They're just breasts!

[Havoc]

I found this to fun of a discussion topic to ignore. So have at it. I say do it, but only allow 'nice' breasts... yes...

They're "just breasts"! This is the rallying cry of a network of women who have launched a campaign for the right to bathe topless at Sweden's swimming pools.

A new wave of feminists have been angered by an incident in September in which two bare-breasted young women were called ashore by a lifeguard at a swimming pool in Uppsala. When they refused to cover up, they were asked to leave the premises.

Speaking to The Local, Ragnhild Karlsson , 22, explained the womens' motives for swimming without bikini tops.

"It's a question of equality. I think it's a problem that women are sexualized in this way. If women are forced to wear a top, shouldn't men also have to?"

Outraged by what they regarded as discrimination, a group of women in southern Sweden made a show of solidarity by establishing the Bara Bröst network. (The name translates both as 'Bare Breasts' and 'Just Breasts'.)

"We want our breasts to be as 'normal' and desexualized as men's, so that we too can pull off our shirts at football matches," spokeswomen Astrid Hellroth och Liv Ambjörnsson told Ottar, a magazine published by the Swedish Association for Sexuality Education.

In a preliminary action in the middle of last month, seven members of the Bara Bröst network hopped into a pool in Malmö wearing only bikini bottoms. Before long, they were whistled to the side and asked to leave.

Two weeks later, seven more women repeated the feat at Högevallsbadet in Lund. After half an hour's discussion, the woman went back to the dressing room before claiming a full refund at the cash desk.

A spokeswoman for the leisure complex in Uppsala articulated why the women were not allowed to bathe topless.

"Swimming pools generally require men to wear swimming trunks and women to wear either bikinis or one piece swimsuits," Inger Grotteblad told The Local.

"There are three reasons for this. First, there is a security aspect, then there is a hygiene issue and finally there is what we call 'prevailing manners and customs'. It is above all this last point which is important here," she added.

Sweden's Equal Opportunities Ombudsman is expected to decide later this month whether or not to take up the case of the topless bathers.

"Our aim is to start a debate about the unwritten social and cultural rules that sexualize and discriminate against the female body," said Astrid Hellroth and Liv Ambjörnsson.

[Zozo the Zrilufet]

Welllll....I suppsoe the feminists have a good point, but I really wouldn't be comfortable with the idea. Its just embedded into my head that "Liek zomg, boobs are teh secks and must be filtered for teh children11!!". I suppose its some crazy cultural thing.

[moxco]

Are they hot? If not they can go do it over there just don't bring it here.

[Laser]

bullshit

more bloody do gooders trying to "be feminist" i mean i can't take this shit seriously when i heard about some women try and take the "man" and "men" out of women and woman

[Bullet Magnet]

Bras are pretty practical, especially when trying to swim.

[Zerox]

The reason breasts are 'sexualised in this way' is because they are a sexual characteristic. Most men find them sexually attractive. That's a fact. So that's why they're 'sexualised' in this way.

I couldn't say how women feel about mens bare chests, but I'm not one, but to my knowledge, I don't think it has quite the same effect in that regard.

Our culture also tends to have developed in this way for a reason.

[Havoc]

Breasts are, and always have been since if you read historic writings ands stuff, an object of sexuality. It's one of the 'round forms' that make women so attractive in a man's eye. This is not a culture thing, it's an instinctive thing. Even many wild tribes that exist today, with exception of a few, have their women cover up their chest in normal every day life. These people are not subjected to media or religions or whatever.

Breasts are sexual. And if they think they are not then they should take off all their clothes when they go swimming because then their vagina is just as not sexual as their tits.

[Mojo]

Nooo! Not just Breasts! Gods! GODS I TELL YOU! THEY TELL ME WHAT TO DO! AND IF I DON'T STARE AT THEM, THEY GET MAD! AND THEY'LL PUNISH ME!

*Goes off worshipping an Idol of Breasts*

[Strike Witch]

Thread is useless without Pics.

[Leto]

Feminists and their breasts. Pfft. If they can take fucking ages choosing and buying underwear for their breasts, they can bloody well wear them.

There was a similar thing happening in New Zealand, well I think it happens every year, something about Boobs On Bikes, where they parade around streets topless. Their excuse is 'FEMINISM U CHAUVENISTIC PEEEEGS', but you know what the parade was advertising? The national Sexpo.

[/rant]

[Voodoo Hand]

"There are three reasons for this. First, there is a security aspect, then there is a hygiene issue and finally there is what we call 'prevailing manners and customs'. It is above all this last point which is important here,".........

Security?? At least they can`t hide anything in their bikini tops.

Hygiene?? Since when do bikini tops prevent disease ?

Let them swim, they most likely do the breast stroke very well.

"We want our breasts to be as 'normal' and desexualized as men's, so that we too can pull off our shirts at football matches,"

three words: GO FOR IT!!

[Mac Sirloin]

I believe in god again.

[Bullet Magnet]

When it comes to the sexualisation of breasts, I have a hypothesis.

As secondary sexual characteristics they do represent physical and sexual femininity. In terms of purely physical attraction, it is those features that distinguish you from the opposite sex that those inclined that way will find sexually attractive (plus cultural preferences). Think about it in respect to other sexual characteristics- it is almost universally true.

Also, as secondary sexual characteristics, they indicate that a female is sexually mature. In evolutionary terms, it is pointless to copulate with an underdeveloped individual.


So that explains the sexualisation of both the female and male breast (girls and Nate, do you not find the torsos of attractive men to be, well, attractive? This is more tentative than my other observations, because I have not been able to examine this effect from the other perspective.

However, I submit to you that the cultural difference can be explained by the historical differences in the gender roles of society. Men have traditionally been the breadwinners, long have men performed manual labour. Remaining fully clothed is not always practical, especially in the summer, for physically active men. Here I postulate is a major cause of the cultural disparities in attitudes to male and female breasts.

Can the woman's breast be culturally desexualised too? I think so. Many aboriginal cultures do not bother with modesty for breasts, and occasionally the whole body. This may simply be a generalised attitude due to the climate.

Still, even if western society could accept these changes, I still think bras would stay on more often than not. They are practical, providing support. Example: if women regularly performed manual labour the same way men did and do, supporting their breasts would keep them out of harm's way, making work both safer and more convenient. Men do the same when applicable in supporting (and sometimes shielding) their genitalia.

[Wil]

girls and Nate, do you not find the torsos of attractive men to be, well, attractive?

I’m not sure who should be more insulted by this. Nate, for being picked on? The other androphilic males for being excluded from this survey? The non‐androphilic females whose preferences have been assumed?

As for topless bathing women, the part of me that yearns for a society that is neither preoccupied with sex nor sheltered from it would love this to be a step closer to that ideal. More realistically, I don’t want to see it because I don’t want to see them (breasts, that is, not women altogether).

[Bullet Magnet]

I’m not sure who should be more insulted by this. Nate, for being picked on? The other androphilic males for being excluded from this survey? The non‐androphilic females whose preferences have been assumed?

Oh. I'm sorry, Max. When I was writing, that particular remark was a side-thought, and I had to condense it down, which is why I did not mention non-androphilic females, yet still mention other sexualities. I suppose I was thinking about my argument and not this particular issue.

Nate came to mind over broader terms or other gay members for some reason... I guess because I've asked Nate specifically for clarification on points in OTD outside of my experience in the past (I can think of a specific example in a similar format as this) and he's always provided good answers. Also, I did not like the alliteration of "girls and gays". I'm not sure why.

I hope you're not offended, Nate, Max and others, if so I apologise.

[Wil]

Awww, I wasn’t having a go. Well, I guess I was, but I didn’t mean to come across as taking particular exception. Your choice of subjects just caught my attention.

[Salamander]

I would find breasts sexual even if I was told they're weren't. Breasts have been considered sexual for thousands of years, it's a natural thing.

[Nemo]

I'm all for feminism.


Honestly, I'm a lesbian trapped in a fat man's body. D':

[Nate]

I would find breasts sexual even if I was told they're weren't.

I wonder if you still would if they were on regular display. You'd probably become desensitized very quickly.

[Hobo]

Thread is useless without Pics.

For once i agree

[Bullet Magnet]

Awww, I wasn’t having a go. Well, I guess I was, but I didn’t mean to come across as taking particular exception. Your choice of subjects just caught my attention.

Okay I just don't like to think that I've offended my friends like that.


I think there's a difference between this "sexualisation" and general attractiveness. In our culture breasts are viewed as sexual organs, which could be done to most of our external features if you have the imagination... or the fetish.

Anyway, if breasts wee culturally desexualised, I think this means that they would no longer stimulate sexual arousal in so much of the population by themselves, though they would still be a means by which women's physical attractiveness is "judged", just like the rest of a person's body. I mean, people find legs attractive, but we don't have to keep those covered. Not in modern western culture anyway.

[moxco]

I should make a thread called 'It's just a penis!'.

[Havoc]

Well what I have isn't 'just' a penis...

[Mojo]

You're right, it's not just a penis, it's a oversized clitoris :P.

[Leto]

For once i agree

Can it be? A instance on oddworld forums where this can be used?:

[skillyaslig]

Well...I wouldnt be doing that, I can tell ya. I'm too shy...Though I dont really know who would want to but if they want to, they should be able to...but I still woundnt. So in short, if they want to, do it...Men would love it, thats for sure as long as the woman in question is 'attractive' plah

[Havoc]

Well to be quite honest I think the attraction to breasts is the fact that you can't always see them. If they would be out and about with every girl around I think it would actually take the fun out of them extremely quickly.

[OANST]

I agree but only because they would become very saggy from not having proper support.

[mudling]

Well they have a point, but howabout the men wearing two peace bakinnis, therefore, we're both equal.
Jokes :P
Well, I agree with Havoc, we'd probably get bored of it, but it would be fun at first, as long as the people who do it are good looking, and have decent breasts, lol.
Ok, maybe that's an even more sexist approach.

[OANST]

Maybe? Maybe? Let me clear this up? It is.