I Have Just Seen... VI

[Wings of Fire]

I may have played that, but I never said I particuarly liked it.

You were more than willing to talk about it though, you appreciated it.

[Manco]

There’s anime nerdchat happening, let me go grab my rolled-up newspaper.

[MeechMunchie]

You were more than willing to talk about it though, you appreciated it.

I suppose. It was the sheer... well, absurdity of the premise that got me playing. It was by no means perfect in execution, but the fact that anything resembling a coherent plot came out of that mess of a concept is downright impressive.

So yeah. I appreciate his skills, whatever they may be. I wouldn't say (from the limited amount I've seen of him) the man is a great writer, but kudos to him for having a startlingly vivid imagination.

I don't think Bullet Magnet should watch Madoka, though. He might be offended by the perpetual motion system.

[Bullet Magnet]

It takes a lot to make me cry.

[Wings of Fire]

It takes a lot to make me cry.

We sort of don't like to talk about it.

Remember, just about everything on that page is a spoiler and we've got at least one person here head-ing into the series relatively unspoiled. So if you must rage, please use spoiler tags.

[Mac Sirloin]

Yeah, after reading that I'm going to go watch Akira, inject heroin into my ballsack and kill myself. Magical Aliens used to fucking mean something, man. I know that I'm not the target audience but my goodness that is basically a summation of why I don't pay attention to anime.

I just watched Hellboy for the first time in like four or five years. It's still pretty okay, but the CG really hasn't aged well over the last 9 years.

[Wings of Fire]

I know that I'm not the target audience

Um, actually age-wise you are.

Also I know you're speaking Kasterese which is 95% hyperbole but holy shit Akira is a massively overrated pile of nonsensical fuck and this at least is competently directed. Hell, even my mum enjoyed it.

[Sekto Springs]

Jesus, WoF, you reek of pretentiousness right now. More than usual.

[Mac Sirloin]

Nope, I'm not doing this. You are not convincing me that your magical girl anime, no matter how hard it attempts to bust the genre with emotionally manipulative pseudoscience, is better than Akira. I didn't read 6 gigantofuck 40$ apiece collections over the course of the last 3 years just to be told it's senseless. Especially compared to something that sounds like it was written in half a day by some drunk autistic people to be minutely atypical of the magical girl genre.

I'm not saying it doesn't sound different than the usual magical girl fare (of which I admit I am no expert), but not nearly enough to avoid being just as retarded on my end as Akira seems to be on yours. I stick to my 80's and 90's dumb-as-hell cyberpunk guns, thankyew very much.

And humor me, what part of Akira doesn't make sense? It's always been pretty clear to me.

[Mr. Bungle]

The only anime(animes? idk) I've ever really enjoyed were Cowboy Bebop and Desert Punk.
I also haven't watched much anime at all.

[Sekto Springs]

Saying Akira is overrated is like saying Bladerunner is overrated. It was a culturally significant game-changer and trope-namer the likes of which had never been seen prior to it's conception. It's only considered overrated because a thousand other things have copied it since, and it creates this backwards roundabout where viewers think the original is boring and the copycat is fresh.

Also, the plot of Akira makes perfect sense. Why does everyone say it doesn't? Like what exactly are you not getting?

[Wings of Fire]

Saying Akira is overrated is like saying Bladerunner is overrated. It was a culturally significant game-changer and trope-namer the likes of which had never been seen prior to it's conception.

Right, and I bet you think the same about GITS, huh? Both of these shows are massively overrated in the west because they were the first time the west had seen an intelligent mature piece of animation without the name 'Don Bluth' attached. I saw GITS back when I was too young to understand it, and thought it was incredible. I saw it again a few weeks ago and apart from that absolutely beautiful night walking scene, it did nothing for me. It was simply talking heads and naked chests being overly pretentious about philosophy without really going anywhere and with no real answer or resolution at the end.

The plot of Akira is straightforward. It's just the pace of the movie that makes it a super contrived clusterfuck. That's what you get when you attempt to condense a fucking huge manga like that into one movie.

Especially compared to something that sounds like it was written in half a day by some drunk autistic people to be minutely atypical of the magical girl genre.

heh

And people call me pretentious. I wish I had half as much confidence talking about shit I know nothing about. Wait, no, I forget. This is the age of wikipedia. Trashing the series based on a page I linked in jest thoroughly debasing the worst plot point of said series (Which is brought up once), written by fans of the series is apparently acceptable.

I'm not saying 80s/90s cyberpunk gore'n'gunfests are bad. They're fun, but you should really learn to look past the AM I KAWAII UGUU (Which has always been the driving force of anime, like it or not, even back in the 70s) to see the more recent gems. For a start, and this is something the majority of people who doom-say anime has gotten objectively worse like to forget, the GITS tv series was released on the 00s. That's good. Much better than the movie. Things actually happen.

Also holy shit how am I being pretentious? I'm not pretending anything. I know what I'm talking about.

[Sekto Springs]

I assume you mean Ghost in The Shell. No I never liked it, in fact, I can't stand it. The TV series especially.

'GITS' sounds like a good name for a Britcom, though.

The plot of Akira is straightforward. It's just the pace of the movie that makes it a super contrived clusterfuck. That's what you get when you attempt to condense a fucking huge manga like that into one movie.

If you say so. I think the pacing in most Japanese films kind of sucks though, and again, that's probably because they have a different system of storytelling from the West. Some of Miyazaki's films have this issue too.

[Wings of Fire]

If you say so. I think the pacing in most Japanese films kind of sucks though, and again, that's probably because they have a different system of storytelling from the West. Some of Miyazaki's films have this issue too.

Well Japanese drama theory is four acts, while western drama theory is three acts. I do kind of agree with you that Japanese films have sucky pacing though.

Speaking of a Miyazaki film with sucky pacing. Holy shit, Howl's Moving Castle. I like it, but it's one of those rare things where just about everything I can say about it past the art and musical direction is criticism. I hate not being able to explain why I like something.

[Sekto Springs]

Yeah, that one in particular... I just had no idea what the fuck was going on. I want to say that Japanese films need more "little moments" to flesh out characters. Thing is, they already have plenty of these, but they don't usually go anywhere - or worse - they contradict the way the characters behaved in other scenes they shared.

[Vyrien]

Have you ever seen Paprika? I still can't decide if it has great pacing or awful pacing and some of the plot points are confusing as fuck but it manages to be enjoyable nontheless.

[Sekto Springs]

The Japanese are experts at getting you to like something based solely on the art because they generally suck at the more subtle and cohesive stuff. Even Japan's most successful, artful dramas are cartoonishly fatalist.

[Wings of Fire]

The Japanese are experts at getting you to like something based solely on the art because they generally suck at the more subtle and cohesive stuff. Even Japan's most successful, artful dramas are cartoonishly fatalist.

Well, no. That's not fair. Anime as a medium's strength is in its characters. Plots may suck, morals may be twisted and writing may be hackneyed, but characters are generally colorful and endearing.

Though I will say that's at least partly due to the art and the voice acting industry in Japan being very good. It's much easier to like a character if they're well acted and visually appealing.

[Sekto Springs]

Japan? Known for subtle characters?

I dunno. I find almost all characters in anime to be two-dimensional, overly dramatic, or just plain stupid. I'm sure some of their endearing qualities gets lost in translation, as I've only ever watched dubs, but I refuse to believe that re-watching these shows in Japanese would be a significantly different experience.

Thing about Japanese character writing is that all the standard character archetypes needed to drive the story are present, they're just amped up to 11. That's not subtle. It can be endearing, yes, but in the same way having clowns throwing pies at your face is endearing. I have never seen Japan produce anything subtle... or even clever. I'm not saying they haven't, just that I haven't seen it. I've seen a few things by them that started out clever, but wound up being convoluted and hackneyed instead.

[Manco]

It was simply talking heads and naked chests being overly pretentious about philosophy without really going anywhere and with no real answer or resolution at the end.

much like your posting

[Wings of Fire]

Japan? Known for subtle characters?

I dunno. I find almost all characters in anime to be two-dimensional, overly dramatic, or just plain stupid. I'm sure some of their endearing qualities gets lost in translation, as I've only ever watched dubs, but I refuse to believe that re-watching these shows in Japanese would be a significantly different experience.

Thing about Japanese character writing is that all the standard character archetypes needed to drive the story are present, they're just amped up to 11. That's not subtle. It can be endearing, yes, but in the same way having clowns throwing pies at your face is endearing. I have never seen Japan produce anything subtle... or even clever. I'm not saying they haven't, just that I haven't seen it. I've seen a few things by them that started out clever, but wound up being convoluted and hackneyed instead.

If I was to name the best character in anime that most people have seen, it would be Lady Eboshi from Princess Mononoke. Everything about her felt wonderful.

Also I don't really know how you would do 'subtle' characters without prose narration. A movie called 5cm per Second is generally stated to have amazing and beautiful subtlety in it, but really it mostly bored me.

[Mac Sirloin]

Also holy shit how am I being pretentious? I'm not pretending anything. I know what I'm talking about.

Well, I could say you're pretending (to yourself) that I'm going to seriously approach the subject of anime with a god damn zealot like you. I was this close to using DBZ instead of Akira but that's too easy. Please, vomit some more magical girl rhetoric for us all to enjoy. And if the need to call us "PHILLISTINES!!!!" in all caps suddenly arises, do not hesitate. You just go for it brother. Us baka gaijins plebian tastes cannot compete with your refined flavour of magical girls. Also, I'm going to call you a pedophile for liking these and see where that takes me. You filthy pedophile, how can you live with yourself watching magical girl butts? For shame, you pedophile dracula babykiller.

[Vyrien]

I found Higurashi and Umineko to have excellent character development, I personally prefer Umineko for its subtly complex side characters and intellectual story, although there are elements of this in Higurashi too. The plot does have a tendency to be confusing and the male leads of the series are both pretty irritating at first though.

Sadly, a good deal of the fleshing out of characters is left out of the anime adaptations and Studio DEEN's animation quality is appalling. Music is brilliant in both however.

Edit: holy shit this feels out of place after that last post

[Mac Sirloin]

If you think about it, it really doesn't.

[Bullet Magnet]

Well, now I'm crying.

[Mr. Bungle]

I'm watching the new episode of The Simpsons. Man has this how been in the shitter. Over a decade, now.

[Sekto Springs]

Also I don't really know how you would do 'subtle' characters without prose narration. A movie called 5cm per Second is generally stated to have amazing and beautiful subtlety in it, but really it mostly bored me.

I think this statement is a good summation of our difference in taste. Subtlety bores you, at least in this instance. Part of why you like anime because the parts that should be subtle are not, and this makes it more palatable.

This is also why I do not enjoy anime (or most things from Japan), because it is in your face. All the time. That's not to say that the characters lack the potential to be complex or interesting, they're just usually completely upfront with those complexities and motivations, and that makes it cartoony and predictable. You're right to cite Lady Eboshi as one of the few exceptions. And some of the characters in Paranoia Agent were really good too.

[MA]

ANIME

ANIMU

ANIMO

ANICUNT

[Mr. Bungle]

Anigay

too much of it in this thread for me.

[Sekto Springs]

I watched an old favorite of mine "Waking Ned Devine". Brilliant film, and goddamned hilarious. I recommend it to anyone who wants to see a naked septuagenarian riding a motorcycle.



I also watched Grumpy Old Men. Another good'n. I guess you could say I watched some very wrinkly films today.