Stranger Live Ammo

[Lantra]

Hey Everybody,

This is my first post in quite some time but its good to be back. I was looking over all the new info about OSW and one question kept nagging at me. Does anyone know if the "live ammo" that Stranger uses dies when it is fired at the enemy?

[Xavier]

some do, like the boobats, yeah...

[Esus]

It would appear in the opening movie that some do not, such as bolamites and fuzzles, though it is likely that they will disappear in the game.

[Lantra]

Thanks for the info....Doesn't the fact that some creatures die strike anyone as a bit strange for Oddworld? I mean, Oddworld has always been about standing up for the little guy, rescueing helpless creatures and in general achieving good Quarma. The fact that Stranger forces creatures to die as ammo is more along the lines of the industrialists. Its very unethical and doesn't seem like Oddworld at all.

[Rich]

It's just a step in a new exploratory direction, which is what Lorne wanted for the new game. Just think of it as a break from Abe and Munch and a chance to see a different side to Oddworld.

[Lantra]

Oh I realize that the game as a whole is another side of Oddworld and I think that's awesome but the fact that it includes unethical elements is not going off in a new direction it's the exact opposite of the essence that Oddworld has maintained throughout its games. And unethical content shouldn't really be in any game, whether it's Oddworld or not.

[Rich]

the fact that it includes unethical elements is not going off in a new direction it's the exact opposite of the essence that Oddworld has maintained throughout its games

Exactly, Lorne wants us to play from a new perspective. In Hand of Odd you can chose to play as the Industrialists. It's just that Stranger is a different character type to Abe and Munch. He's a bounty hunter, he kills people for money which is kind of immoral. To Stranger animals dying would not matter much.

Basically Stranger is in a desperate situation and will take risks regarding his quarma.

[Wil]

Abe and Munch are terrorists that go around killing Glukkons and Sligs, which are intelligent, sentient creatures. By comparison, Stranger merely uses lowly animals on his crossbow.

The real ethics behind Live Ammo is that it's not violent weaponry, it's funny weaponry that makes you think about tactics, especially in regard to not killing your enemies, which earns you more Moolah.

[Alcar]

Not to mention that you have the choice of using melee attack as opposed to Live Ammo (in most cases, as it seems). It's going to be very enjoyable using both techniques.

Alcar...

[Lantra]

Exactly, Lorne wants us to play from a new perspective. In Hand of Odd you can chose to play as the Industrialists. It's just that Stranger is a different character type to Abe and Munch. He's a bounty hunter, he kills people for money which is kind of immoral. To Stranger animals dying would not matter much.

I hadn't thought of it that way Rich, that's a really good point. Hopefully as Stranger discovers who he really is he will become a bit more moral.

Abe and Munch are terrorists that go around killing Glukkons and Sligs, which are intelligent, sentient creatures. By comparison, Stranger merely uses lowly animals on his crossbow.

Abe and Munch only kill people who are trying to kill them and the Glukkons and Sligs have superior firepower and numbers, they are not helpless, innocent creatures that are forced to die. So Stranger is definetly more immoral than either Abe or Munch.

Not to mention that you have the choice of using melee attack as opposed to Live Ammo (in most cases, as it seems). It's going to be very enjoyable using both techniques.

It's cool that there will be a choice and I agree, it will no doubt be a lot of fun devising various strategies.

[Wil]

So Stranger is definetly more immoral than either Abe or Munch.

You say “definitely”, but I think that's a matter of opinion. Glukkons and Sligs are intelligent, sentient species, Boombats and Chippunkz are only animals. Killing a murderer is still murder, killing a rat is animal cruelty at best/worst.

Forgot to say it's great to see you back about, Lantra.

[Esus]

For a brief Halo comparison, Stingbees are machine gun ammo which chase enemies like the needles from a needler.
Boombats stick to enemies like plasma grenades. Zappflies are somewhat like the plasma pistol.

[oddguy]

It would appear in the opening movie that some do not, such as bolamites and fuzzles, though it is likely that they will disappear in the game.

According to this screen, the fuzzles do get hurt. Also hinting that maybe you can re-use some Live Ammo. Just speculating, but take a look.

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images..._screen005.jpg

-oddguy

[Lantra]

Thanks for the welcome Max, it's nice to be back. I would say that the killing of Sligs and Glukkons is self-defence more than murder. But you're right, it is a matter of opinion.

According to this screen, the fuzzles do get hurt. Also hinting that maybe you can re-use some Live Ammo. Just speculating, but take a look.

That would be awesome if you could reuse the Live Ammo, that way you would have to look after your critters a bit more, especially if catching them required a lot of effort and they weren't plentiful.

[oddguy]

That would be awesome if you could reuse the Live Ammo, that way you would have to look after your critters a bit more, especially if catching them required a lot of effort and they weren't plentiful.

Plus, I think it adds a layer of great depth and detail if you can see the damage on your ammo.

-oddguy

[Lantra]

It would certainly have a big effect on strategy, if your ammo was too damaged and you couldn't use it to take down an enemy you would have to think of a different plan. The graphics detail showing damage would be crazy.

[Esus]

I think that fuzzle is merely the upgraded version, the Rabid Fuzzle.

[Lantra]

Drat, there goes that theory. Oh well, perhaps if Stranger appears in later games they will implement the whole ammo damage thing.

[Nate]

Abe and Munch are terrorists that go around killing Glukkons and Sligs, which are intelligent, sentient creatures. By comparison, Stranger merely uses lowly animals on his crossbow.

I agree with Max. Lorne isn't trying to get us to go out, become vegetarians and live at one with the earth. After all, one of his hobbies is fly fishing.

[Lantra]

I agree with Max. Lorne isn't trying to get us to go out, become vegetarians and live at one with the earth. After all, one of his hobbies is fly fishing.

I never said he was Nate, I just mentioned that using helpless critters as ammo is not in keeping with the usual Oddworld perspective. At any rate there is a slight difference between fly fishing and strapping some animal to a crossbow and lobbing him at your enemies.

[Nate]

Yeah, fly fishing is for your own selfish enjoyment, whilst live ammo is using whatever is available in self-defence.

[Lantra]

Keep in mind that Stranger is a Bounty Hunter. He isn't fighting off people who are trying to kill him he is instigating battle by hunting people down, for money I might add, which is incredibly selfish. And if the people he is chasing don't use live ammo then he has the option not to.

[sullytheraptor]

But also, he's hunting down deadly criminals. And he doesn't have the option to kill them, he has to bring them in alive to get the bounty. And lets not forget that all of this is to pay for some procedure to save his life. And some of the live ammo seems to even enjoy helping stranger. He fires off a fuzzle and it patiently waits and attacks for him. Besides which, it's just a game.

[Lantra]

But also, he's hunting down deadly criminals. And he doesn't have the option to kill them, he has to bring them in alive to get the bounty. And lets not forget that all of this is to pay for some procedure to save his life. And some of the live ammo seems to even enjoy helping stranger. He fires off a fuzzle and it patiently waits and attacks for him. Besides which, it's just a game.

It's fine if the critters want to help him, I have no problem with that. A good point about the procedure but he is still sacrificing innocents to save his own life whereas Abe and Munch were sacrificing sadistic murderers to save their respective races. And there is no evidence that Stranger has to use Live Ammo, he could use the same ammo as the outlaws. And it's not just a game, games are a reflection of the real world and they can send powerful messages to people, I'm not saying that this game will make people abuse animals or something but immorality in any form tends to breed immorality whether on a large or small scale.

[Wil]

And there is no evidence that Stranger has to use Live Ammo, he could use the same ammo as the outlaws.

And support the arms trade? Sure, would you like some Nestlé with that?

The ammo the Outlaws use is designed to kill. There's no incapacitate ability. Live Ammo enables Stranger to peacefully incarcerate his enemies.

[Lantra]

Live Ammo enables Stranger to peacefully incarcerate his enemies.

If that's true then why does he need ammo the explodes? That sounds like it does more than just incapacitate.

And he wouldn't necessarily have to support the arms trade he could incapacitate a minor outlaw using his fighting skills, take the outlaw's ammo and not shoot to kill.

[Wil]

A shot in the shoulder is still violent, harmful, and above all messy. Using Outlaws' own ammo is stealing, which is always a sin, and is still no better because it still is profiting from an evil market. The exploding ammo is used to destruct the environment - it's obviously pretty nasty if you use it on the Outlaws. But then you wouldn't play the game like that... would you?

[Lantra]

A shot in the shoulder is still violent, harmful, and above all messy. Using Outlaws' own ammo is stealing, which is always a sin, and is still no better because it still is profiting from an evil market. The exploding ammo is used to destruct the environment - it's obviously pretty nasty if you use it on the Outlaws. But then you wouldn't play the game like that... would you?

I don't actually have a problem with Stranger going after, incapacitating or even killing the outlaws. At least they know what they are getting into when they become outlaws, my only problem is that he is sacrificng innocent creatures to do it. A shot in the shoulder is not fatal and can be healed. I'm not advocating total passifism here I'm advocating a higher degree of morality where possible in an immoral world. Taking the outlaw's ammo is not profiting from an evil market, if anything it is depriving the market of merchandise.

That last comment was uncalled for Max, this isn't about what kind of games I play, it's about the content of a game that everyone on this forum plays.

[Abeguy]

cool, live ammo!
sounds like a hippie's nightmare

[Esus]

The live ammo doesn't die. Inside gameplay, it disappears. Inside gameplay, chippunks dont disappear unless an enemy completely stamps it out.
So technically, you're not sacrificisng any innocent creatures.
And boombats would blow themselves up anyway.