Respecting Elders: given or earned

Dipstikk · #1 02-21-2011, 08:29 AM

This is a no brainer for me- I know where I stand on this issue. My dad has always pressured me to respect him because of two things: him being my elder, and his status as my father. The problem is that my dad can be such a nice guy one minute, only to turn into an unlikable bastard the next. He's rude, condescending, vulgar and stupid, but demands respect from his family because in his mind, his place in the "household" places him on top. He certainly doesn't do much to earn your respect, and often mistakes respect as something that can be bought; something he can then use as a bargaining chip when he goes back to kicking you around.

Then there is one of his old friends, Kurt, who runs a mechanic's shop a half mile from dad's house. Kurt's intelligent, he's kind, he strives never to be rude or judgmental, and while he swears like a sailor, he never delves into racial or bigoted vulgarity, like my dad seems prone to doing. He's the kind of person who I would always try to treat with respect because earning it just seems to come naturally to him.

Then there are people within my own age group who I consider to be "wise beyond their years," but others in that same group who are just as rude, vitriolic and unlikable as my father.

So the question is this: Do you believe respect is something that someone gains just because of their status as an elder, or is it someone who earns it through the way they interact, regardless of age?

Dynamithix · #2 02-21-2011, 08:42 AM

I'm with the later one, regardless of age, you have to earn respect, it is not something you "get" for being older than someone else. Respecting the elder people is same as respecting a normal adult.

To be honest, it's a pretty hard question to answer.

Bullet Magnet · #3 02-21-2011, 09:29 AM

There is a basic level of respect due to all people for being people, and it's tough to lose it. More than that has to be earned. But no matter how much or little respect you have for someone, what they say or do inherits none at all. Those must be examined on their own merits. Indeed, words and deeds are how people earn and lose respect in the first place, if you permit those to carry the same respect afforded to the person him/herself then they will be unable to earn or lose your respect.

Respect based on age is nonsense, a logical fallacy. Appeal to age and appeal to authority. In other words, a red herring.

It's easy to see where this idea of respecting your elders came from. Firstly, elders tend to be in charge, having been around long enough to get there, so they can just decree that they be respected, and it tends to happen. But also, many people actually magane to accumulate wisdom with age, or become adept at creating the illusion of wisdom. This would make them generally more skilled at earning respect and thus elders gather the reputation of being respected. It doesn't take long for the ineptitude of the human mind to conclude that they are respected because they are elders, a false attribution, followed by your basic is-ought fallacy.

Dipstikk · #4 02-21-2011, 09:38 AM

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There is a basic level of respect due to all people for being people, and it's tough to lose it. More than that has to be earned.

This is a point I failed to mention. Yes, I absolutely agree with this.

Ridg3 · #5 02-21-2011, 01:45 PM

I think older people need to earn respect from me, but I think I deserve respect from the young uns.

Sekto Springs · #6 02-21-2011, 02:17 PM

Respect for me is never a default. Regardless of your age, if you want my respect, you have to earn it.

Disgruntled Intern · #7 02-21-2011, 03:18 PM

Anyone over 65 typically has my respect. Sixty five years is a long time to be shuffling around on this dirt ball, and the least I can do is not make their remaining time any more unpleasant than it has to be. But I've also spent a lot of time working with the elderly, and have grown quite fond of them.

Everyone else, though? Earn my respect or fuck off.

Ridg3 · #8 02-21-2011, 03:26 PM

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Everyone else, though? Earn my respect or fuck off.

This comment though is annoying (DI is scapegoat for now), why should anyone try to earn respect of someone who throws that at their faces.

There is a pile of people with that exact view on giving their respect. Earn it or go do one, that wouldn't make me want to earn your respect. It'll make me try and put as much emotional distance between each other as possible. Because it's a dickhead comment.

There's a conundrum here that I can think of but I can't seem to fucking word it. I'll try at a less tiring stance tomorrow.

Wings of Fire · #9 02-21-2011, 03:31 PM

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Anyone over 65 typically has my respect. Sixty five years is a long time to be shuffling around on this dirt ball, and the least I can do is not make their remaining time any more unpleasant than it has to be.

Pretty much this. But for me it's not respect for seniority, it's respect out of compassion.

Bullet Magnet · #10 02-21-2011, 03:39 PM

That seems condescending.

Disgruntled Intern · #11 02-21-2011, 03:52 PM

:

This comment though is annoying (DI is scapegoat for now), why should anyone try to earn respect of someone who throws that at their faces.

There is a pile of people with that exact view on giving their respect. Earn it or go do one, that wouldn't make me want to earn your respect. It'll make me try and put as much emotional distance between each other as possible. Because it's a dickhead comment.

There's a conundrum here that I can think of but I can't seem to fucking word it. I'll try at a less tiring stance tomorrow.

I wasn't very clear, I guess. What I meant by 'fuck off' was simply that we can coexist with one another, but respect is not going to be doled out like fun sized butterfingers on Halloween. When it comes to my interactions with people in my personal life, I do my best to give what I get. If that's respect, outstanding. If not, we can move on, but chances are things won't be as pleasant as the other party would like. Earning my respect isn't hard in day to day situations, but getting it back once you've flushed it down the crapper? Usually impossible.

:

Pretty much this. But for me it's not respect for seniority, it's respect out of compassion.

:

That seems condescending.

^That.

Wings of Fire · #12 02-21-2011, 04:09 PM

It's not, I just phrased it awkwardly.

Bullet Magnet · #13 02-21-2011, 04:10 PM

Have another go.

Wings of Fire · #14 02-21-2011, 04:24 PM

Kay.

By seniority I meant I don't respect anyone because I see them as above me, I respect old people because I feel they've earnt it by having a lot more life experiences than me and they may not know what they're talking about with regards to politics, black people, women etc etc but they sure as hell know more than me when it comes to life. I call that kind of respect compassionate, as it's not heirarchical.

Better?

Disgruntled Intern · #15 02-21-2011, 04:32 PM

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Kay.

By seniority I meant I don't respect anyone because I see them as above me, I respect old people because I feel they've earnt it by having a lot more life experiences than me and they may not know what they're talking about with regards to politics, black people, women etc etc but they sure as hell know more than me when it comes to life. I call that kind of respect compassionate, as it's not heirarchical.

Better?

That's nice. I'm not sure how you took my views as heirarchical, but okay. Anyway, we have surprisingly similar outlooks when it comes to raisins.

Bullet Magnet · #16 02-22-2011, 05:13 AM

I'd still rather let them earn it. Should they have come out the better for their experiences, then it shouldn't be too difficult. But I'm not going to make that assumption.

MeechMunchie · #17 02-22-2011, 07:42 AM

I think older people should have more respect for their youngers. It's a cliche, but there you go. I appreciate the time and effort my father put in to keeping me safe, but I don't like him at all. My gratitude will keep fuelling my courtesy towards him until he finally keels over, but I'm not going to treat him as if he's better than me. Hey, I'm an angsty teenager, what do you expect?

On the actual question, I think respect in the sense that others acknowledge that you are a human being with human capabilities is a human right. Everyone deserves recogniton for what they do, good or bad, so I'd say I fall on the 'Earned' side of the fence.

Josh · #18 02-22-2011, 11:05 AM

Respect has to be earned, but it's still nice to be nice.

Disgruntled Intern · #19 02-22-2011, 11:08 AM

Most boys don't like their fathers. Shit, I fucking loathe mine and I AM ALL THAT IS MAN.

Seriously though, a lot of people like to think that fathers serve as some sort of role model for their sons, but my Dad just taught me what kind of man I never want to be.

Wings of Fire · #20 02-22-2011, 11:15 AM

Dad = bad example of an elder.

Grandma = good example of an elder.

Josh · #21 02-22-2011, 11:16 AM

My dad turned out to be a raving anti-Semite. And an asshole. Does anybody here have a decent dad?

STM · #22 02-22-2011, 11:17 AM

I get respect from friends because over the years I have walked my way to the top of the pyramid. Everywhere else respect isn't a factor in how people judge me or see me. My father sounds just like Drippik's actually. I hate him for it sometimes.

Wings of Fire · #23 02-22-2011, 11:20 AM

My dad attempted to prove I wasn't his son in order to claim back thousands of pounds worth of maintenance payments off of my mother. He threatened to take the matter to court if I didn't have a blood test.

Beat that.

Josh · #24 02-22-2011, 11:21 AM

Mine hit my mother and called me a faggot via email. Yours still sounds pretty crap. I'll be your new dad, here's your allowance, don't spend it all in one place.

Wings of Fire · #25 02-22-2011, 11:23 AM

Oh, mine hit my mother too. And left her in tens of thousands of pounds of debt she still hasn't finished paying off.

Josh · #26 02-22-2011, 11:23 AM

Mine... are we actually having some kind of shit dad contest here?

Wings of Fire · #27 02-22-2011, 11:26 AM

We should probably quit whilst we're ahead.

Dynamithix · #28 02-22-2011, 12:41 PM

Ouch. That's some cruel stuff.

My parents aren't so good either, but it's a topic I don't wanna discuss online.

Disgruntled Intern · #29 02-22-2011, 01:57 PM

I grew up being told I was an embarrassment, not good enough, and hit. My mom was perpetually emotionally and verbally abused. He was also incredibly unfaithful.

Well, the hitting stopped once I hit my growth spurt and became larger than he is. He's been afraid of me since then.

MA · #30 02-22-2011, 02:57 PM

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Well, the hitting stopped once I hit my growth spurt and became larger than he is. He's been afraid of me since then.

this. although my stepfather isn't very big anyway.

don't know who the fuck my father is or what he looks like, but he's dead now so fuck him.

on the subject of respect: i love my grandparents very much, so i suppose i look at other elders in the same light, even if they are different. i respect them because i want to, and like what was already said, i don't feel the need to give them more bullshit than what they already have to put up with or have had to put up with. even if they're openly condescending towards you, i feel there's no sport in being a dick towards them because of that or similar reasons. its their life, let them fucking live it the way they want to. they've been doing it long enough.