by saying them please go to this topic and contribute: http://www.oddworldforums.net/forums...&threadid=5165

Melvin:squeeking paramite · #46 06-10-2002, 02:22 AM

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Originally posted by Alcar
1. Well your still here, and so are the others.

1. Hey, wait now... She said that people who hated OW would have left. We don't hate OW/MO, we were just disappointed with MO, that's all. Actually, I think someone who even HATED MO could still stay here and like OW.

Sl'askia · #47 06-10-2002, 02:23 AM

1: I am still here because I am hoping ME will be better and have all the things that were going to be in MO in it. (Not to mention all the friends I have made here.) I am sure a good percentage of those that didn't like MO are staying for the same reasons.

2: Such as?

3: Would...but by now all my concerns would have been voiced...

Jacob · #48 06-10-2002, 07:43 PM

Ok;

So, i haven't played MO and yet ive heard alot of bad press etc off the people here (Who, i actually believe more than the true gaming reviewers (Oh the shame)) But im still gonna buy it. Also, Alcar, toilet humour is something related to the toilet in an attempt to be funny...breaking wind is usually done in the lavatory and thus is connected to the toilet. Merely adding 'Breath' is a pure attempt to make it laughable...which its not.

Also, Danny is not 'Pulling my strings' he said "Should do" and i said "Try to" he merely reminded me that they should be focusing their games to the teen factor since many teens are the reason AO & AE was so popular.

And Alcar...dance.

Danny · #49 06-11-2002, 09:14 PM

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Originally posted by Alcar
1. You can't know that for sure, there are many more thousands of people who have bought MO, and just haven't signed up. You can't judge it on this forums population ages.

I didn't say we did know that for sure, but it's a reasonable assumption that the forums are a representative slice of the Oddworld-playing population of the world. In fact, those who like oddworld but aren't on the forums are probably more likely to be younger than us than older, since it would be younger people who would have consoles but no internet access... (And no, I'm not saying that all oddworld fans with internet access are on the forums, but surely you can comprehend the point I am making here...)

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2. What allows you to decide what is infatile toilet humour? Like i've said, others would percieve it differently.

And like I said, the people who percieve it differently are almost exclusively Children.

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3. Nope.

Yup.

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4. Some of them.

If we had a survey asking who was pleased with MO and their age, I am prepared to bet my left liver that almost all of those who were happy with MO would be the younger fans.

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I understand that, but other people have those other arguments.

Then don't argue with them having just quoted me!

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some of the problems people have with the game are not understandable.

Like what?

Brew Master · #50 06-11-2002, 09:54 PM

Halo has sold over a million copies...MO has not...but AO and AE has...hmmmmmm..

If a game causes this much controversy, about wether its good or bad...obviously its not great.

ME will be better....After reading this topic All I have to say now is "WOW".....

MojoMan220 · #51 06-11-2002, 11:02 PM

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Originally posted by Brew Master
Halo has sold over a million copies...MO has not...but AO and AE has...hmmmmmm..

If a game causes this much controversy, about wether its good or bad...obviously its not great.

ME will be better....After reading this topic All I have to say now is "WOW".....

Considering that only about five people have actually participated actively in this thread, you can't tell if these people stand for many unsatisfied buyers or just a few who decided to exppress their problems with the game. Some of these people haven't even played the game. I thought MO was great, but I'm sure ME will be even better.

P.S. Why does your avater and banner say Brew Master when you have Phleg on them.

Brew Master · #52 06-12-2002, 01:33 PM

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P.S. Why does your avater and banner say Brew Master when you have Phleg on them.

Phleg looks cooler than him, maybe he took over the brewery after Brew Master...becoming the new Brew Master! Plus Phleg has 3 times the Flavor. Lately I've been drinking SObE like a crack fiend, I think the SObE drink is actually very good! Anyway many members of this Forum have names that don't match their avatar. Plus I think a new Brew Master joined recently thats using the true Avatar.

Fudashi · #53 06-12-2002, 03:34 PM

Alright, I will plainly admit that I have not played MO, so I can't comment on it. I could easily formulate an opinion about the game from what I have read here, but heresay is a poor substitute for first hand experience.

My problem with MO, not having played the game, is precisely that it is exclusively on the X-Box. But this is not because I am disgruntled that I have to buy an X-Box in order to play the game. My reasons are different entirely. Let me explain...

The first two games were a commentary on the world and the way it is run. Sure, gross exagerations were used in order to get the point across and the familiar planet earth we recognize was warped almost out of recognition, but the message was there nonetheless. AO and AE made clear anti-capitalist statements. A modern analogue to the games would be a Native American with a terrible factory job blowing up manufactering plants and breweries while getting in touch with his shamanistic roots.

And then, Oddworld Inhabitants signs a contract with Microsoft, the modern evil empire of big business, a company devoted to wiping out the competition by any means necessary and making as much money as possible. If the first two games had different themes (ie. you are a slig who has to stop mutinous mudokons who are kidnapping, torturing, and killing your glukkon bosses), I wouldn't have given the development a second thought. But Microsoft is a company that embraces one of the very values that AE and especially AO so bitterly condemned.

Therefore, no matter how faithful MO is to the message Oddworld sent with its first two games, it is ultimately a sham. If Greenpeace started accepting donations from irresponsible logging companies, they would not be taken seriously anymore. Similiary, the Oddworld games have lost their poignancy, their depth. While they once made bold statements with far-reaching implications, now they are just diversions for those with some spare time on their hands.

And that, Alcar, is why I am disgruntled with MO.

P.S. This may be old news, but I have not been in touch with developments in the world of Odd, and thus for me it is a new issue. If someone has already said the same thing I apologize.