Farenheit 911

[Codek]

War is the most ****ing stupid, primitive thing that anyone can resort to. No suprise George Bush resorted to it twice.

Wars are for the retarded, primative, backward African tribes, not for us intelligent, cultured, civilized people. George Bush assured the death of thousands in the name of American greed and lies.

Reason enough for him to not be re-elected. Reason enough for him to be tried as a war-criminal, and serve jail time, instead of serve America.

[paramiteabe]

None of you haven't still proved why George W Bush needs to be tried as a war criminal. You compare Bush to Hitler but you don't look at the facts that Hitler murdered millions of Jews because he dident like them.

Tell me where do you get your facts from if you know all there is to know? After all none of you have provided lagit evidence of the crimes inwhich you claim Bush has commited. All your doing is bashing Bush for crimes that you have yet to show evidence of.

[Codek]

None of you haven't still proved why George W Bush needs to be tried as a war criminal. You compare Bush to Hitler but you don't look at the facts that Hitler murdered millions of Jews because he dident like them.

Tell me where do you get your facts from if you know all there is to know? After all none of you have provided lagit evidence of the crimes inwhich you claim Bush has commited. All your doing is bashing Bush for crimes that you have yet to show evidence of.

He went to war on a lie. It's not top secret information. It's well known fact. Why does it have to be millions of lives taken before it counts as war crime? He's still a criminal.

[SeaRex]

No problem, Volsung. As the thread has already shown, this movie warrants its own topic.

Something PA might be interested in...

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?!

Of course, they totally grilled that guy on the Daily Show last night. Then again, the Daily Show could make Jesus look bad... and does so on a fairly regular basis.

"But unfortunately, Michael Moore is an elusive and unbelievably camera shy creature..." (Moore standing directly behind reporter)

[Hobo]

PA, once again us really cool liberals have proven you wrong. Shut up and leave.

[Codek]

PA, once again us really cool liberals have proven you wrong. Shut up and leave.

Yeah, liberals are good. Especially the UK liberal party. They aren't great but they are a hell of a lot less pathetic than the labor or conservative parties.

But I digress.

[Jacob]

I have to agree with PA here, i don't see how you can compare Bush to Hitler. Unless you're comparing Concentration camps to Guantamano Bay, which is a iffy subject, since none of us know the actual reasoning behind the captives there.

Other than that and some random invasions, i don't see why he's Hitler. Codek, you said Bush and Blair went to war on a lie, well yeah, they may have done. But it doesn't necessarily mean they knew it was a lie. Besides, Saddam was in breach of quite a few constitutions and he was just wanting his ass to be kicked.

[/devils advocate]

On a seperate issue, i actually heard Bush laugh the other day, it's a thooperlicious laugh and makes me want to hug him. Wheee!!

[paramiteabe]

Oh so now you claim you know all and the rest who are us conservatives know nothing? Your so full of it.

[Xavier]

wasn't Ousama the one who attacked the USA on their own soil?
not Saddam...


looks like: ousama attaked us, lets kick saddam

[paramiteabe]

Why do you think Bin Ladden is the only enamy of the world?

[Xavier]

did I say that?

anyway everyone knew Bush whas going to make war in Irak, even before 9 11
it was in his program...

[Statikk HDM]

Yep, Xavier.
The movie definately did have its moments, the explosion, the dead baby, speaking with the Mother whose son was killed in Iraq, but it really wasn't much of a documentary. It was, on the other hand, a bitchin' full-color, live action op-ed. On the Statikk-Ometer it nets a 4 out of 5.

[Volsung]

Of course Jacob's right about Hitler and Bush. They clearly aren't in the same league, as Hitler was an outright dictator and killed millions(?) of people. No one's saying Bush has created concentration camps and is conducting mass genocide. It just seems like his ideology isn't that different. And should we really wait until there are concentration camps before realizing he isn't the guy to follow?

Fact: Iraq was always dubya's target (There's some book by one of his top executives with taped meetings to this effect from--literally--day 1 of his presidency)
Fact: He has publicly declared he was "never really concerned with Osama" who is still at this time the leading suspect in the 911 bombings, as is the group "Al Quada" that he belongs to. A connection between Al Quada and Iraq is what Bush originally based the war on. The "danger factor" was Bush's unsubstantiated and currently disproven insistence that Saddam had WMD that he could use against the US.
Fact: US intelligence repeatedly gave Bush reports saying that "to the best of their knowledge" Al Quada had "no ties" with Iraq or Saddam Hussein.
Fact: Iraq has never attacked the US.

These four facts are all it takes to say that he sent us to war on a lie. If you want to support Bush, you have to accept this. Then you can move your argument on to: Saddam was a bad guy and we were right to act like international police. And probably someone will mention that the US originally proposed (or at least had a part in) the creation of the UN decades ago to act as international lawmakers and enforcers, thus negating the ability of any one country to give itself the role of the world's janitor.

[Shell Man]

PA, You said we should be ashamed because of all the innocent people killed on 911. But how would you respond to the FACT that Americans cheered the death of innocent Japanese men, women and children in Hiroshima, exactly the way AL Queada cheered 911? Please explain.

I'm not trying to justify what happened, I'm just saying that America is not squeaky clean in this situation, and Bush is not the voice of god.

[the brew master]

that is very true shell man...........and for all i care george bush can go **** him self up the ass.......because of him my brother is dead!

[MojoMan220]

PA, you are a victim of fear. Do you really believe George W. Bush is the reason why terrorists are not invading the U.S. Just to let you know, those terror alert levels will never lower to green. You have been fed these half-truths by an administration based on scaring people. The reason there have been no terror attacks is because they very rarely ever happen. Terrorists just don't seem to attack the U.S. all that often. Besides Osama's first attack on the World Trade Centers, 9/11 was the only real terrorist attack. You do realise that George W. was the one at the head of this country when we were attacked. It's odd that a memo saying Osama bin Laden determined to attack the U.S. wouldn't raise a few eyebrows. Now terror is all we here on the news these days. You are obviously not informed that most major news networks are owned by rich republicans. They are not too keen on allowing "liberal nonsense", so that argument is dead in the water. Saddam was pushed into power by the U.S., that is a fact. Like most ruthless dictators (there sure are a lot of em in this world) they tend to treat the inhabitants harshly. Why did the U.S. bomb the shite out of Iraq? I sure as Hell hope that Bush did not send our troops into that country to be shot at and killed because of that. We already know they lied about WMD's, so lets leave that alone. So I guess Bush's next plan of actions will be to bring down all the other nasty dictators, I mean that would make sense considering his reasons for blowing up Iraq. Your apparently not one to use logic in your rantings, comparing the ideals of Hitler to those of a liberal, I would certainly like an explanation for your reasons. Now I understand your mad at Osama and his gang, but those are really the only ones we can really blame. We have no idea where they are, and the president has said that he doesn't even care about them any more. Why aren't we going after the real bad guys?

[Shell Man]

Killing people was only half of the terrorist's plan. Making people react with fear, paranoia and vengeance is the other part. They're attacking us from within our own borders in more ways than one. The truth of the matter is that a nation like ours is alot easier to injure when everyone is panicking and angry. That's part of terrorism's purpose.

[ClaireBear]

its a poster of hitler and george bush.........and it says "same shit!"......"different asshole"

Now thats good! LOL!

[Codek]

To be honest this "threat in Iraq" stuff is a bit like Aliens landing on earth. It's possible, but there is no real evidence of it.

Personally, I do not think that nuclear and biological weapons are such an unstoppable threat that we need to go to war even if we suspect their existance. But does it really matter that a country possesses NBC WMD's? Surely America is guity of that "crime". Along with many other countries.

The fact is that we only know as much about Saddam as we're told. And there is no real way of verifying any of what we're told. We have no idea what he actually is. He may even be an innocent.

[Jacob]

I agree with Codek on this, and i have been thinking about the same thing for a long time. We only know about the "good guys" and the "bad guys" through the Media. Who's to say they're right? Or wrong? My Film Studies teacher always goes on about how people believe the Media too much and put too much faith in the papers etc, yet when i asked her how she formed her opinions of the BNP, she seemed to suddenly change her tune. Choosing to believe the Media rather than do her own research.

However, with Saddam it is clear he is not innocent and he is abit of a wanker. All you have to do is look at how his country reacted when he disappeared.

I'm now waiting for Mr Bush to de-tyranise a country that actually deserves it, such as Zimbabwe or South Africa or...some other random place with foreigners in...

[Codek]

However, with Saddam it is clear he is not innocent and he is abit of a wanker. All you have to do is look at how his country reacted when he disappeared.

Well they seemed happy enough to see Saddam's statue topple.

[Statikk HDM]

Why is the thing that is imminent always bad? For once why can't the news man say "It's imminent that Statikk will have a totally bitchin' day."

[MojoMan220]

Killing people was only half of the terrorist's plan. Making people react with fear, paranoia and vengeance is the other part. They're attacking us from within our own borders in more ways than one. The truth of the matter is that a nation like ours is alot easier to injure when everyone is panicking and angry. That's part of terrorism's purpose.

It's no longer terrorists that have to do the scaring, the news and the Bush administration are using the events of 9/11 to mantain fear. People who are afraid will consume, buying products they don't need. Bush is also using the fear to his advantage, saying he is the only one who can prevent another attack. As long as people believe evil is lurking around every corner they will think they need that protection.

[Majic]

I actually wouldn't mind seeing "Farnheit 911". I got to watch most of Bowling for Columbine today, and seemed to reassure my opinions of what I saw on Moore on CBS. Extreme bias and large amounts of propaganda, coupled with brilliant filmmaking. Reminded me somewhat of Penn & Teller. It's somewhat comforting knowledge to me that for all the Bush loving people buying chemical suits and stocking up on dehydrated food, there's still people laughing their rears off them.

[paramiteabe]

PA, you are a victim of fear. Do you really believe George W. Bush is the reason why terrorists are not invading the U.S. Just to let you know, those terror alert levels will never lower to green. You have been fed these half-truths by an administration based on scaring people. The reason there have been no terror attacks is because they very rarely ever happen. Terrorists just don't seem to attack the U.S. all that often. Besides Osama's first attack on the World Trade Centers, 9/11 was the only real terrorist attack. You do realise that George W. was the one at the head of this country when we were attacked. It's odd that a memo saying Osama bin Laden determined to attack the U.S. wouldn't raise a few eyebrows. Now terror is all we here on the news these days. You are obviously not informed that most major news networks are owned by rich republicans. They are not too keen on allowing "liberal nonsense", so that argument is dead in the water. Saddam was pushed into power by the U.S., that is a fact. Like most ruthless dictators (there sure are a lot of em in this world) they tend to treat the inhabitants harshly. Why did the U.S. bomb the shite out of Iraq? I sure as Hell hope that Bush did not send our troops into that country to be shot at and killed because of that. We already know they lied about WMD's, so lets leave that alone. So I guess Bush's next plan of actions will be to bring down all the other nasty dictators, I mean that would make sense considering his reasons for blowing up Iraq. Your apparently not one to use logic in your rantings, comparing the ideals of Hitler to those of a liberal, I would certainly like an explanation for your reasons. Now I understand your mad at Osama and his gang, but those are really the only ones we can really blame. We have no idea where they are, and the president has said that he doesn't even care about them any more. Why aren't we going after the real bad guys?

First of all we went into Iraq for a preemptive strike to prevent Saddam from produceing weapons of mass destruction. We dident go in there to get rid of the weapons because the weapons weren't there. It was the CIA who lied and gave the reports of WMD in Iraq to the administration. Now that Saddam is in court now and the country itself is getting back together and back into the Iraqi hands where you can go out and start your own business and be successful in Iraq is such a lift for the Iraqi people. The true enamy here is mainly us and the media. Why we are the enamy is because we are driveing ourselves crazy over the bad news in Iraq and not focusing on the good news and there is a lot of it comming out of Iraq. One of my friends just got back from Iraq and he saying that whatever the media or the left says about Iraq is absolutely false. Look republican or not libral or conservative we did this for a purpose and that was to bring freedom to the Iraqi people and they have that now. The terrorist are simply becomming the minority these days. You notice the few reports of attacks in Iraq. Its starting to die down but its not fully gone. The Iraqi people will handle this their way. We are going to leave within a year and a half from now. But the country is now in Iraq's control not ours. We are there to over see it.

[MojoMan220]

First of all we went into Iraq for a preemptive strike to prevent Saddam from produceing weapons of mass destruction. We dident go in there to get rid of the weapons because the weapons weren't there. It was the CIA who lied and gave the reports of WMD in Iraq to the administration. Now that Saddam is in court now and the country itself is getting back together and back into the Iraqi hands where you can go out and start your own business and be successful in Iraq is such a lift for the Iraqi people. The true enamy here is mainly us and the media. Why we are the enamy is because we are driveing ourselves crazy over the bad news in Iraq and not focusing on the good news and there is a lot of it comming out of Iraq. One of my friends just got back from Iraq and he saying that whatever the media or the left says about Iraq is absolutely false. Look republican or not libral or conservative we did this for a purpose and that was to bring freedom to the Iraqi people and they have that now. The terrorist are simply becomming the minority these days. You notice the few reports of attacks in Iraq. Its starting to die down but its not fully gone. The Iraqi people will handle this their way. We are going to leave within a year and a half from now. But the country is now in Iraq's control not ours. We are there to over see it.

Alright, let me get this straight... you actually believe that its okay to bomb a nation because their is a possibility that the leader might make WMD's? That makes no sense! First off, Saddam did not even have the resources to create WMD's nor have we found ANY lying around. We did not have to prevent Saddam from creating weapons, because that was never his plan. The Bush Administration lied about the weapons, you can believe whatever you want, but it is now a fact. Saddam killed many of his people and was an aweful person, but we did not have the right to declare war on the nation on that fact alone. Should we start traveling the world getting rid of the hundreds of people that fit a similar description? No.

[Jacob]

'Saddam killed many of his people and was an aweful person, but we did not have the right to declare war on the nation on that fact alone.'

It wasn't just that point that they went to war though, Saddam was breaking quite a few of the UN's constitutions and so deserved an ass kicking.

The thing that gets me is why did the US choose Iraq? Surely they could've gone after the main tyrants, such as the guys in South Africa or Zimbabwe etc.

[Codek]

War does not determine who is right.

But it does determine who is left.

[Lucipher]

One question. Who's Mike Moore?
And America killed more people than hitler! They started the aids virus!
So the reason why you have to wear a condom even when your girlfriend is on the pill is because of America!