Unbelievable...

[OANST]

Have you been reading my cartoon scripts?

[Nate]

nate, if The Simpsons had an episode showing Mohammed there'd be problems. No matter what context, it's offensive to depict him.

That was my point. The Simpsons don't get complaints because they're careful not to be too offensive.

Now, The Simpsons has showed God and Jesus in a less-than-perfect light and I'm sure people have been offended.

I'm struggling to think of what you're referring to but you should also remember that The Simpsons is made and aired in societies where Christianity is the dominant religion. On the other hand, when you're a minority you become a lot more sensitive to any slights than when the offense is spread out a bit more.

[Adder]

Remember when Homer predicted the end of the world?

And God says Jesus came back from earth "messed up"... or something to that effect?

[Nate]

And... what's so offensive about that? I'd say having nails rammed through your wrists and ankles would mess anyone up.

[Dino]

You know it's people like you guys that cause a lot of problems in this world by holding the opinions that you do.

These cartoons were offensive toward islam, yes, but they were not offensive enough to provoke the reaction they did.

Here's the reality;
The "protesters" holding the VERY inflammatory signs are hired actors, operating on an agent provocateur mission. Their job is to incite racial hatred in islam, and to control people into seeing them as the enemy. Lets face it, lots of normally non-racist people will be looking at these protesters and saying "hey these guys are all terrorists! Islam is really bad! I'm going to hate them now!", and that's desired effect of it.

Where's the proof? The proof is here: Cartoons mocking the prophet Mohammed have been around and even appeared in newspapers many times in the past. Despite that, these cartoons have NEVER provoked such a reaction in the past, even the ones that have surfaced in the recent past.

Why? And who for?
Well the answer to that is, because it's strategically advantageous for the NWO if the western world hates Islam. As for who for, take into account that all the news media companies, large corporations, and a lot of governments have a lot of control over the world, in the sense that, there's a few people at the top of these companies, corporations and governments who can make decisions that will impact the world hugely. The fact that most of these powerful people work together in the Bilderberg society means that they can effectively control most of the world, at least the western world, because they're collectively in control of so many aspects of the western world.

Guess which important countries aren't in the Bilderberg society?

Yep, you guessed it, the primarily muslim, islamic countries. Iran, Iraq, Afgahnistan, etc. as well as many African nations. Eliminate these countries and the Bilderberg countries are the only ones left, clearing the path toward world domination, NWO, and police state. The Bilderberg become the new government, for every single country in the world.

It's only a theory, but it's a theory that has one heck of a lot of evidence supporting it. The more I think about it the more it makes sense to me.

[used:)]

All I can say is, what would the Jews do?

Seriously, that particular race has been thorugh a lot in history, which is kinda ironic considering the culture's longevity.

LISTEN, ISLAMIST EXTREMISTS, TAKE A LESSON FROM THE JEWS, LEARN TO COPE WITH REALITY.

The only thing worse than the bully is the victim that cries and whines about it like these guys have.

note: I am not intending to be offensive in any way towards the Muslim nation, just those karazy terrorists.

[Nate]

Ummm... knowing my brotherhood they'd probably kick up a stink, call the newspaper editor the next Hitler and then bicker amongst themselves about how they handled it.

Dino. I don't know where to start. Are you really trying to say that those protestors are actors hired by the western governments to promote hatred against Islam? Because that's one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

EDIT: Just in case anyone else was wondering WTF Dino was talking about when he mentioned the Bilderberg Society, it's basically one of your standard crackpot conspiracy theories. Read http://www.bilderberg.org/ in case you don't believe me.

I know you don't care what I think Dino, but I lost a lot of respect for you in that last post.

[Adder]

Dino, WTF?!

First you group all posters in here ("you guys") and then you talk about something that sounds ridiculously obsurd and slightly ignorant.

"Cartoons mocking the prophet Mohammed have been around and even appeared in newspapers many times in the past." - Yes. These ones first appeared last year (around November) and were protested by the Danish minority of Islam followers. Guess what? Nothing happened. The cartoons were published again, and again, and again. So people KNEW it was offensive, but didn't care.

The idea that "extreemists are actors"? Where do you get this "conspiracy theory" crap from?
"NWO?" Which NWO?

Okay, you admit it's just a theory. But so is the theory that Christianity is bringing down the entire world order. After all, it only took a few hundred years for Chritianity to bring down the entire Roman empire.

Dude, READ MORE. And try to read unbiased material (which, I admit, is damn hard to do).

[Dino]

LOL.

I was being satyrical. It only takes a 5 minute Google search to work out that 99% of this conspiracy theory stuff ends up with offering to sell you a book, DVD or subscription to a members-only radio service. So no, of course I don't believe in it.

Why satire? Well look at this thread, just look at it. There's only one obvious conclusion to make: The current climate has got everyone really irate, up in arms, and the extremists are naturally going over the top. The cartoons were as pointless as the reaction to them, and that's the end of the story. Yet we're having a discussion about it?

Oh yes, look at the times we're in, wow, lets all make wild speculations and grandiose conspiracy theories, because that's fun and fuels the paranoia industry. Oops, did I say that out loud? Oh well, the truth will set us free! At least that's what they say on the GCN radio network. Or maybe the "truth" will set my money free of my wallet? You be the judge!

Christ.

[used:)]

This is alittle off topic, but has anyone else realised that none of us have actually seen the war in the middle east?

I mean, we have media in all shapes in sizes delivering news about it, but we have never actually been on that soil, actually seeing the combat.

Just something I wanted to point out.

[Nate]

Mostly because the reporters value their lives way too much.

But I have actually seen footage of raids and suchforth. Let's not get too 'Wag the Dog'-ish now.

I mean, seriously, if this war were created by the government, don't you think it would be going slightly better? Or has the US government executed a thousand of its own soldiers just to perpetuate a myth?

[Nepharski]

BEFORE YOU READ THIS:
1.THIS THREAD IS NOT RACIST OR BLASPHEMOUS EVEN THOUGH IT MAY SOUND SO.
2.IF YOU DO THINK IT'S INSULTING, I DON'T WANT TO HEAR BRAGGING AND INSULTS.

Ok, I want to bring up an issue. I think it was last week when a Danish cartoon was published in a newspaper which "poked a bit of fun" at a Muslim prophet or the religion. Of course, the Muslims got unreasonably angry over this little incident. I, for one think that was incredibly stupid and unneccesary. I mean, look at Southpark, Family guy, Futurama and The Simpsons.

These cartoons make fun of Christion, Jewish, Budhist and other religions all the time. And the Danish cartoon was in a newspaper. I mean, come on! Anyway, I just read an article that "protesters" are marching through the Middle East burning Danish flags and stuffed pigs as I heard. Not only this, but they're yelling out: "Death to Christians and Jews! Screw democracy!". And look at us (US, AUS, Europe etc.), we don't make such a fuss, even though some Muslims (NOT ALL OF THEM) are insulting our principles and religions. We support them, send them food and money, try to be peaceful, and this is their response. So, I ask you, respected members of the forum, what is your opinion on this?

ONCE AGAIN I'D LIKE TO SAY THAT I WASN'T REFFERING TO ALL MUSLIMS, JUST THE BAD PROTESTERS.

The Muslims are exploding into a fury because some Danish guy with good art skills and an opinion decided to put these two aforementioned things to use. Meanwhile, the Middle East proves to be a hot spot for consumers in need of such works as The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Hippocrits.

[Nate]

I'm trying really hard to see why that point is wrong Neph but I'm failing.

I suppose my thought process is that both the cartooning and the promotion of the Protocols is wrong but that doesn't mean that they can't protest anyway. Moderate Muslims were also pretty pissed off about the cartoons, after all.

[used:)]

Mostly because the reporters value their lives way too much.

But I have actually seen footage of raids and suchforth. Let's not get too 'Wag the Dog'-ish now.

I mean, seriously, if this war were created by the government, don't you think it would be going slightly better? Or has the US government executed a thousand of its own soldiers just to perpetuate a myth?

Not really, Bush is a puppet to business. And the higher powers in this country are BIG business people. Huge companies ahve benfited economically form this war, oil companies, weapon companies, all sorts.

[Nepharski]

I'm trying really hard to see why that point is wrong Neph but I'm failing.

I suppose my thought process is that both the cartooning and the promotion of the Protocols is wrong but that doesn't mean that they can't protest anyway. Moderate Muslims were also pretty pissed off about the cartoons, after all.

Oh, I'd have no beef with them if they were merely pissed off, but they bombed an embassy, and have caused numerous deaths at the hands of protesters. That's why I think they're being losers right now. And again, this is merely a cartoon, as opposed to the Protocols which have been proven fake at least twice, but continue to be sold and proclaimed as the latest and greatest amongst anti-Semites. Yet do we see the Jewsish people rising up in violent protest? No. Muslim newspapers print anti-Semitic cartoons and articles every day, and still no explosions.

See what I'm hitting at?

[Nate]

Yeah, I gotcha. It's just that, ignoring their unjustified retaliation, I find it insulting that people can't even acknowledge that the Muslim community has been wronged. And perhaps the reason I sympathise with them is as a member of a minority that has, at times, been treated badly ourselves.

Not really, Bush is a puppet to business. And the higher powers in this country are BIG business people. Huge companies ahve benfited economically form this war, oil companies, weapon companies, all sorts.

But how would any of that justify making up a war that doesn't exist? Or making a war that did exist look worse than it really was?

[Nepharski]

It's just that, ignoring their unjustified retaliation, I find it insulting that people can't even acknowledge that the Muslim community has been wronged.

Wronged? Pardon my seemingly cliche' statement, but it's just one cartoon. Forgive me if I seem to be beating the matter to death, but Jews and Christians have been publicly defiled in far worse matters, and much more often, and yet neither groups rise en masse to cause wanton destruction. Protest? Yes, and the Muslims have the right to protest, and they should protest...but preferably under non-flammable terms.

They certainly have been wronged, yes, and they certainly have a right to be angry, but they are also certainly WAAAAAY over-reacting, especially comparatively speaking.

Besides, the more chaotic they grow, aren't they even more so justifying the cartoonist's opinion?

[Dino]

What I wonder about is why this cartoon provokes a huge outrage, yet many far worse events have transpired without so much as a peep from the same community. We're not talking about reaction from Jews or Christians here, we're talking about the SAME muslims who didn't react to far worse in the past yet chose this insignificant cartoon to get all riled up over. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back, but I doubt it.

[Adder]

Wronged? Pardon my seemingly cliche' statement, but it's just one cartoon.

No.

It's a series of 12.

And they've been printed more than once in multiple papers each time.

The muslim community has a right to be damn pissed off, but not to break the law.

[Nepharski]

More than one? Thank you for alerting me to my error.

[Nate]

Okay, reread my last post Neph. I acknowledge that the way that some people have hit back against the cartoon is excessive and wrong. I just object to people who claim that the Muslim community have no reason at all to be insulted.

Dino, I'd say you're right about the camel-hair thing. Take a look at Muslim communities across the world over the last few years and you will see that they have become increasingly isolated, sensitive and aggressive. Which is understandable given the way they have generally been perceived and treated globally since 9-11.

[Nepharski]

I just object to people who claim that the Muslim community have no reason at all to be insulted.

So do I. They have a perfectly justifiable reason to be insulted...just not a justifiable reason behind their methods of "Expressing their anger."

[Dino]

Dino, I'd say you're right about the camel-hair thing. Take a look at Muslim communities across the world over the last few years and you will see that they have become increasingly isolated, sensitive and aggressive. Which is understandable given the way they have generally been perceived and treated globally since 9-11.

You think? I suppose that would make sense... like I said, the current climate has been getting worse and worse, which has been gradually making people more and more edgey. These muslims must now feel like they're totally under seige.

Still, seems a bit unlikely that a mere cartoon would be that last straw. But hey, stranger things have happened. Like for instance two planes flying into the two tallest buildings in the USA, causing them to collapse in such a controlled way that it had conspiracy theorists tripping over themselves to be the first to shout "hoax! staged! rah!".

[Nate]

Thinking about it more, I wouldn't say it's a last straw thing. Just that their reactions have become progressively more extreme over the last few years as they have become more disenfranchised from the western world. One example would be the riots in France last year.

[Adder]

The French riots were not caused by any one "group", to my knowledge. It was just teenagers "protesting"

[Nate]

Oh, sorry. Bad example based on faulty memory then. But my point is still valid.

[Nate]

Danish cartoonists draw cartoons offensive to Muslims,
So Iran sponsors anti-semitic cartoons about the holocaust (because that's a logical connection, of course)
So how do the Jews respond? As usual, they take the "Anything you can do, I can do better" tack. So an Israeli guy has set up a competition for the most disgustingly anti-semitic cartoon drawn by a Jew.
And I have to say, most of them are a damn sight better (in quality) / worse (in offensiveness) than any of the intentionally offensive ones I've seen.

Here's the album index. WARNING: Read only if you possess a high tolerance for irony.
And here are some of my favourites:

[Adder]

...okay, your source is a blog.

...and while that doesn't completely cancel it out, the main problem with the first 2 groups of cartoons (i.e. Muhammad and Holecost) is that they were designed only to be offensive (at least, that's the way it appears. It's hard to see the 'light' humour in them).

If you're creating cartoons that would be offensive ONLY to show people "we can laugh at ourselves" it's just not the same.

[Nate]

Of course it's not the same... duh.

And as for the blog thing, I just put that link in because I thought it was more interesting and more succinct than the Reuters article that it links to.

[Incognito]

This is ridiculous, muslims and non-muslims have depicted the prophet throughout history and not a peep has been heard from the muslim world; I have personally seen paintings much more insulting to Muhammad than these recent cartoons (anyone read Dante's Inferno?).

Portrayals of Muhammad throughout history

Muhammad actually did feature in a South Park episode once- "Super best friends". I have not seen the episode in question so I can not comment on it.

I don't know why the muslims have been so aggressive over these caricatures (when seeing the cartoons I got the feeling that the artist/s was rather taking the piss out of himself for drawing them and thinking that he would get away with it.) I see nothing of real offence in the drawings but rather it seems more like an European non-muslim's perspective of how Islam is being protrayed by the muslim world. And frankly the muslims are not doing anything to reverse this perception. (But rather aggravate the situation by burning embassies and threatening to attack the countries they live in). Sometimes I do despair for my muslim brothers and sisters.

But what has really gotten me upset is that this situation has made me realise that the vast majority (or at least the vocal proportion) do not adhere to the principles and values set out in the Qur'an.

Firstly there is no ban on depicting the prophet in the Qur'an.

Secondly, even if there was, should such a ban really be extended to non-muslims? The Qur'an forbids the consumption of the meat of swine, however that prohibition does not extend to those who do not believe in the authority of the Qur'an.

Thridly, Muhammad was not the only prophet sent by God, according to the Qur'an, so what really disappoints me is why the muslims make such a fuss over depiction of Muhammad, but say nothing about pictures depicting Jesus, Moses or Abraham.

Fourth, the Qur'an mentions the mocking of the prophet by his opponents during his lifetime yet tells the prophet to ignore their taunts, only say to them "peace" and leave their company. (Muslims these days like doing the opposite of what their book says). I would post verses but I fell that this is not the right place to do so. If any wants references from the text regarding this they can pm me.

Cheer! Well said and I like it. I mean, they do all believe in the same basic principles with a few differences, for example Jews don't believe that Jesus was the son of God, just a very good Rabbi(sp?). And in the Islamic religion God is called Allah (or am I hideously wrong with that?).

Yes! The God of the jews, christians, and muslims is one God, the God of Abraham. (Allah is just the condensed form of the arabic Al (The) Ilah (God), so Allah just simply means The God (i.e. the one and only)).

Sometimes I wish people would focus not on the differences but rather the similarities we have in common. We are after all just one big family.