Oddworld Forums > Zulag Two > Off-Topic Discussion


 
Thread Tools
 
  #1  
01-19-2002, 01:50 PM
Danny's Avatar
Danny
Wolvark Sloghandler
 
: Apr 2001
: York, England
: 3,961
Rep Power: 26
Danny  (11)
Me and Pinky

Okay, I don't know about anyone else, but I am sick of this constant bickering. I've decided to bring our differences out into the open, and try and get some kind of resolution for them...

Oft-asked Question: Why do you two go on arguing, even though you know neither of you are going to give in?

My Answer: Of course, I can't speak for Pinky, but I take part in these debates purely as an attempt to learn more about other people. I first started arguing with Pinky in an attempt to understand what she believes. I now, of course, have more than enough information, but still I go on. Why? Because I seek to understand why she believes what she does.

The way I see it, you can believe something for one of two reasons:

1) You have seen Evidence for it, and believe that that evidence outweighs any conflicting evidence.

2) Blind Faith.

There is no 'third way', since if there is no evidence, then you are by definition believing purely through Blind Faith. I would like to stress that I am not saying that this is necessarily a bad thing. In many ways, I envy those who can believe in something on Faith alone, for I am unable to...

Basically, I want to know whether Pinky considers herself to be believing through Blind Faith or through Evidence. She claims to have Evidence, but refuses to post it no matter how much we ask her to.

The purpose of this topic is to put an end to these arguments. For this purpose, I will require one of two responses from Pinky:

Either:
1) She posts the Evidence that she has for her beliefs,
Or:
2) She admits to Blind Faith, for good or bad.

There. It's simple. What's your answer, Pinky?
__________________

Guns don't kill people, People kill people! Using Guns.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
01-19-2002, 02:07 PM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

Why do you call christianity bling faith? Evolution to me is blind made up details, that some dead guy made up which he has'nt seen himself. Do you believe in Social Darwinism?

[ January 19, 2002: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

Reply With Quote
  #3  
01-19-2002, 02:11 PM
Danny's Avatar
Danny
Wolvark Sloghandler
 
: Apr 2001
: York, England
: 3,961
Rep Power: 26
Danny  (11)

Might I recommend that you read my post? I believe in Evolution because there is evidence. You have so far failed to show me any evidence for Creationism, therefore I must assume that it is just Blind Faith. Comprende?

Now could you just answer the question, please? Civilly, if you can; I don't want this topic turning into a bloodbath...
__________________

Guns don't kill people, People kill people! Using Guns.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
01-19-2002, 02:18 PM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

That is not evidence. There's some information out there without evidence and still can be true. Evolution, is not one of them because it does'nt not explain anything on how humans were nade, how the particles which they claimed made the earth appear. I know the theory on how the earth was made. That theory's not just because it does'nt explain specifically what came from what.

Reply With Quote
  #5  
01-19-2002, 02:20 PM
Danny's Avatar
Danny
Wolvark Sloghandler
 
: Apr 2001
: York, England
: 3,961
Rep Power: 26
Danny  (11)

Pinky, stop dodging the question with gibberish. Just answer the question, and we can put this all behind us...
__________________

Guns don't kill people, People kill people! Using Guns.

Reply With Quote
  #6  
01-19-2002, 02:24 PM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

*Sigh* What's your crazy question now so I can go and dye my hair.

Reply With Quote
  #7  
01-19-2002, 02:27 PM
Danny's Avatar
Danny
Wolvark Sloghandler
 
: Apr 2001
: York, England
: 3,961
Rep Power: 26
Danny  (11)

So you mean you posted in this topic without even reading it? The whole of my first post was the question! How could you miss it?

I'll reiterate it:

Do you beieve what you do because of Evidence or because of Blind Faith?
If you chose "Evidence", what is your evidence?
__________________

Guns don't kill people, People kill people! Using Guns.

Reply With Quote
  #8  
01-19-2002, 11:48 PM
Sydney
Oddworld Forums Founder
Queen of the Damned
 
: May 2000
: Australia
: 1,408
Rep Power: 25
Sydney  (32)

I don't care that you two argue, the only reason I may have over reacted earlier was because most of the debate consisted of punches at each other's spelling and grammar.

Other than that, I enjoy your chats. Sorry again if I over reacted...
__________________
The Glass Asylum

Reply With Quote
  #9  
01-20-2002, 03:05 PM
Gluk Schmuck's Avatar
Gluk Schmuck
Not living with Max any more
 
: Jul 2001
: Sheffield, UK
: 2,874
Rep Power: 25
Gluk Schmuck  (11)

:
Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
That is not evidence.(1) There's some information out there without evidence and still can be true.(2) Evolution, is not one of them because it does'nt not explain anything on how humans were nade, how the particles which they claimed made the earth appear.(3) I know the theory on how the earth was made. That theory's not just because it does'nt explain specifically what came from what.(4)
1. It is evidence. I don't see you showing-off any of your evidence (that is if you have any evidence at all).
2. There are plenty of facts which don't have any evidence. That's because no one knows what these facts are. For example, no one knows much about the far-reaches of our own galaxy, never mind the universe.
3. To me, at least, it explains everything perfectly.
4. Yes it does. Maybe your definition of science is different to mine.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
01-20-2002, 05:08 PM
Danny's Avatar
Danny
Wolvark Sloghandler
 
: Apr 2001
: York, England
: 3,961
Rep Power: 26
Danny  (11)

Tom, I deliberately avoided picking up on those things to avoid an argument... Now you've said that, she's going to use your post to be able to ignore my question, like she always does whenever someone asks her a question she has no answer to...
__________________

Guns don't kill people, People kill people! Using Guns.

Reply With Quote
  #11  
01-21-2002, 01:36 PM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

:
Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck:
1. It is evidence. I don't see you showing-off any of your evidence (that is if you have any evidence at all).
2. There are plenty of facts which don't have any evidence. That's because no one knows what these facts are. For example, no one knows much about the far-reaches of our own galaxy, never mind the universe.
3. To me, at least, it explains everything perfectly.
4. Yes it does. Maybe your definition of science is different to mine.

It's not evidence or facts! I mean, the information you gave me earlier Rettick, did not prove on creation. SO where's your proff on creation? I guess you don't have any. You did'nt answer my question on that did ya bud! You guys are like evolution and crap, what about creation of earth and what came from what? You never explained that so by that I don't believe in evolution and it's wrong!

I have to put my evidence on the next post. I have some.

Reply With Quote
  #12  
01-21-2002, 06:06 PM
Fazerina's Avatar
Fazerina
Super Stingbee
 
: Dec 2001
: Turku, Finland
: 492
Rep Power: 24
Fazerina  (22)

:
Originally posted by Rettick:
she's going to use your post to be able to ignore my question, like she always does whenever someone asks her a question she has no answer to...

Yeh. That's really annoying. How could we believe that she really stands up for her words and that she has evidence for her claims when she always ignores our questions. She hasn't answered any of mine.. When you don't answer and you change the subject.. it's obvious that you can't say anything that would support your claims..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
01-21-2002, 07:23 PM
Danny's Avatar
Danny
Wolvark Sloghandler
 
: Apr 2001
: York, England
: 3,961
Rep Power: 26
Danny  (11)

And you'll notice she did exactly what I said she would do...

Anyway, Pinky, there's a difference between Evidence and Proof. There is no Proof for my beliefs, but at least there is Evidence, whereas there is no evidence for Creationism.

Would you like to prove me wrong? If you would, then POST YOUR EVIDENCE! If you can't do that, then admit that you have none. It's as simple as that.
__________________

Guns don't kill people, People kill people! Using Guns.

Reply With Quote
  #14  
01-21-2002, 07:45 PM
Statikk HDM's Avatar
Statikk HDM
Outlaw Flamer
 
: Jul 2001
: Two Rivers
: 2,519
Rep Power: 25
Statikk HDM  (40)

Rettikk, lay your cards on the table and give me your dad blasted info so i can blow it up like a crippled duck!!! Where is yer evidence anyway, cause I had it up to this talking down to me an pinky cause you got "evidence" Bullshit! Bullshit to your nonexistentant evidence!
__________________
R.I.P. H.S.T.

I wanna have El Scrabino's man babies.

Reply With Quote
  #15  
01-21-2002, 07:54 PM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

:
Originally posted by Fazerina:

Yeh. That's really annoying. How could we believe that she really stands up for her words and that she has evidence for her claims when she always ignores our questions. She hasn't answered any of mine.. When you don't answer and you change the subject.. it's obvious that you can't say anything that would support your claims..
I did'nt answer? WEll, maybe because you never asked me any.

*Claps for Stat*

Where's you evidence on creation!? I see that there is none! Talk about me, what about you? Besides, I can give you evidence. Better than this made up Darwin information that some dead guy made up, who was never there when the Earth was created!

[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: PinkHaired Mudokon CWR ]

Reply With Quote
  #16  
01-21-2002, 07:58 PM
Fazerina's Avatar
Fazerina
Super Stingbee
 
: Dec 2001
: Turku, Finland
: 492
Rep Power: 24
Fazerina  (22)

I sure did. In the Big Bang Topic.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
01-21-2002, 08:00 PM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

Well can you restate it because I'm too lazy to look!

Reply With Quote
  #18  
01-21-2002, 08:04 PM
Danny's Avatar
Danny
Wolvark Sloghandler
 
: Apr 2001
: York, England
: 3,961
Rep Power: 26
Danny  (11)

Pinky (and Statikk), stop trying to change the subject. I refuse to believe that you are so ignorant you can't even remember our evidence even though we've done our best to hammer it through your thick skull on many occasion! You want our evidence? Go into practically any topic where we've argued, and it'll be there before your eyes!

Now stop playing dumb and just tell us: What is this Evidence you keep telling us about?

EDIT: Look what you made me do now. I tried to keep this topic flame-free, but then Statikk had to wander in and toss Petrol around everywhere...

[ January 21, 2002: Message edited by: Rettick ]
__________________

Guns don't kill people, People kill people! Using Guns.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
01-21-2002, 10:04 PM
abe22's Avatar
abe22
Sleg
 
: May 2001
: South/Eastern Victoria, Australia
: 680
Rep Power: 24
abe22  (10)

Pinky why can't you answer Dan's question? It's not hard. Do you want to know the question I asked in the Big Bang Topic but of course you never answered it. Well here it is
"If nothing bad was ment to be in the world why did god make the bad apple tree." But I don't Know Why I Bother you will not answer it anyway you will just change the subject like you allways do.
__________________
The trouble with real life is that there's no danger music.
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, because, man, they're gone.
If I ever get real rich, I hope I'm not real mean to poor people, like now.
Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff. -- Jack Handy
That stuff only happens in the movies. -- Famous Last Words

Reply With Quote
  #20  
01-22-2002, 12:59 AM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

:
Originally posted by abe22:
Pinky why can't you answer Dan's question? It's not hard. Do you want to know the question I asked in the Big Bang Topic but of course you never answered it. Well here it is
"If nothing bad was ment to be in the world why did god make the bad apple tree." But I don't Know Why I Bother you will not answer it anyway you will just change the subject like you allways do.

Why should I answer his ignorant questions, when he does'nt even answer mines? I told him to give me some evidence on creation, not evolution but he never answered it. Well he's not going to answer it, seems that he has no evidence to back it up. Besides, you guy won't understand the evidence. Like always.

Abe22, I'm sorry I did'nt answer your question. Don't be such a jerk like Rettick. But knowing you won't listen either.Why should I answer your question when you were so nasty:

"But I don't Know Why I Bother you will not answer it anyway you will just change the subject like you allways do"

You can forget it dude.

Reply With Quote
  #21  
01-22-2002, 01:28 AM
abe22's Avatar
abe22
Sleg
 
: May 2001
: South/Eastern Victoria, Australia
: 680
Rep Power: 24
abe22  (10)

Sorry if I am souding nasty Pinky I don't mean to. Dan made this topic he asked you a question first but you ignored him You probably ignored him because you can't admit that you don't have evidence and if you do please post it you said you would. And the reason you won't answer mine is because you don't know the answer. And if I ask you a question all you say is I won't listen how do you know that why would I bother posting the question if I was not going to listen to the answer even if I didn't post "Why should I bother" you will still say I won't listen because you have no answer.
Sorry again if this sounds mean.
__________________
The trouble with real life is that there's no danger music.
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, because, man, they're gone.
If I ever get real rich, I hope I'm not real mean to poor people, like now.
Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff. -- Jack Handy
That stuff only happens in the movies. -- Famous Last Words

Reply With Quote
  #22  
01-22-2002, 01:31 AM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

I would be happy to answer it! But there's other people complaining *coughs up Rettick* so I will get to you.

A accept your apology!

Reply With Quote
  #23  
01-22-2002, 01:46 AM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

Here's some general proofs:

Rule 1:

"For everything made, there is a maker"

If you have a table in your house, the chance is someone made it directly or indirectly for you. It did not made itself, or it was not made by a chance. Same rule applies for your car, your house, your clothes, your medicine, and everything else in your home or at your work.

The common sense says that there is a worker behind every work; there is a maker for everything made. Nothing is made by itself or by a chance. Sometimes things are complicated enough to take many steps and perhaps many people to work in until they reach you. Actually, it depends on two factors. First, how complicated this job is, and second, how much experience and intelligence the maker has. For example, you can find someone who is intelligent enough to finish a job by himself that is usually required many people to finish.

There is nothing in this universe that would not submit to this simple rule, everything is made by someone. For example, you will not believe someone who tells you that the complicated computer you are using now is made by a chance or by the nature! It will never happen. If we bring big pieces of some metals, chemicals, and leave them together, for even billions of year, are there a chance that they will react together in a very specific ways to create very specific memory chips, sounds, pictures - that governed by hundreds of scientific complicated equations and laws? What is the chance that they create very specific voltage, watts, bps, dimension, cache, network connection, modem speed, just to mention a few? Moreover, I have not mentioned the details of monitors, disk drives, or other very complicated parts! Also, I have not mentioned thousands of very complicated mathematical equations that work behind the seen. Examining the latest Y2K bug, it costs hundreds of billion of dollars just to fix the date. The fear of the consequences of Y2K was felt in every business. Any single computer has tens of thousands of line coding behind the seen. Sometimes, a single line of errors could disable your computer. Your computer will not be fixed even if it left alone for million of years. Nature will not fix it, and for sure it will not be fixed by a chance. The only way to correct your computer is to get a computer specialist to fix it. Now, who would believe, even for a second, that this computer could be created by a chance or by the nature? Few centuries ago, some people could believe this proclamation. But, today, after we discovered how compilcated everything in this universe, it is hard to beleive. United States spent billions after billions of dollars for over half a century, in research in Space. You ask any scientist, how much we know after all these years. The answer is very little. They will tell you how complicated the universe is, and how it is governed by millions of complicated laws that control everything in the universe. If you ask scientist about the smallest plant or animal, they will tell you how the system in each is fully equipped with wonders to keep each functioning smoothly. Can you tell me - in the age of science and technology- that all these come to existence by a chance or by nature? It will be a joke. Logically, it is not acceptable. In conclusion, we go back to the same simple rule in life, ‘for everything made there is a maker.’ Thanks to science. It helps us to get back to common sense.

This will lead us to an important question to visit:

How Things Are Made?

To make anything you need the following mix:

Materials or elements to use
Tools
Power to make things happen, such as electrical power, magnetic power, steam power, or human power.
Intelligence that applies common sense, physical laws, and logical thinking.
A touch of beauty that make things acceptable in smell, shape, and continuity.


To illustrate what I have mentioned above, let me take a simple task of making a table. First, you need materials such as refine wood, glue, nails, and paint. Secondly, you need tools to perform this task, such as hammers, pliers, and saws. Thirdly, you need human power, and perhaps electrical power to cut, glue things together. Fourthly, you need an intelligent person that understands the natural laws, the materials, and the ins and outs of the process. A power by itself, unless mastered by intelligence, could destroy instead of building. A power needs directions and control by an intelligent person to make it useful. You will not leave the materials to the wind power or the electrical power and assumes that they will make you a chair. Finally, you need a person that adds a touch of beauty to make the table doesn’t look ugly, but rather something beautiful, or may have a touch of great beauty.

Practice 1:

Think about something as big as a planet, or as small as a bacteria or about one function in human body or a mountain. Apply the above, common sense, rules to it. Think about what it takes to make it? Does time by itself is enough to create it? What is the chance for such a thing to happen- if there is any? Is it enough for the powers, by themselves, to make it without intelligence? And where this intelligence coming from?

Now, think about the beauty of what you select to think about. How beautiful is it? To have such a beauty, don’t you need a person with feelings to add beauty? Art and beauty needs feelings, this is the ABC of art. You cannot be an artist without a feeling. You can not express beauty unless you have a soul that tastes beauty. Apply this now to what you have selected to think about.

What is your conclusion?

Now, I would like you to think thoroughly about what we have concluded so far before we get deeper in lesson two.



Lesson Two:

Before advancing to lesson 2, it is better to summarize some of the rules of what we have learned so far.

Rule 2:

A power by itself, unless mastered by intelligence, could destroy instead of building. A power needs directions and control by an intelligent person to make it useful.

Rule 3:

Beauty needs feelings. Without feelings there is no beauty. To have a feeling, you need a person


Now let us continue in our discussion:

Rule 4:

There should be a first maker

To explain what I meant by rule number 4, let us talk about the bread on your table. Someone in your household had bought it from a store. Before that a driver carried it to the store. Just before that another person put it in a plastic, and another person before the last bake the bread. We can continue in this series of actions until we reach the person who plant the seeds in the first place.

So, all the actions will eventually come to the first action, in another word it comes to a person who was the initiator. Similar to a train, the last car in the train is pulled by the one just in front of it, and this one is pulled by another car ahead of it. All cars are pulled by another. But the end you have to have a beginning, an engine car that has the power to pull all the other cars. A one that has is the beginning of action, the initiator, the source, and the reasons for movement of all other cars that follows it.

Through a simple explanation, things you see are made of others, and those of others are in return made of others, and so on, until you reach the very first source. Because, it has to be a first source, a beginning. For example, a car is made of so many complicated systems, each composes from different component, and each component is made of different materials. These materials are made of different elements. So, finally, you reach the very basics, the elements such as iron, hydrogen and oxygen.

These elements are the basis for each material in the universe. Examining each element, you find its wonderful inner system that consists atoms that has electrons, protons and neutrons. Now, we come to the basics of basics, the beginnings of beginning. So, the whole universe is consisting from atoms. But in a wonderful and very intelligent ways the atoms arranged in different ways to make unique element, and these elements in return combined to produce materials, each is so unique also.

Let us think about what made the atom with all the laws and mathematical complicated equations that control its formation, its component, its unique characters, and its special behaviors in different positions and environments.

Could it be possible that nature, as a collective body of power, made the atom?

If we stop for a moment to think, our conclusion would be ‘no.’ It is impossible for just a power to think, plan with a vision that will build on the existence of an atom a whole universe, build an atom with the amazing structure as we know it today, and keep the structure from not being destroyed by another power or by a component of the original power. To keep something, you need to create the environment that keeps it. To create that environment, you need to understand in advance what are you trying to protect and the components of environment and the power balance of it. Can any power do that without intelligence, very high intelligence with very high understanding?

It is amazing to listen to scientists when they are making an experience and trying to understand all the factors that could affect the chemical reaction, for example, and try to control one factor at a time to reach a controlled experience. So, they admit that there are stable materials, and there are factors, and to make any intelligent changes you have to study hard and to make hard choices, and sometimes they can predict the end-result product. Some do all that in the laboratory, but when it comes to a discussion like ours they insist that nature made everything! How it could be my beloved scientist? If you, with all your intelligence and understanding, spend years trying to control the experience’s environment, how could you imagine that without any controlling the nature formed everything. We are dealing at the basis now, at the atom level, would it make sense that there should be an intelligent being who without any materials, at the time of beginning, formed the first component of a material, the atom. Don’t you agree with me that such a person has a great knowledge of all powers that exist in the universe? Don’t you think that intelligent being is so genius that he made the whole universe just out of these few components of atom?


Now we come to the conclusion of the following rule:

Rule 5:

In the beginning was a very intelligent being who put together the atom.

Practice:

Think about the different elements: iron, copper, chlorine, sodium, and radium. Compare the different characters of each. If you have a friend who works in chemistry, ask him about the difference in between each atom. See for yourself how a difference in one electron and proton can make a big difference. Could be done by non-intelligent power?


Lesson 3:

The Amazing Systems

We stopped last at the very component of the matter, the atom and its component of electrons, protons, and neutrons. Now, we will examine something very large indeed, the Solar System. Look at the planets of the Solar System going around the sun. Earth, Venus, March, and the rest they go in circles around the sun. Very similar of what happens in the atom. In the atoms go in circles around the nucleus. We should stop here to think about what we see. The smallest is matching the largest. Isn’t that tell us about a one intelligent being that made both systems, and of course everything in between because everything in between is made of the atoms?

Here is the stamp of that intelligent being on both. They are not similar on the structure only, but to have these structures, you have to have similar power that keeps each in its place without being attracted to one another.

To made control of these powers in its smallest form. In atoms, and its largest form, in the solar system, you have to have understanding of all the power in the universe, the smaller and the bigger. You have to have control over the smallest and the largest powers in this universe. To have all these intelligence and power before starting of the matters, who is that being?

He should be all almighty, all-powerful, and all intelligent.

Rule 6:

There is one very intelligent being who made both the atom and the solar system, which is all almighty, all-powerful, and all intelligent.



Lesson 4:

Everything in Between the Atom and the Solar System

We stopped in last lesson at our comparison between the atom and the solar system. We concluded that both are having the same structure and power-controlling system. With this kind of similarities, the maker should be the same intelligent being. Everything in between these two, the smallest and the largest, are made of atoms: waters, rocks, mountains, mud, sands, and the rest. So, everything in between has the same structure. In other words, it was made by the same intelligent being. The same engineer who invented the first theory and made the atoms, afterwards, he used the atom to form everything else. He is the powerful being that used the original structure to apply to all. He first made the atom that can not be seen the naked eye, and used it in making the elements, and from the elements he made everything else.

I would like to imagine for a moment a universe in its first moments, a universe without earth or sun or anything else. Then came this intelligent being and made the atoms. You can imagine now that there were only useless atoms. The same being started shaped each atom differently to start having different elements. From the elements everything else was composed. Like a beautiful symphony composed with smaller tones by its composer, the world was composed from these elements by the same maker.

Therefore, scientifically, in the very beginning there were nothing until the atom was made and this was the beginning of making of this world.


If I am a pioneer who started a wonderful piece of art or a theory, people will not call me a maker, but a creator. If that intelligent being who started the atom, and the matter along with it, and from it everything else, isn’t appropriate to call him the creator, the father of the creation, and not only a maker. Doesn’t he deserve the title ‘The Beginning’, the alpha.


Lesson 5:

Who Is That Great Creator?

So far we have seen that being started the matter, and we could see his work grow from the smallest until it reached the largest. All made of the same elements. In a wonderful controlled-universe, he kept the characters of each element, chemical compound, and materials.

We need to think about the largest, the solar system with its an imaginable size. He, the creator, formed cleverly. Using the same theory, he balanced the power in a way that left all these planets go in circles around the sun. To make that huge-powerful system, what kind of a creator you are? You can’t be a short person. Even, if you are tall, how tall to reach the sun and manage her power with March?

The solar system is a part of a galaxy. Then, he took part in creating that galaxy too. Now, you can build on this knowledge in a step by step process, until you reach the conclusion that there is one creator of the entire universe.

Reply With Quote
  #24  
01-22-2002, 01:55 AM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

I have some on dinos but i gotta go to bed. Later.

Oh and I forgot, there's your evidence! Happy now?

Reply With Quote
  #25  
01-22-2002, 02:11 AM
abe22's Avatar
abe22
Sleg
 
: May 2001
: South/Eastern Victoria, Australia
: 680
Rep Power: 24
abe22  (10)

:
Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
Where's you evidence on creation!?
Here's some evidence Pinky. Just remember that evidence means that it COULD of happened not that it did but it could OK!

Our Universe

Two and a half models

The steady state theory of cosmology claims that the Universe simply exists without changing with time. This theory presents many physical as well as philosophical difficulties. Evidence suggests that the Universe is expanding. While there are ways to explain expansion in a steady state universe, few astrophysicists believe this theory, because there is little evidence to support it. As the first widely held theory about the Universe it is included here for historical completeness.

The big bang theory states that at some time in the distant past there was nothing. A process known as vacuum fluctuation created what astrophysicists call a singularity. From that singularity, which was about the size of a dime, our Universe was born.

It is hard to imagine the very beginning of the Universe. Physical laws as we know them did not exist due to the presence of incredibly large amounts of energy, in the form of photons. Some of the photons became quarks, and then the quarks formed neutrons and protons. Eventually huge numbers of Hydrogen, Helium and Lithium nuclei formed. The process of forming all these nuclei is called big bang nucleosynthesis. Theoretical predictions about the amounts and types of elements formed during the big bang have been made and seem to agree with observation. Furthermore, the cosmic microwave background (CMB), a theoretical prediction about photons left over from the big bang, was discovered in the 1960's and mapped out by a team at Berkeley in the early 1990's.


The Cosmic Microwave Background

After some period of time following the big bang, gravity condensed clumps of matter together. The clumps were gravitationally pulled towards other clumps and eventually formed galaxies. It is extremely difficult to model how this clumping may have occurred, but most models agree that it occurred faster than it should have. A possible explanation is that right after the big bang the Universe began a period of exaggerated outward expansion, with particles flying outward faster than the current speed of light. This explanation is known as inflation theory, and has widespread advocacy within the astrophysics community because it reconciles theory with observation. It should be noted, however, that inflation theory is not directly verifiable.

Whether you believe inflation theory or not, galaxies did form. And since they formed from matter that was moving rapidly, they also move rapidly. Due to a phenomenon called doppler shifting, the wavelength emitted by something moving away from us is shifted to a lower frequency, and the wavelength of something moving towards us is shifted to a higher frequency. A good example of this
is the sound of a fire truck siren as it drives by; the pitch of the siren is higher as the fire truck moves towards you, and lower as it moves away from you. Although this example illustrates the effect for
sound waves, the same effect occurs for all wavelengths (incuding light), the result being that visible wavelengths emitted by objects moving away from us are shifted towards the red part of the visible
spectrum, or redshifted. And the faster they move away from us, the more they are redshifted. Thus,
redshift is a reasonable way to measure the speed of an object (this, by the way, is the principal by which radar guns measure the speed of a car or baseball). Here's the point: When we observe the redshift of galaxies outside our local group, every galaxy appears to be moving away from us. We
are therefore lead to the conclusion that our Universe is expanding. This is called hubble expansion, after Edwin Hubble, who discovered the phenomenon in 1929.

Here's a subtle point that you may have wondered about: If we look out into the Universe and every galaxy we see is moving away from us, doesn't that mean that we are at the center of the Universe?
The obvious answer seems to be 'yes', but actually the answer is 'no'. Hopefully the following analogy will explain why. Image a loaf of raisin bread baking in the oven. As the bread bakes it gets bigger, and every raisin moves away from every other raisin. Now imagine that you are sitting on one
of the raisins (ignore the heat of the oven). All the other raisins are moving away from you, so you might conclude that you are at the center of the loaf of bread. But if you were on a different raisin you would also see every raisin moving away from you and would also conclude that you are at the center of the loaf. The same thing is happening in the Universe. No matter where you are in the
Universe, every galaxy you see is moving away from you. That's why astrophysicists say that you shouldn't talk about the center of the Universe; there really is no center of the Universe.

The oscillatory Universe model claims that the Universe started with a big bang, and that it is currently expanding. Eventually, however, the expansion will slow, stop, and then the Universe will begin to contract. The contraction will continue until all of the mass of the Universe is contained in a
singularity, a process known as the big crunch. The singularity then undergoes a big bang, and the process begins afresh. Although we shall discuss reasons why this is probably not the case, it does explain what happened before the big bang.

Top three reasons to believe big bang cosmology

1.Big Bang Nucleosynthesis
2.Cosmic Microwave Background
3.Hubble Expansion

Current Big Questions in Cosmology

Is the Universe Closed?

The question of whether the Universe will collapse in a big crunch or continue expanding forever hinges on knowing the density of the Universe. Density is defined as mass divided by volume. One can measure the density of the universe by observing the local group of galaxies and assuming that
the Universe is all the same. One can also calculate the density required such that the Universe will eventually stop expanding. That density is called the critical density, and the ratio of the observed density to the critical density is given by the Greek letter omega. If omega is less than one the
Universe will continue expanding until it is so large that it dies a cold death. If omega equals one the Universe will eventually stop expanding but will not collapse. In this case the Universe will also die a cold static death. But, if omega is greater than one, then the Universe is doomed to collapse under
it's own gravitational mass, and will die a hot, fiery death in a big crunch. But don't worry, the ultimate fate of the Universe is atleast ten billion years away.

For theoretical reasons, cosmologists believe that omega = 1. Unfortunately, attempts to measure omega yield results of about 0.1.

What is the Universe made from?

When astrophysicist Vera Ruban looked at Galaxies, she noticed a curious problem. She expected that the outer parts of a galaxy would move slower than the inner parts. But she found that this is not the case. The rotation curves of galaxies (a graph of the radius of a galaxy versus rotational speed) is flat, meaning that the outer parts move at the same speed as the inner parts. Large amounts of mass would account for the unexpected speed, but we don't see the mass that should be there.

To aid your understanding of this, think of how planets revolve around the Sun in our solar system. Mercury (the closest planet to the Sun) zips around the Sun in 88 days, but it takes the furthest planet, Pluto, 248 years to orbit the Sun. If there were a solid sphere of mass between the Sun and Pluto, than Pluto's orbital period would be the same as Mercury's. No one is suggesting that galaxies are actually solid spheres of matter, but there must be more mass in these galaxies then we can see. Because we can't see it, the mass is called dark matter.

Dark matter may account for up to 90% of the Universe's total mass. Bernard Sadoulet, who leads a search for dark matter at theCenter for Particle Astrophysics has stated that "Not only can we not see what most of the Universe is made of, we aren't even made of what most of the Universe is made of!" What did he mean by this? Scientists tend to categorize everything and matter is no
different. The matter you are familiar with, matter composed of neutrons and protons, is called baryonic matter. Non-baryonic matter also exists, but is generally difficult to detect. Professor Sadoulet's experiment is looking for exotic, non-baryonic particles called WIMPs. WIMP stands for Weakly Interacting Massive Particle. There is a great deal of theoretical work which suggests that WIMPs exist and probably account for a large fraction of dark matter.

If you don't believe that WIMPs exist, you aren't alone. But some sort of exotic non-baryonic dark matter is required for omega = 1. Big bang nucleosynthesis limits the total number of baryons to be a
fraction of the Universes total mass. And since there are compelling reasons to believe big bang nucleosythesis, and also that omega = 1, one is led to the conclusion that there must be exotic non-baryonic dark matter. Note the use of the word exotic. Neutrinos are another type of non-baryonic particle, but are not considered exotic. Neutrinos do exist, in huge numbers, but all known neutrinos have zero mass. The search continues for neutrinos with mass, but a massive neutrino is unlikely to completely account for the flat nature of galactic rotation curves. Hence, an exotic class of non-baryonic dark matter particle must exist if WIMPs do not.

There are several candidates for baryonic dark matter. MACHOs (Massive Compact Halo
Objects) are objects about the size of Jupiter. Jupiter is quite massive, but like all planets, does not emit any light of its own; it only reflects sunlight. Although we can see Jupiter quite well from Earth,
chances are that someone looking at our solar system from any far distance would not be able to see Jupiter. So, it is reasonable to assume that there are Jupiter-sized objects in other solar systems that we cannot see. By a technique known as micro-lensing, several MACHOs have already been found.
VMOs (Very Massive Objects) are about 100 times more massive than our Sun, which makes them very heavy indeed. They are likely to be found in the form of black holes. By the way, in case you're wondering whether the existence of many Earth-sized objects might account for all the dark matter, bear in mind that Jupiter is roughly 300 times more massive than Earth. Thus you would need so
many Earth-sized objects that the galaxy would be littered with them.

A Golden Age for Cosmology

These are exciting times for cosmologists. New telescopes, space missions, and experiments are generating data at an awesome rate, and new experiments are going online almost daily. The early part of the twenty-first century promises to be an amazing time for astrophysicists. And hopefully, we'll find answers to some of the big questions.
__________________
The trouble with real life is that there's no danger music.
If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let'em go, because, man, they're gone.
If I ever get real rich, I hope I'm not real mean to poor people, like now.
Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff. -- Jack Handy
That stuff only happens in the movies. -- Famous Last Words

Reply With Quote
  #26  
01-22-2002, 03:46 PM
Fazerina's Avatar
Fazerina
Super Stingbee
 
: Dec 2001
: Turku, Finland
: 492
Rep Power: 24
Fazerina  (22)

:
Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR:
The common sense says that there is a worker behind every work; there is a maker for everything made. Nothing is made by itself or by a chance.
I don't remember everything I asked you and I'm also too lazy to look right now but one of my guestions was "If god created everything who created god?" Because, like you just said, if there's a worker behind every work, if there's a maker for everything made, if nothing is made by itself or by a chance then someone had to create him as well. There's no logic in that that he just excisted by himself. You just said it yourself.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
01-22-2002, 05:37 PM
Gluk Schmuck's Avatar
Gluk Schmuck
Not living with Max any more
 
: Jul 2001
: Sheffield, UK
: 2,874
Rep Power: 25
Gluk Schmuck  (11)

:
Originally posted by Fazerina:
"If god created everything who created god?"
*is mildly annoyed at Fazerina for getting there first*
Fair is fair...

I would ask this question but you and your before-me-ness asked it first...

*grumbles*

[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Gluk Schmuck ]
Reply With Quote
  #28  
01-22-2002, 05:50 PM
Fazerina's Avatar
Fazerina
Super Stingbee
 
: Dec 2001
: Turku, Finland
: 492
Rep Power: 24
Fazerina  (22)

lol Sorry Gluk. But this is really already a second time that I ask it from Pinky..
Reply With Quote
  #29  
01-22-2002, 07:31 PM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

Your asking the wrong person. I don't know who made God.

If evolution is write, then what made the particles and atoms to make humans and animals then? What made the universe?

Reply With Quote
  #30  
01-22-2002, 07:32 PM
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR's Avatar
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Outlaw Hunter
 
: Apr 2001
: Rochester, New York
: 2,810
Rep Power: 25
PinkHaired Mudokon CWR  (11)

Your asking the wrong person. I don't know who made God.

If evolution is write, then what made the particles and atoms to make humans and animals then? What made the universe?

No No fa. I mean, nothing like the Earth or the universe can make it's self without a producer.

Reply With Quote


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 








 
 
- Oddworld Forums - -