Russia, Ukraine and Neo-Zhilploshchad'

STM · #1 09-02-2014, 06:34 AM

I figured this could spur a little discussion and act as a much needed defibrillator for OT.

Look I compared Russia to the Nazis. That there up in the title is romanised Russian for 'lebensraum', what with the shift in policy to 'protect' Russian minorities in sovereign nations, and Hitler invading Poland 75 years ago yesterday after his lebensraum policy inevitably failed, I thought that was a poignant parallel to make.

So any way, an advisor to the Kremlin has talked about a shift in Russian military policy as a response to a build up of NATO member nations on its borders. He hasn't stated what that means but I guess it's not gonna be fun. I'm wondering if this Cold War stand off over Ukraine will amount to anything. Thus far the EU has done jack except discuss future discussions. That being said though, I hope it does stay a war of words though...

Any way opinions? Anyone think Russian imperialism is justified?

OANST · #2 09-02-2014, 06:39 AM

I have a feeling this doesn't end well for the Ukraine. As long as Russia keeps escalating this as slowly as they have been, they are probably going to get away with it. No one wants to go to war with them.

Varrok · #3 09-02-2014, 07:16 AM

I really hope Russia won't be my close neighbor, so my bet is on Ukraine. It won't be wonderful if they lose

STM · #4 09-02-2014, 07:30 AM

Things is Ukraine doesn't have a hope in hell of maintaining territorial integrity so long as the separatists are backed by the Russian military. You have to remember the Russians are the 2nd biggest military spenders in the world whilst Ukraine is 21st.

On top of that as far as I understand it the Ukrainian government genuinely feels regret at fighting its own people and shows some restraint in its operations whilst the Donetsk separatists and Russian covert troops are giving no such luxury.

Unless there is some sort of intervention we can probably expect to see the eastern 1/3 of Ukraine as an independent nation before too long. Just as Crimea is now pretty much a vassal of the Federation.

OANST · #5 09-02-2014, 07:49 AM

I'm thinking that they won't be an independent nation for long. Russia will be only too happy to embrace them into the motherland.

STM · #6 09-02-2014, 07:51 AM

I think that's what the plan is. As far as I'm aware Russia intends to absorb Crimea as a federal constituent. I think I heard something suggestive of the same thing for Donetsk as well.

Mr. Bungle · #7 09-02-2014, 01:18 PM

What I don't understand is why they're doing this to the Ukraine in the first place. I mean, isn't Russia big enough as it is?

Or does Putin just have a small penis?

STM · #8 09-02-2014, 01:46 PM

Ukraine has some pretty dope fossil fuel reserves. I assume that's why.

Holy Sock · #9 09-03-2014, 02:43 AM

I'm not particularly read up on the issue besides a general chronology but, Mr. B, I believe it kicked off when Ukraine's former President, Viktor Yanukovych, agreed to more co-operation with Russia over the EU. Then essentially a revolution broke out and Yanukovych eventually fled. Then the pro-Russian element in Ukraine began large protests against the new govt.

Russia weren't happy with what they seem to consider an illegitimate coup and eventually annexed the Crimean peninsula - which has a majority of ethnic Russians. Then there was a very dubious treaty in which Crimea is to become a part of the Federation.

And then Russia started to back Ukrainian insurgents - not officially - there's been clashes in Ukraine between them and govt. forces known as the War in Donbass (the Donbass region). That Malaysian Airlines was shot down.

And now they seem to be trying to make steps towards a ceasefire.