4D.

magic9mushroom · #1 10-30-2006, 04:11 PM

Do there exist any 4D RTSs? Does anybody think the idea of making one is more than the ravings of a madman? Does anyone know whether GameMaker can make a 4D game? Cos I'm thinking of making one so I can totally pwn everyone.

Patrick Vykkers · #2 10-30-2006, 05:10 PM

No one even knows what the 4th dimension truly is. But funnily enough, in Galactic Civilizations one of the technologies mentions 4D games. They would be boring and slow though, as you would see all possible outcomes at the same time. No real challenge or skill or suspense.

OANST · #3 10-30-2006, 05:57 PM

:

Do there exist any 4D RTSs? Does anybody think the idea of making one is more than the ravings of a madman? Does anyone know whether GameMaker can make a 4D game? Cos I'm thinking of making one so I can totally pwn everyone.

What kind of retarded are you?

magic9mushroom · #4 10-30-2006, 07:03 PM

:

No one even knows what the 4th dimension truly is. But funnily enough, in Galactic Civilizations one of the technologies mentions 4D games. They would be boring and slow though, as you would see all possible outcomes at the same time. No real challenge or skill or suspense.

:

What kind of retarded are you?

PV: No, not 3 space + 1 time, 4 space dimensions. It would be a real mental challenge. Basically, the tileset would be 200x200x200x200 or something similar, with the mouse turning viewpoint, UP+DOWN moving viewpoint forward and back, and LEFT+RIGHT moving through the 4th dimension. Buildings/units would occupy spots in several lattices, although it's sorta hard to describe.

OANST: One who can visualise 4 dimensions

Strike Witch · #5 10-31-2006, 12:17 AM

Um...there already are 4D games.

1=Length
2=Width
3=Depth
4=Time.

According to wikipedia, atleast. there are four dimensions of space and one of time.

***Nate*** · #6 10-31-2006, 01:00 AM

I think you're confused. There are only three spacial dimensions. And I think he meant 3d Real Time Strategy games in particular. There are ones with 3d graphics but you're still technically restricted to two degrees of motion in that the height dimension is only utilised for hills and valleys - not true freedom.

So I don't know what you mean by a fully 3d game. The only possibility would be one set in space. The problem with that would be how to clearly represent that on a 2d screen.

Strike Witch · #7 10-31-2006, 01:19 AM

Well. Star Trek Armada 2 had the ability to move in the 3rd dimension.
And also afew others I forget....

Havoc · #8 10-31-2006, 01:42 AM

There are only 3 dimensions the human eye can actualy see, and if the forth is then time, then how are you going to implement that in a computer game?

And dude, stop dreaming you can't even make propper 1D or 2D games, let alone 3D and forget about 4D...

Bullet Magnet · #9 10-31-2006, 01:55 AM

http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.php

magic9mushroom · #10 10-31-2006, 12:31 PM

Um...Homeworld is fully 3D. It is set in space, yeah, and you can move up-down, left-right, and back-forward. The Up-down is by pushing SHIFT.

Havoc · #11 11-01-2006, 01:49 AM

You can't put an element like time in a computer game. We can't even comprehend the time demension yet... It's a lot more complicated then putting a timer in or wearing a watch.

***Nate*** · #12 11-01-2006, 02:35 AM

He didn't mean travelling in time. He meant travelling in all three dimensions whilst time passes as compared to most RTSs which allow you to move in two dimensions over time.

Abeguy · #13 11-01-2006, 03:54 AM

magic9mushroom is screwy, that's all I can say. and he is very confused. As I am after watching that flash

Bullet Magnet · #14 11-01-2006, 04:32 AM

Whatch again, and it will make more sense. Compare ther first six dimensions with, say, Back to the Future. See which ones they travel in. It also deals with parallel realities and universes. It's all very straightforward really, you just need to stop thinking in terms of direction, and more in terms of where you would get to if you moved along the dimension in question.

Patrick Vykkers · #15 11-01-2006, 03:06 PM

Actually, I found that link perfectly comprehensible, indeed quite easy to understand. Dimension 0's a dot, 1's a line, 2 is a cross line, 3's.. well that's obvious, 4's an individual timeline, 5's all timeline's from a divergent point, 6's all timeline's for a single being, 7's the timeline for this universe, 8's all the possible timelines for this universe, 9's the timelines for another universe, and 10 is a dot encompassing all possible timelines, in all possible universes, in all possible realities, in all possible levels of being. After that, all you've got is strings and the afterlife.

Abeguy · #16 11-02-2006, 03:48 AM

yeah, I got that, but it was still...well, Wow. That's all

Hobo · #17 11-02-2006, 11:27 AM

This is a pointless painful to read thread.

And i just made it worse.

magic9mushroom · #18 11-02-2006, 12:14 PM

FOR THE LAST TIME I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT A TIME TRAVEL GAME!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM TALKING ABOUT 4-SPACE!!!!!!! DOES ANYBODY THINK THE IDEA IS OK OR NOT??????? CAN PEOPLE STOP MAKING THEIR OWN STUPID INTERPRETATIONS!!!!!

NDW: I meant 4 spatial dimensions, not 3.

PV: That may be, but it is still possible to have a game in 4-space.

Abeguy: Iam not confused at all, for I can actually visualise simplices, hypercubes, crosspoly4topes etc. Not hyperspheres though for some reason. I think it might have to do with the lack of vertices.

Bullet Magnet · #19 11-02-2006, 12:22 PM

4 space dimensions? Computers can't simulate that, and we wouldn't be able to comprehend it either. We are three dimensional beings, and we see the fourth dimension in 3D cross sections. That is a fundamental fact of reality.

magic9mushroom · #20 11-02-2006, 12:40 PM

Computer screens are 2D, but 3D games can be played on them. The display would be a 2D slice of the 4D hypercube that is the map. If you want some further information so you stop thinking I'm talking about time, look at these:

More to come.

***Nate*** · #21 11-02-2006, 01:04 PM

Okay, I revise my evaluation of your idea.

But I'm too polite to say my opinion in mixed company.

Patrick Vykkers · #22 11-02-2006, 02:33 PM

That cube looks pretty 3D to me.

magic9mushroom · #23 11-02-2006, 03:00 PM

It's 4D. That's a 2D representation.

Patrick Vykkers · #24 11-02-2006, 03:10 PM

So if there are length, height, and width, what else is there to fill, physically speaking?

Bullet Magnet · #25 11-02-2006, 03:17 PM

Sex appeal.

***Nate*** · #26 11-02-2006, 03:45 PM

Peppermint

magic9mushroom · #27 11-02-2006, 03:47 PM

:

So if there are length, height, and width, what else is there to fill, physically speaking?

We don't have a word for it because it doesn't exist in our universe. A way to do it is to call length (left-1 and right-1), width (left-2 and right-2), depth (left-3 and right-3), so then you get (left-4 and right-4) as the 4th dimension.

More 4D pics:

There are 6 poly-4-topes (the equivalent of polyhedra):
Simplex: 5 vertices, 10 edges, 10 triangular faces, 5 tetrahedral "cells"(3D polyhedra)
Hypercube: 16 vertices, 32 edges, 24 square faces, 8 cubic cells
Cross Polytope: 8 vertices, 24 edges, 32 triangular faces, 16 tetrahedral cells
24 cell: 24 vertices, 96 edges, 96 triangular faces, 24 octahedral cells
120 cell: 600 vertices, 1200 edges, 720 pentagonal faces, 120 dodecahedral cells
600 cell: 120 vertices, 720 edges, 1200 triangular faces, 600 tetrahedral cells.

The last couple I got off a site, but I can actually visualise and draw the first 4.

Edit: I probably could draw the last 2 but can't be bothered.

Strike Witch · #28 11-02-2006, 09:37 PM

Uh, a 2D "slice" of a 4D thing is still 2D.

You Hypercube thingy, is just a wireframe hexagon with a hole in the middle and some overlapping lines.

Seargentbig · #29 11-02-2006, 11:40 PM

It's a 2D representation of a 4D shape - the lines to represent it are 2D, but it is non-the-less a 4D shape being represented. The way I saw it was more like a hyper-rectagular-prism, but it's like two rectangular prisms with corresponding vertecies attached with another line, across the fourth dimension.
It makes sense, even if you can't visualise it.

Adder · #30 11-03-2006, 06:09 AM

:

According to wikipedia, atleast. there are four dimensions of space and one of time.

Space has more than 3 dimensions. Going by Einstein and a whole bunch of other physicists, there are either 10 or 26 dimensions.

And I don't mean "deamon dimensions", I mean measurable parameters. Look up "string theory" for more info.

I've already seen 4-D PC mouses for sale and thought "...wtf?!".

Not counting time, a game with 4 dimensions would be slightly beyond the majority of human comprehension. We think in terms of length, width, depth. Any other axis of orientation would really mess up most people. I suppose you could use a colour-shift of some sort {i.e. you must be in the right area of a spectrum to do something} to simulate some kind of dimension, but I really can't see people understanding a 4-D game for a while.

Bullet Magnet, thank you SO MUCH for that link... although it really made my head hurt around dimension 7. To get to 26 dimensions, most people think of dimensions being smaller than the basic 3 {the analogy of an ant on a cable which appears 1 dimensional to us. The ant can rotate around the cable [or axis] in a very small dimension... although it might just be the other 2 axis}