Should i stop being a vegetarien?

[Leto]

can't understand how some of you can defend vegeterianism because it's unnatural or savage, when the world's animals have been feasting on each other for as long as we can tell. AND, then you'll go ahead and defend something such as homosexuality with the statement that since the animals have been proven to do it, it is natural.

You can't have one without the other. Some of you need to really step back at take a look at what you're saying, because it's entirely hypocritical (this wasn't intended at any individual in particular, I just find it really amusing).

Alcar...

True, true.

I don't think eating animals is wrong, I just think it's mean. I mean, you may as well be a cannibal, it's all the same shite.

[General Drippik]

I don't think eating animals is wrong, I just think it's mean.

It's not mean, it's ****ing nature.

Animals eat eachother; humans are animals. We have the intelligence to turn animal killing into an industry and all of a sudden it's mean? No.

[Wil]

But industries aren't natural, so you've just contradicted yourself.

I don't think eating animals is wrong, I just think it's mean.

Don't you believe that being mean is wrong?

[Havoc]

How is surviving mean? ...
Cows, pigs, chickens. In the meat industry their nothing more but a product. Bred and raised for the sole purpose of being cut to pieces and ending up on a store shelf.
And doesn't being a canibal involve eating your own species. How is that in any way related to eating other species. That doesn't make ANY sence.
Killing other animals is a part of nature and is the most normal thing on this planet. IT'S NOT MEAN!!

[SeaRex]

But industries aren't natural, so you've just contradicted yourself.

If animals have the cognitive capacity to use certain tools to there advantage, then they do so. Humans happen to be advanced enough to develop their basic tools into machinery and the like.

Sounds pretty natural to me.

[Leto]

I can see we have a lot of openminded vegetarians here...

It's not mean, it's ****ing nature.

Animals eat eachother; humans are animals. We have the intelligence to turn animal killing into an industry and all of a sudden it's mean? No.

Fuck you, I'm entitled to an opinion. Pornography is an industry, but has it made the human race progress?

Don't you believe that being mean is wrong?

Not necessarily. Mean is more of an irritation than calling something wrong outright.

How is surviving mean? ...
Cows, pigs, chickens. In the meat industry their nothing more but a product. Bred and raised for the sole purpose of being cut to pieces and ending up on a store shelf.
And doesn't being a canibal involve eating your own species. How is that in any way related to eating other species. That doesn't make ANY sence.
Killing other animals is a part of nature and is the most normal thing on this planet. IT'S NOT MEAN!!

You're all missing the point here, chaps. Would you consider a hunter killing a small child mean?

Well, many of us wouldn't, because we're all dark cunts. But that's irrelevant. I just thinking taking another life is 'mean', forgive me for not using my time to go to dictionary.com.

Hey! It's like the good ol' days, isn't it chaps?

[General Drippik]

Pornography is an industry, but has it made the human race progress?

Who said anything about progress? Having meat as an industry is convenient.

You're all missing the point here, chaps. Would you consider a hunter killing a small child mean?

Uh, yes, because he's not going to eat it.

[Ninjaxe]

It is really up to you but I say you are missing out in killing the animals at reasonally population. cheeky comment:

Even Abe would eat a paramite pie and scarb cakes and one time a great relish of Meech Munches. As I gather these are meat products, yes? In our world who are the glukkons the farmers?

[Havoc]

If you kill an animal and don't eat it or use it for your own survival, then yes it's mean. Thats why I hate the hunters that kill for fun and stuff.
But if you kill an animal so you can eat it, then you kill it with a purpose. There isn't anything wrong or mean about that.

[Bullet Magnet]

I eat wildlife all the time, but I don't kill it.

The car in front killed it.

[SeaRex]

Oh. Are you people talking about "industry" in the sense that it's referring to machinery, or the type of goods produced?

Because if it's the latter, I misunderstood the connotation of "industry" that you guys are using, and I retract my previous statement.

[Bullet Magnet]

Seriously, eat road kill. If it's not squashed or rotten, its good. Perhaps even "morally vegetarian". Its the cheaper way to get pheasant.

[Nate]

Bullet Magnet; if no-one responded to your post, you can probably assume we did read it, but decided it wasn't worth responding to. You don't need to repeat the 'joke'. And I use that last word loosely.

But on a side note: noted ethicist and vegetarian Peter Singer has said that he has no ethical problem with eating road kill, as that animal would not have been raised and killed intentionally for eating.

Isn't Atkins about eating whatever you want and losing weight? I don't think it was about eating only meat.

Atkins is about eating lots of protein and no carbohydrates. This generally means eating meat for most meals. It's virtually impossible to follow the Atkin's diet as a vegetarian.

[Bullet Magnet]

Joke? Nononononononononononono! This was serious.

There are pheasant where I- oh never mind. You never will believe me. We made it into a casserole. there are websites on cooking that stuff.

[Sekto Springs]

Are you nucking futs?
Eat road kill?
I could understand when it comes from McDonald's and it's quick and convenient, but making a casserole from roadkill?
Taking the time, to prepare an animal that has been flattened by the filthy tires of countless vehicles driven by rednecks, teenagers, and overweight soccer moms alike, into an edible form is just... double-u, tee, eff.

No, seriously.

[Wil]

Oh. Are you people talking about "industry" in the sense that it's referring to machinery, or the type of goods produced?

Because if it's the latter, I misunderstood the connotation of "industry" that you guys are using, and I retract my previous statement.

I've been talking about industries as social system by which a population can exceed its natural carrying capacity - the stable number of that species that can exist in a stable ecosystem. Other species may use tools, but as yet we've never seen those tools as a positive feedback system, only a negative one that leads to the crashing of that population to a mean, sustainable level. Eating meat, whatever the ethical implications to the individual living creatures, requires far too much of the planet's resources to adequately sustain the human population. Either our numbers will, sooner or later, plummet, or we can adapt to reduce the parasitic relationship we have with ‘nature’.

But on a side note: noted ethicist and vegetarian Peter Singer has said that he has no ethical problem with eating road kill, as that animal would not have been raised and killed intentionally for eating.

I've never heard of this person, but I've never considered eating meat to be wrong, just the killing of animals to provide it. If an animal dies naturally (or, as I sit here speculating, is killed to stop its suffering), I wouldn't condone discarding its carcass. Road kill is a slightly different matter asI abhor driving.

How is surviving mean?

It's not just a matter of surviving. Vegetarians can survive. They can also have just as high a quality of life as anyone else. In modern society, meat is a luxury, more so even than the entertainment media, and one that requires much more energy be taken from the environment, and one that pretty much necessitates the slaughter of animals.

[Havoc]

Thats where I have to disagree. Meat is not a luxery. Meat is a basic food product just like anything else. Us human beings eat both plants and meat, thats our nature. Thats our instinct and it's 'basicly' about surviving. If you kill an animal so you can eat it, you eat it and thus you survive for another day.

[Wil]

It may be a basic food product if you catagorise all possible foods, but it's not necessary for the survival of most people, so it's not a matter of eating meat in order to survive.

I would be interested in what studies you know of that have found meat-eating to be an instinct. It could be learnt behaviour. Certainly the friends I have who grew up in a meat-free environment never consider eating meat.

[Havoc]

I don't know of any studies, but we are equiped to process meat, as has been pointed out earlier in this thread. We have the digestive system to handle it, and we have the dental equipment to chew it.

And well yea, it could be a taught thing. But then again, humans as a race have reached a point where everything needs to be taught. If you were to keep a baby in a concrete bunker, feed it trough a hospital tube and stuff, 18 years later it wouldn't know anything about having to eat something using their mouth. At least, thats what I think.

[Wil]

We're equipped to process meat because back when we had to capture our own prey to complement our diet of the local crops and wild plants it gave us an evolutionary advantage. Now we have access to a vegetarian diet that can completely sustain us, yet we're eating more meat than ever, and that's having a negative impact on most people's health.

Human parents have few offspring, but in return there is a big parental investment that allows us to learn a lot during our lifetimes, so our innate knowledge has dwindled. If you put a newborn in sensory/behavioural deprivation, obviously there's nothing for it to learn, but if you were to let it grow up in the world on its own it could easily learn to feed itself. It would probably eat meat.

But then we're not all raising ourselves in the tropical rainforest, we're living in a social environment that allows us to become educated about the consequences of living in that same social environment. If we were wild and depended on meat for survival, I wouldn't be here arguing otherwise.

[Havoc]

I guess in the end it's always a personal choice, another one of those nice human advantages. But it's not unnatural to eat meat, as long as thats clear. It's not 'totaly' a survival issue either, but it's an option you have as a human being. I personaly don't like to let human emotion such as 'sympathy for the animal you're eating' get in the way of a nice juicy hamburger. If the universe doesn't want me to do something, then I'm sure I wouldn't be able to do it in the first place. Thats what I think of it.

[Bullet Magnet]

The worst thing about eating meat is the way some animals are raised. They should all be free range and be happy in their short lives. Chickens now grown so fast that what you eat is actually a deformed chick. Those are not hens you buy in the shop. And those black marks on their knees? ammonia burns. Their legs cannot support their weight, they grow so fast, and they end up kneeling in their own waste.

Support free range products to end the abuse.

[General Drippik]

The trick is to not think about their past suffering as you suck down their delicious flesh.

Unless you don't care.

[Bullet Magnet]

Yes, well...

I wanna get a couple of things straight.
I'm not a vegetarian, I just took the side with the least representation in this thread.

I do not go out at night with a spatula and scrape dead animals off of the road.
1 I make my brother get the pheasant.
2 They are never flat. Usually the car just breaks their neck and they died quickly, knocked to the side of the road. They are too slow and stupid to get out of way. If any part is squashed, forget it.
3 They are not there for days. Pretty quickly scavengers will beat me to it, so you can be sure that it is fresh, unless the bird is surrounded by flat foxes.

Tips for those who might be presuaded to do the same, an unlikely situation, but hey, this is Oddworld Forums.

Check that the bird is dead when you put it in your car, and not stunned. You do not want it to wake up in your car or house, believe me.

Make sure the gut is not ruptured, or the meat will be contaminated and deadly to eat.

Happy scraping!

[Sekto Springs]

It's just the thought that's disgusting. All though I'm sure where the meat we get at the market is killed isn't very sanitary either.

[Wil]

Yeah, pheasants are a real pain when driving. It's not that they're slow, it's that they actually wait until you're really close to run across the road in front of you. It's horrible now that it's breeding season.

Perhaps I could suggest we stop and pick up any we pass, but frankly I'm trying to reduce the meat I eat, not find new sources.

[Nate]

Are you nucking futs?
Eat road kill?
I could understand when it comes from McDonald's and it's quick and convenient, but making a casserole from roadkill?
Taking the time, to prepare an animal that has been flattened by the filthy tires of countless vehicles driven by rednecks, teenagers, and overweight soccer moms alike, into an edible form is just... double-u, tee, eff.

No, seriously.

I was talking from an ethical standpoint, rather than any practical concept.

[Sekto Springs]

That wasn't even directed at you. Whatever.