Good Ol' Fashioned God Debate

[Lord Stanley]

I have found that Christians are the most satisfied of people on earth, because we know that personal possessions are not everything. That's why superstars end up committing suicide, because once they have everything they could ever want, there's nothing left.

And anyway, who wants to become One with Nature?

[Nate]

The famous scientist Blaise Pascal spent several days wondering whether he should become an atheist or a Christian, and looked at it from a pragmatic standpoint. In the end, he decided thus:

If he became an atheist and atheism was right, he would spend his whole life fighting against the idea of God and die and gain nothing.

If he became a Christian and Christianity was right, he would spend his whole life fighting for God and die and gain everlasting glory in paradise.

That's why, even if God does not exist, isn't it better to live life with the hope of something to come afterward, instead of just trying to convince people that there is really nothing? I'm a Christian, and proud of it.

That only works if the choice is between atheism and Christianity. It also only works if you actually have to 'fight against the idea of God'. Given the massive number of religions in this world and the sheer comparitive ease of being an atheist, I'm gonna choose atheism.

I have found that Christians are the most satisfied of people on earth, because we know that personal possessions are not everything. That's why superstars end up committing suicide, because once they have everything they could ever want, there's nothing left.

And anyway, who wants to become One with Nature?

You haven't met many Bhuddists, right? Or, you know, anyone pretty much who isn't Christian?

Except that they aren't, they're using cosmological and subatomic observations to create models in an attempt to explain it, and aren't claiming to have an answer yet. It's much more useful than proclaiming it to be unknowable and teaching that as wisdom.

True, but my point was rather that Science isn't capable of answering all questions and that some of the foundations of physics are taken on faith simply because we don't know the answers yet.

Perhaps I should have used the example of String Theory instead; it's ultimately unprovable and unfalsifiable but it fits the facts of the universe as we know it and people are prepared to fight for their belief in it.

[Scraby]

people worshiped sun,when the first human stretched,as the language started to evolve,they callled it god,the human saviour the light in the sky,thats the explanation that every god on this planet has a sun behind his head,afther that they started drawing people,calling them gods and worshiping them,an example,the god of egypt ra has a sun disk on his head representing sun as god,ppl where that stupid when they first stretched out to walk like humans today,that they worshipped everything,sun rain fire rock,anything...

[Nate]

What the hell are you on about?

[Lord Stanley]

If being an atheist is so easy, Nate, why are you arguing for it?

Actually, I have met a lot of non-Christians. Like all these people in the thread that are against it.

Why be an atheist if you won't gain anything when you die? You still fight for the religion of nothing, and gain nothing.

Mohammed's religion is actually a combination of a bunch of others. Mohammed, a man who had heard a lot about a bunch of different religions but did not know the fundamentals of any of them, created a religion that appealed to his taste: in effect, worship me, Mohammed, and this god I just made up (Allah) and you'll get a sinful paradise that you can enjoy, where women are worthless. Why would any women want to be a Muslim? Not that I am one, but I can't understand their thinking.

[Scraby]

every religion has its own side effects

[Lord Stanley]

Scraby, what are you? Do Scrabs have a religion or do they just mock all the others?

[T-nex]

Lots of gibberish

Atheists don't fight for nothing. They fight for the truth and against ignorance, which ultimately hurts people more than it does good.

Also, who said atheists believe in nothing? There are Agnostics aswell... And Atheists who simply wont dare assume they know the truth about things they have no proof of.

Some religious people on the other hand, will blindly believe in religion because it's comforting, despite it being disproved and questioned against in so many ways.

Really.. Atheists wouldn't care much either(well many of them wouldn't I guess.. I can't speak for everyone), if it wasn't for the fact that religion has so much negative power over the world.

[Lord Stanley]

I will agree to the fact that Islam does a lot of damage to the world. It is a religion of violence rather than peace.

But why would you fight against ignorance? If atheism is true, it's not like you'll gain anything more than I do after we die because you're right and I'm wrong, whereas if Christianity is right, I will gain something more.

And, yes, everyone cares about making it ahead in this life. I try my best to make a living like everyone else - but I don't shove people down to push myself up. Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone cared about helping each other, instead of insisting that morals are pointless and everyone is free to murder as much as they want?

[Lord Stanley]

No replies in 12 minutes...does that mean you're tired of arguing?

[OANST]

1. Don't double post.

2. Swallow your fucking nonsense, and go back to sleep. It's where you do your best thinking.

[Lord Stanley]

OANST, this thread is just about people arguing. Do we have your permission to request it to be closed, before we all start to hate each other?

[T-nex]

I will agree to the fact that Islam does a lot of damage to the world. It is a religion of violence rather than peace.

But why would you fight against ignorance? If atheism is true, it's not like you'll gain anything more than I do after we die because you're right and I'm wrong, whereas if Christianity is right, I will gain something more.

And, yes, everyone cares about making it ahead in this life. I try my best to make a living like everyone else - but I don't shove people down to push myself up. Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone cared about helping each other, instead of insisting that morals are pointless and everyone is free to murder as much as they want?

Now you're just being a closeminded ... thing.
Islam isn't any more destructive than Christianity. Thousands of people have died on the hands of Christians too.

Why would I fight against ignorance? Funny question.
You're exactly that type of person, aren't you? Afraid of death..l Wishing that you don't just end when you die. Why did you choose islam? What if some other religion is true instead, and thus you end up in some shitty situation when you die cos you didn't follow that religion? What if Islam truly is the real religion?
That type of argument doesn't work, and it really just shows you're into cos because you're afraid/it's comforting.

But the trouble is that many people, once they've settled into a religion, they don't give a crap about anything else anymore. They stop evolving mentally, cos as long as they follow a set of rules, or repent their wrong-doings, they get an eternity and heaven-strawberries.
A lot of people hate gays because their religion tells them to. Is that fair? Does that sound like anything like a peaceful religion?
A lot of people are actively trying to strip people of freedom, because their religion tells that freedom is bad.

If religious people didn't interfere with other people's personal preferences and freedom, no one would mind them. Theough we'd probably still try to inform the masses.


You can't just say: Ima believe in religion, cos I want something after death. I wanna believe in Santa too, because then I may get presents for Christmas. if I don't believe in him at all, I may get none =(
Doesn't that sound stupid?

Please, if you believe in religion, have a valid reason at least... Like.. Talking to Jesus in your dreams or something.

EDIT: Also, really.. DON'T double post unless you have something super-valid to add... Otherwise Nate will do stuff.

Also.. Don't be like those impatient people who expect replies every 10 mins.

EDIT EDIT: Are there actually any numbers on which religions are the violent? That show approximately how many people died on hand of which religions? I'm trying to google search it, but I'm not finding anything fact based x_x

[Wings of Fire]

I caught 'Why do you fight against atheism?' somewhere in that mound of steaming shit.

I'm fighting against the stupid 'Lol I'm atheist and I know this argument so I'm smarter than you' mentality. It's really droll.

[Nate]

If being an atheist is so easy, Nate, why are you arguing for it?

Because it's so easy. What's your point?

Why be an atheist if you won't gain anything when you die? You still fight for the religion of nothing, and gain nothing.

Like I said before, being atheist means I don't have to fight, and what I gain is plenty of freedom in this life.

I will agree to the fact that Islam does a lot of damage to the world. It is a religion of violence rather than peace.

Amazingly, that is the most ignorant thing you've said in this thread. You clearly don't know shit about Islam.

But why would you fight against ignorance? If atheism is true, it's not like you'll gain anything more than I do after we die because you're right and I'm wrong, whereas if Christianity is right, I will gain something more.

Why do you focus so much about death and not about life?

And, yes, everyone cares about making it ahead in this life. I try my best to make a living like everyone else - but I don't shove people down to push myself up. Wouldn't the world be a better place if everyone cared about helping each other, instead of insisting that morals are pointless and everyone is free to murder as much as they want?

You really think that having religion is the only way to be moral in life? If anything, atheists are more moral than religious people because they do good because it's simply the right thing to do, not because they're expecting some sort of reward.

You might find this article interesting. It's about how to find morality withour religion.

[Wings of Fire]

Oh!

I found a great way to find morality without religion, it's called living your life.

[Lord Stanley]

What people have died on the hands of the Christians? Do Christian nations kill Muslims and prevent other religions from existing?

Muslim countries do, however. Christians are killed every day, because in countries like Pakistan, North Korea, etc., being a Christian is considered being a death sentence.

I believe in Christianity because not only is it best pragmatically (as you have pointed out, this cannot be the only reason) but also because all human beings are born with the knowledge that God is real and that all have sinned against Him. My conscience dictates that I follow His word, and I cannot go against my conscience. If atheism is true, then there is no real right and wrong. But if it is true, then it is God who has given men a conscience and a sense of right and wrong, and men's natural sin tells them to argue against their conscience and invent anything that people will believe other than the true God.

Thank you for reading my arguments. If there is proof presented against Christianity that totally drives my conscience into the ground, I will repent of my folly. But until then, I will advocate for Christ and His cause. I do not say these things to offend anyone, but because I believe they are true.

Please do not curse at me, because I will not curse back.

[Wings of Fire]

What people have died on the hands of the Christians? Do Christian nations kill Muslims and prevent other religions from existing?.

Start here.

[OANST]

What people have died on the hands of the Christians? Do Christian nations kill Muslims and prevent other religions from existing?

Hundreds of thousands?

Yes? Yes. A thousand times, yes.

[Wings of Fire]

If we're counting indirect deaths you can count a lot of Africans too.

[Nate]

What people have died on the hands of the Christians? Do Christian nations kill Muslims and prevent other religions from existing?

You are joking, right? Have you ever heard of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Blood Libels, lynch mobs... the list goes on. Seriously... time to buy a history book.

I believe in Christianity because not only is it best pragmatically

Why?! You are yet to explain this point.




Oh, and more general point: Anyone reading this thread would have good reason to be confused, seeing as I have been in the position of defending both religion and atheism, sometimes in the same post.

I am an atheist, but I come from a religious background and I have a great deal of respect for people who are capable of having faith in something bigger than themselves. What I loathe, on the other hand, is small-minded little twerps who can't look beyond the end of their own noses and thus give religion the bad name that requires me to step in and defend it.

[Lord Stanley]

I read that article, Nate, and that guy is basically just saying "I'm against religion, so I can enjoy everything in life, even the sinful, lustful pleasures of it, and you can't argue against me because I ignore everyone else." To me, that guy seems to be the ignorant one.

The Crusades were fought against Muslims, people who had already conquered and killed thousands of Christians in the Holy Land. No, the Crusades were not fully just, but too many people confuse "Roman Catholicism" with "Christianity." The Roman Catholics are not true Christians because they do not believe the fundamental truths based in the Bible.

And yes, too many people call themselves Christians just to get money, like televangelists. They are not true Christians at all. The only true Christians are the ones that believe the fundamentals of the Bible and practice them in their lives.

[Wings of Fire]

NO TRUE CHRISTIAN WOULD BUTCHER THOUSANDS OF MUSLIMS

[Lord Stanley]

Agreed, Wings of Fire. True Christians are the ones who go into Muslim countries and try to convert them rather than kill them.

[Wings of Fire]

And dissuade everyone they can find from using condoms or medicine whilst infecting them with their western diseases.

[Lord Stanley]

I have no idea what you're talking about, Wings of Fire. Many times Christians bring medicines along with their Bibles, to help the people in the Eastern countries who don't have the European/American wealth.

[T-nex]

And dissuade everyone they can find from using condoms or medicine whilst infecting them with their western diseases.

And banning homoseuality and butt-secks!! We can't go on without butt-secks =(

[Lord Stanley]

Yes, because those are sinful. They are guilty pleasures rather than conscience-allowed pleasures.

[T-nex]

Yes, because those are sinful. They are guilty pleasures rather than conscience-allowed pleasures.

See this is what I hate about religion. There is absolutely nothing harmful about homosexuality and butt-secks, yet some religious people like to pretend to. I also wouldn't care if they just kept it to themselves, and didn't try to ban it. Just live and let live, you know? If you think being gay is sinful, then avoid being gay. Well if you are gay, you're in for a ride. Otherwise let other people find their happiness.

[Lord Stanley]

See, this is what I hate about non-religious people: they have no moral basis at all and believe they are free to do whatever they want. Yeah, go out and murder someone, you say, because I can't argue against you, in your opinion.