Darwinism vs. Fundamentalism

[Statikk HDM]

These kind of topics are like Seinfield episodes:Entertaining yet pointless. Hey look, another religious topic, yeah!!Let's keep it going people efine fundamentalism and discuss it's pros and cons. Man, I used to hate this type of topic and now I can't get enuff of 'em!

[abe22]

I think the only thing that seperates animals from humans is that we talk in words they can talk but we can't talk in their magical language. We have no evindence that they DON'T have a religion or they cry and laugh No evindence at all at least what I've heard.

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

Originally posted by Rettick:
1. I didn't even mention the Food Chain. Pay attention.

2. I will ignore this comment, and thus scuttle your attempts to turn this into a juvenile insult-hurling competition...

3. Umm... Because of the Evidence, maybe?

4. Do you honestly think that they would let a shark into pre-school? Your example prove nothing except that you clearly do not listen to anything anyone says...

5. At least I made a statement that was relevant, realistic, and reasonable. Let's see you attempt even 2 of those at once...

6. Nobody's perfect...

7. I would comment on this, but I can't see the screen very well from where I'm rolling around on the floor laughing...

Now can you please stop trying to score cheap points against me and actually defend your own argument. Where is the Evidence for Creationism that we've heard so much about?

1. You did, get glasses.

2. LOL, what a hypocrite you are. Your a loser. *ROFL*

3. Um duh that's a stupid reply.

4. Shows that you know, your lack of listening and comprehension is making me sick. You did'nt even explain my reply correctly and you said some detail that was off topic.

5.Hahahah, your funny

6. Duuuuuuuuuhhhhhh!

7. No, your just blind.

8. You don't have evidence on creation or how humans were made or animals. Where's that information so smart man?

[Sl'askia]

*sighs* OY! You two are as stubborn as mules....*takes Pinky's and Dan's heads and smacks them together* Maybe that would knock some sense into you...

(sorry...just HAD to let that out...)

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

*rubs head* Ooooooooowwaaaaaaaa! Thanks for getting rid of that itch on my head though!

I will stop if Rettick stops acting like a mean man!

[MudokonOddball]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear....

This is just silly. How long was I gone? And I said specifically not to bicker over who was right and who was wrong. I think that you guys need to DROP it, and just move on with your lives. I bet everyone in this thread a new shiny penny that Pinky and Rettick left their computers REALLY mad when they got done typing.

Okay, moving on...First and foremost, dinosaurs. They were there. Some peeps don't believe us, EVEN with the bones in the ground, they just won't belive they were ever there. Let's leave it at that.

Also, the NOVA (or "Horizon"...i don't really care at this point) NAILED the spiritual decoding of the Bible thing. It's as if the people that wrote the Bible wrote it down in code or something...

You just don't understand the bible and what it's telling you. The bible talks in spirit. But you won't know that...

...which actually is a fair possibility, but I prefer to stay with my original belief that they "tell it like it is". or, rather "told it like it was", with humanly-justifiable exaggerations of course.

Next, Adam and Eve. RoN_Rancor, I agree with you completely. Evolution, at least I think, was, is, and forever shall be precise and gradual. I think that evolution is a way for species to change themselves to confer with the environment. And the term adaptation, if memory serves me right, means something like "personal evolution". When we learn a new word, we have adapted to the conversationalists around us. Not the whole species.

Finally, I would address humans being "the chosen ones." Well, no, I don't think that God right off the bat chose US. Maybe He kinda closed His eyes (or, whatever He has) and stuck his finger down, and it turned out to be humans. I think that he wanted to create powerful, adaptable creatures that would eventually become a malevolent species to take care of the Earth, so that He could move on to making another Nebula. His first attempt was dinosaurs. They, well...sucked. They were "pessimists" (oo, big word!!). They stomped, destroyed and ate. Maybe He chose out some of them and sorta left the T-Rexes to do what they wanted, and kinda focused on moulding the Triceratopses. Anyways, I think He made a big comet, plowed them all over, and then made the ice age so He could start anew, and eventually He ended up with us.

Pinky, Rettick, if your still mad at each other, be the better man and walk away. Just don't say anymore, and if you want to continue replying in this topic, please address each other like everyone else, kindly sharing and contrasting views with one another.

PS: I have more to say, but ST NextGen is on...

[Sydney]

The only significant difference between humans and other animals is that humans build upon and store their knowledge. Remove our clothes, destroy our cities and burn our books: we're hairless apes. Perhaps we are the dominate creature on the planet, but that's no reason to declare with especial pride that other animals have no conscience. If you share your house with pets you should be aware of this. The line between us and them is not clearly defined.

Pinkhaired and Rettick, I don't mind you two debating. I enjoy these discussions. But please, both of you should know by now that slipping personal insults into your posts does little to heighten your argument.

Pinkhaired, I've brought this up before in a previous discussion. How do you explain techniques using Mitochondrial DNA as evidence for evolution? As I've said, Mitochondria are organelles existing in each of our cells possessing their own DNA, they're only pased on through the mother as they're already present in the female gamete, but not the sperm. The rate of mutation in Mitochondrial DNA is known, so they can compare the differences in Mitochondrial DNA in two people, pinpointing the time at which they diverged. The method has been proven correct, so how do you explain that this same method has compared the Mitochondrial DNA in a chimpanzee and a human, calculating that we shared a common ancestor five million years ago?

[Majic]

you cant neccesarily think that other creatures dont talk, communicate or understand us. I mean, why can we tame animals? because they knwo we take care of them. i must myself go with someone or somehting, the higher lifeforms we call gods, designated a path to start us then let us go our own ways. There is nothing to say that there arent other creatures anywhere else that dont think like us or are sentient. there aer always possibilities of anything, i mean how would we know if we were being controled if we were hypnotyzed (sp...)..... would you? how would you know if you have seeen a ufo and been drugged by the government to not remember it? there are things we know and odnt know, but the universe hasnt existed forever. in fact its almost painful to try and think how and when everyting did get created, i mean is there an eternity? there had to be a starting point somewhere if everything eventually led into a big bang. so where did that come from? where did it start. animals (including us) are just systoms of atoms that cooperate to preform a task, but why do we think? does soemone help us? maybe an individual god helper person for each of us. there are just endless possibilities as to why everything started when it did, i mean for a chain of events for the gib bang started somewhere and we think and have become what we are for a reason.if there was more powerful lifeform it had to have started somewhere, originated because can there just be something such as an eternity like that? its just mid-boggling the way everything is and how it is suppose to be, why we do what we do and such. there of course is a reason for everyone and everything, so what have we done? provided a tool or a living mass for gods, lifeless spirits and such? it just kinda makes ou wonder.............

[Sl'askia]

Demonakos: Yeesssss mortal....you are all nothing but play things to us! MWHAHAHAHHAHA-ACK! *gets whacked in the head with a massive frying pan*

Annoying pest...

Back to the topic, I have always wondered what happens to your consciousness when you die...does to move on to a new life? Or does it simply cease to exist all together? I am hoping it is the first one...
Things like this almost always send a chill down my spine when I think of them....

Demonakos: BAH! your souls we do as we please with! *gets whacked again*

I still haven't found that eraser...oh and for those that don't know...Demonakos is one of my evil God characters...God of Chaos to be exact.

Demonakos: *beams* and proud of it too!

*looks at her pan and sees a bunch of dents in it* This is not working....

[Gluk Schmuck]

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:

Your not intelligent........

Not compared to you with your bad grammar!

Originally posted by MudokonOddball:

They stomped, destroyed and ate.

So what's different with humans?

Originally posted by Majic_Abe:

you cant neccesarily think that other creatures dont talk, communicate or understand us. I mean, why can we tame animals? because they knwo we take care of them.

I saw a documentary about how an ape was taught sign language, it understood the human signer. This is stong evidence that animals can understand language.
Humans can tame animals because humans either care for them or because humans will abuse them if they don't comply.

[Sydney]

Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck (directed at Pinkhaired):
Not compared to you with your bad grammar!

Did you read what I said in my previous post!?

[Gluk Schmuck]

Originally posted by Sydney:

Did you read what I said in my previous post!?

Sorry, it was just too tempting...
Anyway, you told everyone off before and they still keep flaming, if I can't beat them (because they don't listen) then I may as well keep up the flames...

We should get a debate judge to judge certain debates and award points for good arguments and deduct them for flaming then they post the points every so often. I think that would be an interesting idea

[MudokonOddball]

Okay, this is fascinating:
I watched another episode of the NOVA or Horizon (it was like #5 in the 12 part series) and they demonstrated another interesting point, which is this: Humans have developed a specific area in our brain that concurs with our need for a diety or god. They have pinpointed the area that is active when we pray or engage in conversation about God or the Bible.

I thought that this was very interesting, and would like to hear what you guys have to say about this as well. I'd like to say a few things, too, but I want to hear what you think, first.

[Gluk Schmuck]

That's interesting...
It explains the reason why so many people are religious and stay religious after being given LOTS of evidence to support theories opposing their religion's.

It's as interesting as how it's been 'proved' that praying for people makes them better. I don't know the exact condidtions of the experiments but it's still a pretty interesting finding.

[Danny]

I'm sorry for allowing myself to be drawn, but I tried to argue reasonably, and I don't think I actually resorted to simple insult-throwing at any point... I argued each of Pinky's points individually, and managed not to just insult her [even in the face of extreme temptation ], not matter how much she flamed me...

Originally posted by Mudokon Oddball:
I think that evolution is a way for species to change themselves to confer with the environment.

No 'think' about it; that's practically the definition of Evolution...

Originally posted by Mudokon Oddball:
Finally, I would address humans being "the chosen ones." Well, no, I don't think that God right off the bat chose US. Maybe He kinda closed His eyes (or, whatever He has) and stuck his finger down, and it turned out to be humans. I think that he wanted to create powerful, adaptable creatures that would eventually become a malevolent species to take care of the Earth, so that He could move on to making another Nebula.

So you believe in God, then, and you believe that Humans were designed to be how we are, we didn't just evolve this way? This sounds provokative, looking back, but it isn't intended that way, it is an honest question... Oh, and about the "take care of Earth" bit - 'take care of' in the Mafia way, not in the Mary Poppins way, I assume?

Originally posted by Mudokon Oddball (I'm not picking on you, it's just that you're the only person who's said anything interesting since last time I was here... ):
Humans have developed a specific area in our brain that concurs with our need for a diety or god. They have pinpointed the area that is active when we pray or engage in conversation about God or the Bible.

Thankfully, we don't all have one... To be honest, I think it would be being too specific/narrow-minded to pinpoint it as a "need for a deity", as many people have beliefs that have no God. It would probably be more accurate to desribe it as an area devoted to Faith. Let me guess: It's in the Abstract Thought area of the brain, correct?

[RoN_Rancor]

Humans have developed a specific area in our brain that concurs with our need for a diety or god. They have pinpointed the area that is active when we pray or engage in conversation about God or the Bible.

Just wondering, do they know it is active because they are praying, ect or that it is just active while praying, ect? Is it a part of the brain that is usually not active?

As for the statement itself...I have no opinion yet.

[Danny]

Maybe it activates whenever we believe strongly in something, or hope something, or something...

[RoN_Rancor]

Okay. That makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up, assuming you are right

[Danny]

Originally posted by RoN_Rancor:
Okay. That makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up, assuming you are right

That's a dangerous assumption to make, especially in such a contentious topic...

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck:
That's interesting...
It explains the reason why so many people are religious and stay religious after being given LOTS of evidence to support theories opposing their religion's.

It's as interesting as how it's been 'proved' that praying for people makes them better. I don't know the exact condidtions of the experiments but it's still a pretty interesting finding.

We stay religious because it's false evidence and we love God.

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

[quote]Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck:
[b]

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:

Your not intelligent........

Not compared to you with your bad grammar!


Not compared to you bad spelling and grammar and punctuation! And English was your first language? Tisk, tisk. If your so smart, there's no such thing as perfect English. Your going to make mistakes but you and Rettick don't know that. You and Rettick are both Looosssseeeerrrrrss.

Animals don't have a mind set to reason like humans do. I find it kinda sad if you can't tell the difference between an animal and a human. Yeah, they can be tamed, by human! No by themselves.

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

[Joe the Intern]

Not compared to you bad spelling and grammar and punctuation!

What? That sounds MUCH worse than either Dan's or Gluck Schmuck's. And, by the way, calling people losers doesn't help your argument, like Sydney said. Insults are the last refuge of a person who has no argument.

[Sydney]

Yes, I wonder why I carry the tag "Oddworld Administrator" when my pleas for kindness to be shown to each other are ignored. My pleas mean nothing, until someone is punished.

Pinkhaired, I see you've conveniently ingored my post about Mitochondrial DNA. Will you please respond to it?

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
I find it kinda sad if you can't tell the difference between an animal and a human.

I find it incredibly sad when people fail to see we share so many characteristsic with our brothers and sisters in the animal kingdom. Attitudes like these often result in endless suffering to those we deem inferior.

[Steve]

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:

Animals don't have a mind set to reason like humans do. I find it kinda sad if you can't tell the difference between an animal and a human. Yeah, they can be tamed, by human! No by themselves.

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ][/B]

I believe ants have tamed aphids. does that count as another animal taming another?

[Gluk Schmuck]

Originally posted by Steve:
I believe ants have tamed aphids. does that count as another animal taming another?

That's interesting...
Do you have any more information?

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

Originally posted by Sydney:
Yes, I wonder why I carry the tag "Oddworld Administrator" when my pleas for kindness to be shown to each other are ignored. My pleas mean nothing, until someone is punished.

Pinkhaired, I see you've conveniently ingored my post about Mitochondrial DNA. Will you please respond to it?

I find it incredibly sad when people fail to see we share so many characteristsic with our brothers and sisters in the animal kingdom. Attitudes like these often result in endless suffering to those we deem inferior.

I find it sad and ignorant if you can't tell the difference between an animal and a human being. I mean, are you blind?

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

Originally posted by Joe the Intern:
What? That sounds MUCH worse than either Dan's or Gluck Schmuck's. And, by the way, calling people losers doesn't help your argument, like Sydney said. Insults are the last refuge of a person who has no argument.

Ah shut up. It counts if you can actually talk english in real life. Not on some message board. Can you understand that?! I guess not. I forgot to put the "r" in your. So what? And by the way, you put too much commas in your sentence.

BTW, English is not my first language. I mean, you guys make common spelling and grammar errors too! SO I just would'nt talk. So if you decide to judge me joe, dan, and gluk, make sure you actually know something about me! I mean, what's your and gluk and dan's deal!

Also Joe, when was the last time you ever insulted someone? Don't say that you never did. If your angry, you will tend to say something that you did not meant to say or it just popped-up in your head.

Oh and Steve, on the ant thing. How would you know it's not instinct and not a "learned behavior?" How do you know if God gave them that instinct to do that?

Sydney, what was your mitochondria thing again? I did'nt mean to ignore it. I apologize.

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

[Danny]

Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
I find it sad and ignorant if you can't tell the difference between an animal and a human being. I mean, are you blind?

We are not saying that Humans are the same as other animals. We are saying that Humans are a type of animal. Do you agree that Sparrow are a type of animal, and so are worms? In that case, does that mean that you can't tell the difference between Sparrows and Worms? No, of course it doesn't.

And as for your cheap insults: Myself and Tom very rarely make spelling and punctuation errors. However, they abound in your posts. I find it slightly disappointing that the only insults you can think of are ones that we have already used, even though you know that they are not relevant to us...

That aside, why are you continuing to flame me anyway? I stopped my arguing when Sydney told me to [even though I can't see that I've done anything wrong], so why can't you have the good manners to do the same?

No, don't answer that, it'll only continue the arguments. Instead, I'll ask you again: What is this "Proof" of Creationism that you keep telling us about?

Edit: Okay, I've had enough. She's baited me too many times now...

Originally posted by Pinky:
Ah shut up. It counts if you can actually talk english in real life.(1) Not on some message board.(2) Can you understand that?! I guess not. I forgot to put the "r" in your. So what? And by the way, you put too much commas in your sentence.(3)

BTW, English is not my first language.(4) I mean, you guys make common spelling and grammar errors too!(5) SO I just would'nt talk. So if you decide to judge me joe, dan, and gluk, make sure you actually know something about me!(6) I mean, what's your and gluk and dan's deal!(7)

Also Joe, when was the last time you ever insulted someone? Don't say that you never did. If your angry, you will tend to say something that you did not meant to say or it just popped-up in your head.(8)

Oh and Steve, on the ant thing. How would you know it's not instinct and not a "learned behavior?" How do you know if God gave them that instinct to do that?(9)

1. We don't know if you can, and you don't know if we can, so what relevance does it have?

2. Which you can't do, apparrently.

3. No he didn't.

4. So much now becomes clear...

5. I've said it before and I'll say it again: WHEN? Look back over this topic. Count our errors. Count your own. Think.

6. What we know about you: a) You are a Christian Fundamentalist. b) You are unable to make any relevant and polite responses to arguments. c) You are totally unable to admit when you are wrong. The list goes on, but I can no longer be bothered. Just don't judge us by what you don't know, either.

7. Our "deal" is that you are unable to even admit the possibility that you might be wrong. Even when we lay out the evidence in front of you, all you can do is hurl abuse at us.

8. Don't try and pretend it just popped into your head. This is a Message Board, not a conversation. It takes time to type and post. You have to think. You can't just say something without thinking about it.

9. "Instinct" is just an excuse made up by Humans to negate the possibility that other animals think...

One last thing: USE THE F*CKING EDIT BUTTON (like I have just done)!

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Rettick ]

[Steve]

Numerous species of ants collect a sweet substance called honeydew that is excreted by various tiny insects, including aphids, mealy bugs, and scale insects. The insects most commonly used for this purpose are aphids, which pierce plant tissues to suck up juices from a plant. Among some of these ants, workers leave their nests regularly to watch over groups of aphids and protect them from predators. In some instances, these ants construct shelters out of soil or carton to shield the aphids from the environment.

Worker ants stroke the aphids with their antennae to induce them to release drops of honeydew. The ants then transfer this honeydew through trophallaxis to another group of workers, who carry it back to the nest and share it with nest workers. Individual workers may spend days or weeks among the same group of aphids.

that was from encarta. the first place I learned about this was from the book empire of the ants. if you've got spare time you should read it.(it's not all that realistic but still very good)

[PinkHaired Mudokon CWR]

Ha! Your the one getting all the insults from me and remixing my insults to make them cheap and stupid. You and Gluk rarely make spelling mistakes? Puhlease. You two think your sooo perfect it's a shame.


There are differences between an animal and a human. I'm not going to convince you or even try because you guys don't listen and think your right all the time so I won't talk on this one.

When I talk about "proof" on evolution, I mean real proof. Like how was the Earth created, humans and stuff like that. Not stars and all that crap. Where's the real proof? It's not factual because Darwin does not know because he was not there when the Earth was created so that's why it's called a "theory."

Why am I flamming at you? Because I'm sick of your attitude that your all high and mighty and never make mistakes! If I made spelling errors, I'm sorry! Ya happy? Atleast I admit my mistakes and I know that I am not perfect. Yep, you know everything and other people's belief's are wrong and the belief's you believe in are correct. Every since I stated that I was a Christian and believed in God, your trying to prove me wrong that he does not exist. Well, I am not going to be an atheist. Puhlease! That Goes for Gluk also. *Phew* I had to get that out!

[ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]