Immigration...GET IN!!

[Jacob]

So, this is mainly about Britain, but America has a shocking amount of immigration, also, so feel free to join in.

So, what's everybody's views on it? Are you for or against? I'm a bit of both. Surprisingly.

But before i go into my opinions, what're yours? Come on, let's share our views on her as if we were sharing genital warts at a Sex Addicts Anonymous meeting.

[used:)]

Well, America was pracically built off immuigration in the industrial age. Thats why it's a melting pot.

Britain I don't know that much about, but when I visited Londin in sixth grade, like every shop was pwned by someone from Iran or something. Not that I have a problem with them, it was just kind of weird. Probably because Britain is put to be this jolly snooty caucasian country. I didn't buy it, but the influence still sank in.

[SeaRex]

Let me just say one thing.

If you're going to move into a country, then you should at least have the common decency to learn the dominant language. You're supposed to be adapting to the country, not the other way around.

Every time I see Spanish on a product package before English, it brings out the racists, bigot, white supremacist bastard in me.

[soulstice]

Well, if the immigrants will work to sustain themselves and not claim from the government, they should be allowed to live here (but not the ridiculous vast numbers we're seeing now). If they're going to claim, they should be deported immediately.

[Shrink]

Nothing against immigrants, just their skin colour.

I kid.

[Rex Tirano]

I agree with Sea Rex, although in my opinion [but I'm not an american, so I probably have the wrong end of the stick or something] children in America should be taught english and spanish from an early age, because isn't it something like 45% of the population speaks spanish. Of course if you move to a country you should adapt, but that's almost half of the population.

At the moment I'm relatively against immagration. I just think the UK has been to lax with immigration in the past, which has resulted in the unnecessary death of that man who ran from the police.

And like Sea Rex, there are alot of immgarants in my town who expect people to speak their language and make little effort to help store cashiers, ect. as they speak in their own language.

Although, [I might be cancelling myself out here] I am for student visas and what not.

- Rexy

[LoboDiabloLoneWolf]

Okay, immigration, I don't mind so much if immigrants come to the UK, but (like soulstice) I don't think it's right if they just claim benefit, that's not fair on all the hard workin' folks. But if they need to get out of their country because they're bein' massacred, then that's fine with me. Okay, I'm done.

[Hobo]

At the moment I'm relatively against immagration. I just think the UK has been to lax with immigration in the past, which has resulted in the unnecessary death of that man who ran from the police.

While i'm not going to move this thread on, i will say that he'd probably have been shot anyway.

[Jacob]

Meh, how Gay, you all agree with me. Booooo!!

I don't mind immigration if the immigrants are going to work to sustain our country. And i don't mean these crappy jobs were they get paid £1 per hour, which is wrong.

As soon as they commit a crime, they should be deported back immediately. I don't care if they want to appeal, if we know it's them who's done it and they've been found guilty, goodbye. Too many of them are using the appeal process to purposefully lose themselves in the system anyway. It's disgusting.

Not only that, but they bring their racial tensions here. Okay-Okay, so i generalise, but the Iraqi's and Iranians have been known, in Hull at least, to purposefully intimidate each other and even start off fights. The annoying thing is that our papers are told to be quiet about it, just incase we evoke more "racist" viewpoints. But wait, if a skin-head Football thug was to beat up a Paki, wouldn't that be in the paper? Oh wait...yes...that's right...because apparently that doesn't matter.

Quite a few of them carry knives as well, but, in Hull at least, the Police can't stop and search them without a specific order being given out over the radio. Why? Because it's seen as "picking on them" if they do.

Oh and the majority also treat women like crap. Believe me on this one. I've had a few run-ins with some of them in more ways than one (and that's not in the fighting sense) and the way they treat the Prostitutes in Hull is vile and disgusting.

Oh, i also loathe the fact that Human Rights kicked off about screening them for diseases. Ugh. From what i've heard disease rates have shot up since we stopped doing so. Booooo!!

[Jacob]

Following up from this, as i just remembered i didn't put across my more controversial point...

Is anybody in Britain anxious when it comes to the possibility of being a minority-White?

...which, no matter what the liberals say, will eventually happen. It's happened in Bradford and, methinks, Birmingham and parts of Landan and in cities of America. So, are you anxious?

[Joshy]

I'm all for immigration in Australia, since our economy is reaching capacity constraint and the cost push inflation is starting to set in due to the lack of skills in trade causing a rise in wage therefore inflation, and this might cause the Reserve Bank of Australia to raise interest rate to stop the inflation.

In summary, i'm all for immigration but if anyone commits a crime in this country they should die. *Depends on the crime* and i mean all Australian, not only migrants.

[soulstice]

Britain did colonize a hell of a lot of countries, so we kind of brought this on ourselves in a lot of senses too.

[Beavis Core]

Yeah, but it's ok for us to do it. We had an Empire. A frigging empire. Like China. We're the master race (oh, how Hitler of me. :P)

By the way, I'm just taking the piss...

[used:)]

Britain did colonize a hell of a lot of countries, so we kind of brought this on ourselves in a lot of senses too.

Well, my country wouldn't be here without you. A similar country probably, but not this one. Thank you *kisses mother country*

[Jacob]

'Britain did colonize a hell of a lot of countries, so we kind of brought this on ourselves in a lot of senses too.'

We rock though.

One of my main worries with Immigration is that a lot of the immigrants are from the Middle East. They are thus Islamic and are all against some of our more liberal views. If enough of them get in to our country, they could have a dramatic influence on our politics.

[Dino]

I'm intrigued by the fact that the Labour government has yet to clock on to the fact that letting these people in to the country is detrimental to the "war on terror". Each one of the terrorists on 7/7 were immigrants, and there must be many more. While I agree that some if not most of them are helpful, contributing citizens, their easy access to the UK contradicts many current Labour policies.

Their presence in the UK gives them all the more power and ability to attack a western nation that they see as a threat to their concerns.

[used:)]

Yeah, arabs are ****ing everywhere in tyour neighborhoods. This will sound stupid, but I actually thouight I saw Osama Bin Laden in a deliuvery truck full of fruit. It's amazing how a person who lives in cavescan stir up so much trouble.

[Statikk HDM]

I'm not really sure of the situation oversees, but I'll share my views stateside.
Immigration is a net gain for the economy. Immigrants are most likely never going to be in a legal position for them to use government programs, in fact it is far more likely that they will never use them. So no, immigrants don't come to America to rape Unlce Sam on dental benefits.
The only jobs that illegal immigration take suck anyhow, so don't give me that ridiculous line "they took our jobs." Yep, picking chemical laden lettuce in the heart of California without sun protection for .75 cents and hour is a real plum. So is being a nanny to some racist yuppy's kids for 2 bucks an hour and not getting ratted out to the government.
Thirdly, the United States is more than large enough to support hundreds of thousands of immigrants a year. There are entire STATES that don't have as many people in them as major metropolii, so room is available.
Fourthly, the American economy is absolutely dependant on the cheap labor from immigration. The Dow would be in the crapper faster than you can say "Jack Robinson" if migrant working and immigration were to end.
Lastly, America is supposed to be a haven for all poor people and people who want to get ahead. Show me on the Statue of Liberty where is says "as long as arbitrary quotas are not exceeded" and I'll let the quotas stand.

[Jacob]

'The only jobs that illegal immigration take suck anyhow, so don't give me that ridiculous line "they took our jobs."'

I think that this can still be a valid argument. I mean, if you're a money-whore of an employer, what's the point in hiring your own citizens and paying them minimum wage, when you can hire immigrants and pay them for less. This then means that the people wanting a job, and will go for any in desperation, get looked over.

[Statikk HDM]

Yep, and they still find other ways to screw people. 7 cent an hour sweatshops or indentured servitude, anyone? Time clock fraud, anyone?
But the majority of "taken" jobs are either migrant working or incredibly sucky.
And my final point stands: America is still a slave nation. Sure, it isn't confronting you bodily every day but everything that America has is built on the backs of the poor and the oppressed. Check your tags on your clothes. I guarantee that unless you are diligent in the clothes you buy it isn't built by people paid a living wage.

[used:)]

And YOU'VE just described every major nation in the free world.

[soulstice]

'Britain did colonize a hell of a lot of countries, so we kind of brought this on ourselves in a lot of senses too.'

We rock though.

One of my main worries with Immigration is that a lot of the immigrants are from the Middle East. They are thus Islamic and are all against some of our more liberal views. If enough of them get in to our country, they could have a dramatic influence on our politics.

Yeah, I guess so. If there's one thing I can't stand in the world, it's Islam. There's something about every aspect of Islam that I hate. I don't know why. I believe it's main purpose is to poison it's follower's minds against the followers of other faiths and non-believers, the 'infidels' (I mean how ridiculous? Do all followers of other faiths and non-believers commit infidelity? Isn't this the same religion that allows polygamy and 7 virgins in heaven?). Islam is a religion of endless contradiction.

[Rich]

Islam is a religion of endless contradiction.

I agree. Especially with the 7 virgins thing. Killing, war and being unfaithful are morally wrong, but if you die in battle you shall go straight to Allah's side and recieve 7 virgins.

[Jacob]

'7 virgins in heaven?).'

I'm sure i heard somewhere that, that was a translation error and it wasn't 7 Virgins at all, but 7 of some kind of fruit.

[Leeum]

I've no problem with immigration. What really pisses me off is when they come over here and abuse the rights they didn't have in their country.

[Shrink]

Is anybody in Britain anxious when it comes to the possibility of being a minority-White?

Damn, missed most of the discussion.
I am very fearful of this possibility. Not because I am racist and see darker skin as distasteful, but because it will inevitably change our culture for what I see as being worse.
Look at the Netherlands. Arguably the most liberal country in the world. There's not much you can't get away with in good ol' Holland.
Now, take a closer look, and we see the Muslim population rising and rising. We see Muslims trying to change the laws, to make the country stricter, to ban things, to change people's way of life. I don't want it to change. It being liberal makes it one of the best countries in the world, and the Muslims ( and possibly other groups, such as the Sikhs, but I've forgotten) will undoubtedly destroy and ruin that. It annoys me a lot.
Controversal films, media, things that show people in negative lights become banned because certain groups (who would not be there without immigration) do not like them. This annoys me.
Furthermore, I've always seen immigrants as guests in the country, and that should respect the way the country works, not change it more to their liking. I consider that as rude, and outstaying any welcome they had.

So, I fear the rising of darker skinned people, because I fear what their beliefs and religion will do to the country. I fear that hundreds of years of progress will go out the window, and we may as well be in the Middle Ages (like America is), aside from the technology aspect.

I'm sure i heard somewhere that, that was a translation error and it wasn't 7 Virgins at all, but 7 of some kind of fruit.

Indeed. However, many of the extremists believe they will get seven Virgins, and it is half of the reason many of them attempt to suicide explode. This is what some said (in English) on that documentary where they questioned attempted suicide bombers who were inprisoned.

[Incognito]

Yeah, I guess so. If there's one thing I can't stand in the world, it's Islam. There's something about every aspect of Islam that I hate. I don't know why. I believe it's main purpose is to poison it's follower's minds against the followers of other faiths and non-believers, the 'infidels' (I mean how ridiculous? Do all followers of other faiths and non-believers commit infidelity? Isn't this the same religion that allows polygamy and 7 virgins in heaven?). Islam is a religion of endless contradiction.

I suggest doing some research on what "islam" truly is about and not making opinions based on the actions of some "muslims" or on how the media portrays them. Some "muslims" may very well believe that the non-believers aren't to be trusted, but that doesn't mean the religion itself propogates that view. (BTW I have never actually heard any "muslim" or the Quran use the word 'infidel' - I think that's only in the realm of hooked one-eyed fanatics ).

I'm sure i heard somewhere that, that was a translation error and it wasn't 7 Virgins at all, but 7 of some kind of fruit.

Yes instead of "chaste virgins" it is actually ripe grapes (no number is actually mentioned.)

[soulstice]

'Koran 78:31
As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and seven high-bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.'

Well, that puts that to rest. Islam indeed promises 7 virgins.

'I suggest doing some research on what "islam" truly is about and not making opinions based on the actions of some "muslims" or on how the media portrays them. Some "muslims" may very well believe that the non-believers aren't to be trusted, but that doesn't mean the religion itself propogates that view. (BTW I have never actually heard any "muslim" or the Quran use the word 'infidel' - I think that's only in the realm of hooked one-eyed fanatics ).'

Well, considering that we studied the Qu'ran at school, and wrote a coursework on the unit entitled 'Islamic views of the non-secular world' I think I have more insight into this than you do. Trust me, I've done hours of research into Islam and it's not a religion of peace. It glorifies the concepts of the Mujaheddin and Jihad. Islamic doctrine contains entries form scholars during the crusades that openly encourage muslims to 'lead the onslaught over the Western barbarians in the name of Allah'. It is you, that needs to research.

[Havoc]

Here in the Netherlands we have a huge immigration problem. Turkish, ppl from maroco, suriname, ect ect. I don't have a problem with ppl from diffrent country's. I do have a problem with the lazy ass morons who come here becouse they know we are a wealthy country with flexible laws which they can abuse to get money by sitting on their ass all day long. And the fun part is: Our goverment is actualy ALMOST promoting this stuff.
If an emplyoyer doesn't hire a black man and hires a white man instead... the emplyer is immediatly a racist and has a lawsuit on his pants. Positive racism my ass.

At least 50% of crime here is commited by foreign people, which is not me being a racist, it's a 'fact'. Even tho the goverment says otherwise; only thing we hear in the news is: Turkish this, Maroco's that... ect ect. But when they are confronted with it, they say we are giving them a bad name. Hey jackass! Your giving yourself a bad name.

A few years ago, a politician around here was killed becouse of the plans he had. Maybe you know him: Pim Fortuyn.
He had plans along the lines of closing the borders for everyone execpt war immigrants. People who need to leave their country becouse their life is in danger or people who have other good reasons to move here. And in fact, I support that idea. I'm not waiting for some rundown smuck from Maroco who moved in the appartment block next to my house, doesn't work, and is dealing drugs from his house, who moved in here becouse he knows that if he is cought dealing drugs here, he gets two years in jail TOPS, instead of the torture and death beating you get back in Maroco.

Our foreign policy is as stupid as it gets, and should seriously get fixed. But hey, everyone who dares opening his mouth is either killed or kicked out of the goverment... Nice policy we have... Go Dutch!

Ok, enough of my ranting. Again: I'm not a racist. I just hate stupid people and stupid policy's.

[Incognito]

'Koran 78:31
As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be gardens and vineyards, and seven high-bosomed virgins for companions: a truly overflowing cup.'

Well, that puts that to rest. Islam indeed promises 7 virgins.

I don't know where you got that translation from as there is no seven in those versee at all. Here are the verses properly translated,

78:31 As for the righteous, they will have success.
78:32 Gardens and vineyards.
78:33 And grapes that are ripe.
78:34 And a cup that is full.
78:35 They do not hear in it any vile talk or lies.
78:36 A reward from your Lord, in recognition for what is done.

No mention of any virgins at all in that verse but instead grapes. (It would make more sense for grapes to be in gardens and vineyards than virgins wouldn't it?)

Well, considering that we studied the Qu'ran at school, and wrote a coursework on the unit entitled 'Islamic views of the non-secular world' I think I have more insight into this than you do. Trust me, I've done hours of research into Islam and it's not a religion of peace.

There's a difference between learning from a textbook for a school assignment and actually studying the text of the Quran out of your interest using only the text and your own judgement. Have you actually ever read the Quran?

Islamic doctrine contains entries form scholars during the crusades that openly encourage muslims to 'lead the onslaught over the Western barbarians in the name of Allah'.

You do know that the crusades happened about 500 years after the compilation of the Quran? Just because a scholar says something or a muslim acts in a certain way does not mean it is actually the right thing to do.

If you actually knew anything about the true history of islam and the rise of the ulama (religious scholars) and how they used their own laws and implemented them into the religion of islam them you'd be a bit more understanding.

There are two sources of jurisdiction in traditional islam; the Quran and the hadith. Now it is the second source the hadith which is responsible for some of the most barbaric, misogynistic and downright disgusting laws and actions that muslims carry out in the name of islam.

Many muslims are taught that the hadith (a huge collection of the sayings and actions of the prophet Muhammad) along with the Quran was part of the revelation from God. That being said, many muslims don't know that the hadith were written and collected over 200 years after Muhammad's death using the oral traditions of the arabs passed down from generation to generation. So with each hadith (saying) there is a chain of narration that goes something along the lines of,

A was told by B that he had heard from C that D was talking to companion E who had heard from the prophet etc.

It's a bit like chinese whispers stretched out over 200 years. Any historian would obviously discard anything from the hadith as being inaccurate, yet they are still to this day used as a source of shariah law in "muslim" countries across the world. And not only that but they are used to interpret the verses of the Quran and to also translate them. (Hence why many translators do manipulate the arabic to translate "grapes that are ripe" to "Full breasted virgins".

So in conclusion it is not the actual islam that I have a problem with, but the literature of sayings that are falsely atrributed to the prophet by the ulama and leaders.