moral preaching

[LDG519]

I recently had a descussion with one of my christen friends that started off as how often should you preach to your friends that progressed to the morallity of certain preaching methods.

everyone said that I should keep bringing up the subject of religion to my friends even if I know it offset's them and have been asked by them not to discuss it, my opinion is you shouldn't intentionally offset your friends and doing so is immoral.

later we discussed the morallity of preaching methods and he mentioned something were they spend time reserching the mind set of a particular type of person in order to preach to them in a way were they would understand better, I personaly think this is a bit manipulative, as you should preach the same way to everyone and if they don't understand rephrase, but don't spend weeks or months or even years reserching the psychology of a type of person in order to preach to them better.

another thing that I brought up was reserching one particular religion, in order to convert people by destroying thier faith and using your faith to fill the void that was created, which I'm pretty sure that happened to me when mum converted me from LDS to christen, thier are even books written instructing people how to shake the morman religion, and even if the religion is wrong, it is still wrong to convert someone by destroying what they know and offering your belief system as a replacement.

this next thing wasn't mentioned in the discussion but in the services they often get the everyone to stand and read out what they call the lords confession, and I have to say I've always been a bit disturbed by that, I don't read it out myself because of it.

so this thread is intended to be discussing an assortment of preaching methods and ho moral or imoral they may be.

[Alcar]

I'm fairly sure the Bible makes it clear.

Alcar...

[JennyGenesis]

But not all of us like reading

[Alcar]

Also that whole thing about whether women have the right to speak out. Kind of difficult to preach then.

Alcar...

[DarkHoodness]

Good luck with talking about that here.

IMO, the act of preaching itself is pretty immoral to start with, let alone any different methods - Religion should never be forced on anyone, particularly those who can't think for themselves and don't know better, i.e. children. If it is done at all, key points of ones beliefs should be laid out clearly infront of other people, and it ultimately should be entirely up to them if they want to believe in those same things, and any decisions and current beliefs should be respected - Including if they would rather not talk about it.

EDIT: I'm aware I may be misreading something here, I should sleep or something.

[LDG519]

Good luck with talking about that here.

IMO, the act of preaching itself is pretty immoral to start with, let alone any different methods - Religion should never be forced on anyone, particularly those who can't think for themselves and don't know better, i.e. children. If it is done at all, key points of ones beliefs should be laid out clearly infront of other people, and it ultimately should be entirely up to them if they want to believe in those same things, and any decisions and current beliefs should be respected - Including if they would rather not talk about it.

EDIT: I'm aware I may be misreading something here, I should sleep or something.

that's pretty much how I see things, it should be explained once, more times if invited to only, and most importantly don't keep shoving it down thier throats if they've clearly said they don't wan't to talk about it

[JennyGenesis]

Anybody else remember this?

It worse than preaching!

Though I think I would actually go in for a Gay Exorcism becuase I would love to be able to dance like a worm.

[Daxter King]

later we discussed the morallity of preaching methods and he mentioned something were they spend time reserching the mind set of a particular type of person in order to preach to them in a way were they would understand better, I personaly think this is a bit manipulative,

Welcome to advertising, and yes, it is very manipulative.

My favorite quote on this topic:
"Preach the Gospel always, and if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi

Essentially, actions speak louder than words.

[STM]

I don't like preachers, no preachers at all. Except Jesus and his followers. Those guys were cool. But in the modern day, you don't have anything to preach about. Once Jesus comes back then fair enough get on that shit.

[JennyGenesis]

*Stares at watch*

Damn! Christians have a lot of patience...

[Ridg3]

What irritates me so very much is having those cunts walking outside handing out leaflets saying that I'm going to go to hell if I don't change my ways. I just ball them up in my hand, whilst they're watching and toss it aside (I pick it up and bin it afterwards though.)

The worst kind of preachers are the kind that knock on your door and try to invite themselves into the house to talk about Jesus. Seriously, as much as I hate them, everyone has to try this; When they come a-knocking, tell them you're Luciferian. The look on their face is just priceless.

[STM]

I just tell them that I'm a Catholic of the one true apostolic Church and that I am already saved. ^_^'

[JennyGenesis]

I just take the leaflet and bin it afterwards, I don't wanna waste time standing there telling them I'm an atheist, it's easier to take the leaflet because you can do it whilst walking and your walking wont be stopped.

I was feeling rather depressed once and there was a particular friend I wanted to hang with that I knew would help me, she said she was going to a BBQ at a church but I was welcome to come along if we needed a chat. So I went and spoke to her about what I needed to and even though it was quite an entertaining evening with her and a few of her friends, the church wanted me to join them and I was stuck in like a 30 minute conversation about it. I made a promise to go attend the church that Sunday just so I could escape and go home, as you can probably guess, I had a nice lie in on that Sunday.

[Bullet Magnet]

On the one hand we all prefer that they keep their nonsense to themselves, and I appreciate your attitude, LDG519.

On the other hand, I agree with them. So long as freedom of speech and freedom of religion is protected, so is preaching. It's fine, if annoying. I don't see how you can be a good Christian and not preach. Good person, yes, which obviously I think is more important. But not a good Christian.

But if you're going to go out and proselytise, do it properly. Research your target and tailor your argument to them. At the very least I'd expect them to already know all the counter arguments that person would come up with and how to placate them. Though this never happens.

Tell your friends that they are welcome to come here and try it on with us, at their own risk.

[STM]

If someone wants to become a Christian or hear the word of God they know where to go, they don't need it fisted down their throats. Personally I find the Hindu's the worst because not only do they try to convert you they ask for money and go dancing about the high street following people who try to ignore them.

[Wings of Fire]

Wow, that sounds like bullshit.

[STM]

Unfortunately not, if you're ever in Watford on a weekend you might see a bunch of them, I don't mind Hindu's they are all generally very nice people but the preaching technique of the Hare Krishna's I don't enjoy.

[Bullet Magnet]

The Hare Krishnas are the only sect that do so. Hinduism has no conversion or reconversion rituals whatsoever. Being a Hindu is not required for any of the various afterlives depicted in Hinduism.

The very concept of religion in the east is very different from that of the west. Religion and culture have not been separated. A bit like Judaism, only more so.

[STM]

If I wasn't Christian I'd be a Buddha or maybe a Shinto if I new a little more about that, the whole happiness and Zen and floating islands with big temples on them really speaks to me.

Also @ BM yeah I know it's only the Hare Krishna's, I went to a school trip there when I was 13 and they tried to convert us a few times I'm pretty sure. XD

[Wings of Fire]

Hare Krishna's

Oh!

Them.

Gotcha.

[Pilot]

Attempting to overpower another person's free will of choice in any form is a type of Control. If you are interested in trying to 'control' people then commence. If you're not interested in that, then realize that attempting to override another persons choices is in itself Evil; consider this.

In this particular instance, so-called "morality" is being exerted through force, which is exactly what escalates into brutality and war. It also shows that you have no respect whatsoever for your friends who have asked you to NOT preach. To them, you are a tool for those who are exerting their power over you in the name of their own acclaimed "morality."

[JennyGenesis]

Best preachers I ever saw were these pair of Christians in shopping center, they were not just preaching, THEY WERE SHOUTING!

I was with a friend at the time and we stuck around a bit because it was such a hilarious show, because he happened to be gay, we decided to join in the crowd watching these preachers whilst holding hands just to piss them off.

All I remember what "ALL PEOPLE THINK THAT CHRISTIANS ARE BORING AND THAT WE ONLY THINK OF DEATH!!!"

Well I never thought of Christians as being like that.

[Bullet Magnet]

I agree that preaching is a result of control over the preacher, it encourages the spread of the religious meme. Like sneezing spreads rhinovirus as a result of the rhinovirus seizing control of your reflexes.

But being preached to is hardly having their will overpowered. Unless they haven't been properly inoculated, I suppose. But that is what happened to the preacher already.

[JennyGenesis]

There is only one preacher I have ever liked

[MA]

lolol

[Nate]

Attempting to overpower another person's free will of choice in any form is a type of Control. If you are interested in trying to 'control' people then commence. If you're not interested in that, then realize that attempting to override another persons choices is in itself Evil; consider this.

In this particular instance, so-called "morality" is being exerted through force, which is exactly what escalates into brutality and war. It also shows that you have no respect whatsoever for your friends who have asked you to NOT preach. To them, you are a tool for those who are exerting their power over you in the name of their own acclaimed "morality."

So you're saying that we should never discuss politics or ethical questions because I will be trying to convince you to agree with my views? What about if I see you about to do something potentially dangerous and try to convince you not to do it - would that count as evil control?

[Pilot]

So you're saying that we should never discuss politics or ethical questions because I will be trying to convince you to agree with my views? What about if I see you about to do something potentially dangerous and try to convince you not to do it - would that count as evil control?

Constructive discussion requires at least two parties who are willing to engage intellectually, while 'preaching' has a polarizing effect when the other party doesn't want to participate.

What you're talking about in the latter part is suggestion. Short of physically restraining somebody to prevent them from doing something you perceive as 'potentially dangerous' the choice would be as much yours as the other person's to comply or even 'consider' what you say to them.

"evil control" (as you re-emphasize) comes from the extortion involved from giving somebody no other choice but to go along with you. In all fairness, I would never personally subject another into anything they do not consent to.

What I see in the instance of preaching to somebody that flat out doesn't want to hear it, is that it becomes less about what the preacher wants for others, and more about what he wants for himself.

But being preached to is hardly having their will overpowered. Unless they haven't been properly inoculated, I suppose. But that is what happened to the preacher already.

Of course it isn't, it seems to me that doing so against another's wishes presents a breach of respect and even contempt for another's values.

[Nate]

What I see in the instance of preaching to somebody that flat out doesn't want to hear it, is that it becomes less about what the preacher wants for others, and more about what he wants for himself.

I agree with this part of your post. I just think you overstated it slightly in the previous one.

I think that proselytising to tribal natives who don't know anything about Western religion is wrong. I think that forcing people to follow your scripture, either by threats or bribery (such as with some third world aid) is very wrong. But I think that approaching an intelligent person in the first world with full control of their senses and telling them about your religion is merely annoying, nothing more.

[Nepsotic]

Darkhoodness petty much setepped on my point there. Im okay with relegion. People having their own beliefs, thats fine. BUT DON'T PUSH IT ON PEOPLE. i hate that.

[Pilot]

I agree with this part of your post. I just think you overstated it slightly in the previous one.

I think that proselytising to tribal natives who don't know anything about Western religion is wrong. I think that forcing people to follow your scripture, either by threats or bribery (such as with some third world aid) is very wrong. But I think that approaching an intelligent person in the first world with full control of their senses and telling them about your religion is merely annoying, nothing more.

Pretty much, Nathan.

I feel prompted also to mention that some people would also argue that this is precisely what ET civilizations have done in our past; stepping in as "gods" demanding to be worshiped, and thenceforth setting up a sort of 'archetype' early on in our evolution of "worshiping gods." Possible? Probable? Provable? Perhaps. It would be similar to 'proselytizing to tribal natives' in a way; profoundly altering our Human frame of reference.

A lot of folk might immediately tune out when their eyes scan over "ET" but it is an interesting thought for me.