Immigration...GET IN!!

[Dino]

Wow. I'm with Incognito on this, as he clearly has the advantage of knowledge. I bow to you sir.

But I'm slightly confused as to what this has to do with Immigration, with the exception of the fact that a lot of immigrants are Islamic.

[soulstice]

I don't know where you got that translation from as there is no seven in those versee at all. Here are the verses properly translated,

78:31 As for the righteous, they will have success.
78:32 Gardens and vineyards.
78:33 And grapes that are ripe.
78:34 And a cup that is full.
78:35 They do not hear in it any vile talk or lies.
78:36 A reward from your Lord, in recognition for what is done.

No mention of any virgins at all in that verse but instead grapes. (It would make more sense for grapes to be in gardens and vineyards than virgins wouldn't it?)

OK. I admit I did paste that from a western site.

There's a difference between learning from a textbook for a school assignment and actually studying the text of the Quran out of your interest using only the text and your own judgement. Have you actually ever read the Quran?

Maybe there is, but I don't want to read the 'Satanic Verses'. If I wanted to read a peaceful and inspirational religions book I'd rather read the Upanishads of Hinduism or the Tripitaka of Buddhism.
You do know that the crusades happened about 500 years after the compilation of the Quran? Just because a scholar says something or a muslim acts in a certain way does not mean it is actually the right thing to do.

If you actually knew anything about the true history of islam and the rise of the ulama (religious scholars) and how they used their own laws and implemented them into the religion of islam them you'd be a bit more understanding.

There are two sources of jurisdiction in traditional islam; the Quran and the hadith. Now it is the second source the hadith which is responsible for some of the most barbaric, misogynistic and downright disgusting laws and actions that muslims carry out in the name of islam.

Many muslims are taught that the hadith (a huge collection of the sayings and actions of the prophet Muhammad) along with the Quran was part of the revelation from God. That being said, many muslims don't know that the hadith were written and collected over 200 years after Muhammad's death using the oral traditions of the arabs passed down from generation to generation. So with each hadith (saying) there is a chain of narration that goes something along the lines of,

A was told by B that he had heard from C that D was talking to companion E who had heard from the prophet etc.

It's a bit like chinese whispers stretched out over 200 years. Any historian would obviously discard anything from the hadith as being inaccurate, yet they are still to this day used as a source of shariah law in "muslim" countries across the world. And not only that but they are used to interpret the verses of the Quran and to also translate them. (Hence why many translators do manipulate the arabic to translate "grapes that are ripe" to "Full breasted virgins".

So in conclusion it is not the actual islam that I have a problem with, but the literature of sayings that are falsely atrributed to the prophet by the ulama and leaders.

And your point is? The Vedas were written 4,000 years ago and are considered the supreme books of Hinduism. The Aranyakas, Upanishads and Brahmanas were written some 1,000 years later yet they still form the fundamental canon of Hindu scripture. I'm sorry but Islam is not a religion that is attractive or peaceful. For example, the surpression of women. Did you know that even in a rich country like Saudi Arabia, only 27% of girls are aloowed into education by their fathers? And they have to cover themselves up completely. Frankly, I don't know why they take it.

[Incognito]

Maybe there is, but I don't want to read the 'Satanic Verses'. If I wanted to read a peaceful and inspirational religious book I'd rather read the Upanishads of Hinduism or the Tripitaka of Buddhism.

The "Satanic Verses" is a book written by Salman Rushdie, I never asked you to read that did I? If you're going to have pre-conceived ideas about something that you haven't even read or studied independently then I don't see the point in continuing this discussion.

I'm sorry but Islam is not a religion that is attractive or peaceful. For example, the surpression of women. Did you know that even in a rich country like Saudi Arabia, only 27% of girls are allowed into education by their fathers? And they have to cover themselves up completely. Frankly, I don't know why they take it.

See that is exactly what I am talking about when it comes to Hadith vs Quran; the Quran allows women their rights it doesn't ask them to cover up but rather to dress modestly. The hadith is like an explanation of the Quran by the 9th century arabs - so to them modest would be fully covered up. Unfortunately what started out as something the 9th century muslims used to apply the scripture in their soceity has become a rigid dictator to the lives of many muslims. So instead of 'evolving', muslims are stuck with instead of the tolerant islam that the Quran preaches, a religion that is stuck in the dark ages and has nothing to do with the true message of the Quran.

My friend who is from a respectable Sudanese family even and has studied Islamic doctrines extensively even told me that female circumcision is an Islamic practise that is advised in passages so as to lessen the female's pleasure during sex and make sex 'only for pregnancy.'

Female circumcision is not an islamic practice, but a pagan practice that has been carried on by many tribes in Africa whether they be muslim, christian or pagan. Again the issue of women's education comes into issue here, many scholars tell the women that female circumcision is prescribed in the Quran, yet because of of the high rates of illiteracy not many of them can actually go to check the facts. These so called "islamic doctrines" that your friend talks about is the hadith which I am talking about, not the Quran.

I don't really care about what you say. To me, Islam is a dreadful religion. And the animal cruelty and sacrifice...don't get me started.

If you really feel that way then I don't see any point in continuing this discussion. If you do wish to continue (which I doubt) then please start a new thread as we seem to be off the topic in this one. BTW animal cruelty and sacrifice their motives can be found in the hadith. If you were actually open minded and studied islam properly you'd realise that alot of injustice is done in it's name.
I'm just going to end this post with one of the smaller chapters from the Quran; judge from this yourself how intolerant islam really is,

Chapter 109
109:1 In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
109:2 Say: "O rejecters,"
109:3 "I do not serve what you serve,"
109:4 "Nor do you serve what I serve,"
109:5 "Nor will I serve what you serve,"
109:6 "Nor will you serve what I serve,"
109:7 "To you is your religion, and to me is mine."

[Jacob]

Did anybody see the massive riot that kicked off when the rumour of Marines using the Koran as toilet paper got out?

Anybody hear of all the deaths that happened because of it?

Needless to say, Islam may be put across as a peaceful religion, but it's not if you insult their God.

On a programme called 'It's my life' there was this Muslim called Mohammed (heh) and he said that they'd do anything to protect their God's name, even kill, but the God himself is a peaceful God. But they love him so much, they'd kill anybody who abused him.

Savages. Bring back the British Empire, that's what i say, golly gosh and all that!

[Shrink]

I also want back the British Empire. I don't know what those 20th century fools were doing, throwing it away.
And getting beaten by Ghandi? Jesus Christ, he didn't even have a gun.

Though, without the Empire, we could still pwn the shit outta them Muslims.

[soulstice]

Erm, one thing Incognito. The 'Satanic Verses' are what Salman Rushdie believes some verses of the Qur'an to be. They were compliled by some guy called Muhammed Ibn Ishaq or something. To be honest, I agree with him on the whole satanic verses concept.

[used:)]

Did anybody see the massive riot that kicked off when the rumour of Marines using the Koran as toilet paper got out?

Omg

That pissed me off so much. First Abu Graib then that! How do we expect to make peace with the Islamic Nation if we keep trashing their people? (PA is gonna get a kick outta this)

[Dino]

Disrespecting people and religions in such a way are not examples of the behaviour of people who're responsible, mature and intelligent. Seriously it's good demonstration of a man's character when he display's support for these troops. Shows how ignorant, boorish, inconsiderate and immature he is.

So I say let PA come in and celebrate this idiocy, because his moronic actions will speak for themselves. So will the way that he accuses anyone who holds an opinion that opposes his, of being liberals, atheists and "towelhead" supporters.

[soulstice]

That second paragraph sounds like an extract from an old piece of literature or something.

[Jacob]

'Disrespecting people and religions in such a way are not examples of the behaviour of people who're responsible, mature and intelligent. Seriously it's good demonstration of a man's character when he display's support for these troops.'

The army did f*ck all though, it turned out to be a falsified claim.

It reveals more about the people who murdered innocents, trashed shops and attempted to do more harm than good just because the rumour mill stated a sh*t stain of a book was used as toilet paper. So primitive.