Game ratings harsher than Movie ratings?

[mitsur]

An article in the Gameinformer magazine I get every month inspired me to make this topic. Specifically, it talks about the ratings scandal that arose from the now infamous Hot Coffee mod from GTA: Vice City. In the mod, simulated sex could be done with female counterparts in full view of the player. This raised a huge uproar from the whole gaming industry.

Also, there was the other mod in The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion, where a mod opened up a art file that allowed topless female characters. This also raised a storm of controversy.

In GTA's case, the game immediately got slapped with an AO (adults only) rating, which is game version of a movie's X rating.

In Oblivion's case, the game got a M (mature) rating, the game version of a movie's R rating.

Now, step back for a moment, and think about the fact that most movies that have sex scenes usually only gain an R rating, unless it is extremly long and/or obscene.

And yet Rockstar gained an AO rating and recived numerous angry complaints on something that wasn't even supposed to be opened in the first place. It was modders who opened up the game and released the material. Rockstar mst likely never meant for it to be realeased.

And Oblivion's case is similar, except that the material in question was not as bad. Also, the material was only meant for reference and was most likely used to make the necessary shapes for the women's figure. Also, this material was not supposed to opened in the first place either. Modders also released this material.

In my thoughts, this was a gross injustice to the video game industry, since even now Jack Thompson and his band of so-called 'protectors of our children' are screaming at the slightest thing that isn't 'right'. It is a wonder to me that he is not jumping on games like Leisure Suit Larry and other games so obviously centered on what JT does not deem 'safe'.

But, back to the ratings game. Like I said before, Movies that have sex-scenes or extreme nudity in them are only rated R. Only porn films usually gain the X rating. And yet GTA was slapped with AO once something not meant to be seen was found by people modding the game. Oblivion was given a M rating for the same reasons.

Do you guys have any thoughts on this?

[Abeguy]

Yes, Yes I do.

Any "Sex Scene" showing two people reproduce, and shows full nudity, is basically considered porn. Which is NC-17 (it isn't X, officially)
In GTA San Andreas, you saw the woman full nude, in some parts (as poorly drawn as it was), and therefore it was considered "porn" (if you could get turned on from watching polygons)


In Oblivion. You could only see the women's breasts. Which I have seen in many rated "R" movies. Which is why it got slapped with The videogames equivilant of R.

So if you take it that way, it seems is that the videogame ratings are just the same as Movie ratings...At least over here.

I'm not sure about how you other people in other countries rate. But over here, It makes sense.

[Leto]

Of course games are rated harsher these days. Probably for the best though, so it narrows down the selection of crap.

Try this on for size ESRB.

[Nate]

The hot coffee thing is a tough call. The fact is that it is in the game, being that it's on the disk. It's just like if a movie popped in a couple of frames of hardcore porn that you'd only notice if you're freeze-framing on DVD or zooming into a reflection in a mirror. It's there and it counts, even if you wouldn't normally see it.

I think the bigger issue in Australia is that we don't have an R-rating (18+)for games. Anything that's more juicy than MA (15+) is simply not rated, which effectively means that it's been banned and can't be sold. There have been slow discussions on changing this in the last year, but classification rules are notoriously slow and conservative to change.

[Patrick Vykkers]

My sentiments on video game censorship can excellently be summed up by one sentence in Mad Magazines "50 Worst Things About Video Games";

The ESRB "Parental Advisory" system, which is excellent for parents who can't quite decide whether "Killzone" is suitable for their six year old

Besides, how kids can be affected greatly by something they don't even understand, like sex, is beyond me. And the double standards. Mass decapitation and brutal killing is okay, but show a natural part of the human anatomy? No, no, we can't have the chldren knowing that the human body is not an evuuuuuul thing to never be spoke of. Oh no, because that would destroy Traditional Family Values (TM).

[Havoc]

Isn't GTA supposed to be 16+ in any case? OMG the sheer horror, a bunch of 16 year olds are going to see people f*cking! Now they will probably shoot up a school or rape their girlfriend...
Give me a goddamn break, this is bull. This is being done to make sure those anal parents that don't care what their kids play untill they think they can sue over it, don't sue over it. Yes, newsflash mommy and daddy, GTA is not meant to be played by your 6 year old son so he can bash people's skull in with a 2x4 and run into a school to shoot everyone to pieces. When is there going to be a judge who is going to see that and punishes the parent instead for not raising their kid propperly.

[SeaRex]

The ESRB rating system is very broken. At best, it is extremely vague. "Blood and Gore" and "Use of Tobacco/Alcohol" are pretty self-explanatory, but things like "Violence" and "Suggestive Themes" (WTF is a suggestive theme, anyway?) can differ so much from game to game. I mean, of course it's going to be difficult to put a concrete rating system on something as abstract and diverse as the gaming industry (and, to a certain extent, the film industry), but what parent is going to pick up a T-rated game and say, "Uh-oh. This game has 'Suggestive Themes.' I don't think that my 12 year-old needs to have anything suggested to him."

I also think that the ESRB (and really, the American public in general) is always so paranoid about violence, that they completely overlook overt sexual exploitation in most cases, but that's probably just me.

[Statikk HDM]

Look at television ratings. "Intensely Suggestive Dialogue" is enough to warrant a TV 14. Check it out here, almost every guideline comes down to a judgment call. http://www.tvguidelines.org/ratings.asp
Sometimes theere will be warnings about "mature dialogue". What does that even mean?
Hot coffee was nowhere near NC-17/X. I've seen plenty worse(better?) in the average R movie.
Edit:SeaRex, you've got it totally backwards. Schwarzenegger can slaughter scores in prime time, as long as there are no tits or "big boy language". Try watching the average mob or action movie before 8 to see the ridiculous lengths television goes to to stop Johnny from hearing "Mother****er". Well, maybe the mother****er shouldn't be watching The Godfather, Part II!

[Bullet Magnet]

It is well established that videogames are a direct cause of violence. When I think of all the people I killed in GAME because they cut in line...

Really, a government sending troops to kill people in a far off land, who aabuse their captives and videotape it, are saying that violent games will have a detrimental effect on children, making them more prone to violence. Then the media puts on the tapes from Iraq, they show the war and fly the American flag with it, and promote joining the army.

Is there a double standard here, or have I missed something?

"You can't do this in a harmless fantasy world, oh no. But we'll give you a gun and let you do it for real!"

Go fuck yourself, Jack Thompson. Then videotape it and send it to our troops.

[SeaRex]

Edit:SeaRex, you've got it totally backwards. Schwarzenegger can slaughter scores in prime time, as long as there are no tits or "big boy language". Try watching the average mob or action movie before 8 to see the ridiculous lengths television goes to to stop Johnny from hearing "Mother****er". Well, maybe the mother****er shouldn't be watching The Godfather, Part II!

Well, I was more or less talking about games. Although it seems like anything goes on TV these days.

Stuff like GTA and Doom take a lot of flak for being violent, but there is so much blatantly unnecessary sexual content in games these days, and most of it goes completely unnoticed by rating systems.

[Nate]

It's interesting though; GTA cops flak for its violence but the examples that people give tend to be sexual (eg beating up a hooker and stealing her cash).

I don't know what to draw from that, but it just occurred to me as interesting.

[mitsur]

I just don't get it. Parents buy the game for their kid, and they're blaming the gaming industry when they barely glanced at the warning right on the cover?

And another thing, if anyone has played Dead Rising (which, if you haven't, you should, as it is extremely fun), you will notice the INSANE amounts of violence in it. I mean, you can disembowl zombies, for god's sake! You can bash them in the head with a sledgehammer, run them over with lawn mowers, cut them in half with a katanna, use a friggin' excavator to impale them and spin them around, and other numerous ways that will either make you laugh with evil glee or wince. All of this with crazy amounts of blood and gore. And the occasional 'shit' thrown in.

And yet JT and his communist parent (in Soviet Russia, game rates YOU!) association has totally passed up on this game, instead focusing on games like 'Bully', which is reported to have almost no violence or sex or swearing. The game has not even come out yet!

It just drives me insane what JT does, without any logical, reasonable, or any sane reasons to do it. If you really want to know what kind of crap he can spit out, go here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in676446.shtml

[Nate]

Hell, there was a guy who sued Nintendo because his daughter's pirated game cartridge, which he bought himself from a shonky market, started swearing at her.

Parents = dumb.

[Havoc]

It is well established that videogames are a direct cause of violence. When I think of all the people I killed in GAME because they cut in line...

"You can't do this in a harmless fantasy world, oh no. But we'll give you a gun and let you do it for real!"

Uhm... video games only cause violence with very mentaly disturbed people. I have been playing online shooters for about 6 years now and I'm not running around killing people randomly, now am I? Anyone killing someone because they saw it in a video game is very retarded person who should be executed on the spot. And that same person could have been triggered to kill by dropping hot coffee on his crotch just as easily, instead he lost a game of battlefield to some cheating bastard and that set him off.
In addition, have you people noticed how games like Battlefield and Call of Duty never get critisized for being violent? It's because it involves the military. At least a quarter of the currently enlisted soldiers chose to enlist because they thought it would be cool to be in army. Heck it was cool in the game right? Not that I don't think these kids deserve to be shot by an iraqi for being THAT F*CKING STUPID, but it's a little arogant to say that killing random people in a fictional American town is causing violence, but killing Germans in a random German town is not causing violence. If anything, it causes long lines at the nearest recruitment office.

[Bullet Magnet]

Me=memtally disturbed.

I was joking. Of course video games don't cause violence. I was just angry at being played by eight-years-olds in the queue.

Nothing like a purely analytical view. JT hates games. No wonder he was gotten for contempt. He thinks they are satan.

I bet he has never actually played a game ever.

In that article of Mitsur's... can you believe the used Oddworld's own trademarked word ("GameSpeak") to head an article attacking gaming?

[Nate]

I agree with Havoc. I don't trust any army filled with people who want to be there.

Seriously though, when I spent a year in Israel I initially found it frightening to see soldiers with M16s walking around everywhere. But pretty soon you realise that they're normal people, just like my cousins who all went through the army. So eventually it becomes normal to be sitting on the bus and have to ask the soldier next to you to move his rifle because it keeps on bumping into you...

Well maybe not normal, but not quite as intimidating as it had been.

[Abeguy]

I bet he has never actually played a game ever.

No, according to CAD, he was raped by one in his childhood. >.>

[Havoc]

I bet he got pwnz0red by teh 1337 0wn3r3rs! You know, when he was little...

[Hobo]

Why're game ratings higher? Control.

In a film, if something violent happens you didn't cause it, you may not have wanted to see it. It's not caused by you and so it's impersonal.

Playing a bit of GTA. Oooh yeah i just popped that guy's skull open using my bare penis! +100 points. Not only control, but rewards for the violence. thus encouraging it.

Trust me, i'm a psychologist!

[Statikk HDM]

Well I guess I'm not normal than. I get "into" a movie far more than a videogame because I have too much control over the situation. I've got a little controller, and I'm controlling someone who is completely my opposite, and since its just a game I'll do whatever I want.

[Havoc]

Why're game ratings higher? Control.

In a film, if something violent happens you didn't cause it, you may not have wanted to see it. It's not caused by you and so it's impersonal.

Playing a bit of GTA. Oooh yeah i just popped that guy's skull open using my bare penis! +100 points. Not only control, but rewards for the violence. thus encouraging it.

Trust me, i'm a psychologist!

Any normal person would realize that it's the character in the video game and not yourself who is causing it. You might be controling it, but you are not doing the damage with your very own hands. You are sending electric surges trough a wire to a computer that tells the character to do what it does. If you somehow think you can make a link between controling a game character and bashing someone's skull in in real life, you need to be locked away.

And... please leave the 'logist' out of the word...

[Statikk HDM]

Wow, don't jump down his throat. He's just stating something that happens to people who see violence in television or movies versus what happens to people when they play a videogame. Is the majority view of the APA "psychotic"? Take it down a couple of clicks, Fluffy.

[Havoc]

Just putting in the daily healthy dose of Hobo bashing, not specificaly related to the threat .

[Hobo]

Any normal person would realize that it's the character in the video game and not yourself who is causing it. You might be controling it, but you are not doing the damage with your very own hands. You are sending electric surges trough a wire to a computer that tells the character to do what it does. If you somehow think you can make a link between controling a game character and bashing someone's skull in in real life, you need to be locked away.

Yeah but meerly watching an advert may make you crave something, we all know it's not you in the advert or all these wonderful things won't happen to you, but yet we crave them. And people WILL do what their PS2 tells them to, like an authority figure. And we all know about blind obediance to authority don't we kids? Remember Milgram's study? I do!

There you go Havoc, go do some psychology qualifications before you question me on anything in the subject.

[Bullet Magnet]

And we all know about blind obediance to authority don't we kids? Remember Milgram's study? I do!

That data was falsified! I know because they deleted the study made on me, when I lead a test-subject uprising against the psycho-analysts making me electrocute that poor midget.

[Hobo]

That data was falsified! I know because they deleted the study made on me, when I lead a test-subject uprising against the psycho-analysts making me electrocute that poor midget.

What's wrong with you, midget electrocution is what made Britain Great!

[Statikk HDM]

I thought the Milgram study occured decades ago and their was no midget electrocution involved.
Yeah, over 40 years ago, and no midgets. You deceivers!

[Hobo]

It did but it's very widely copied and BM was messing around i feel

Fun experiment though

[Patrick Vykkers]

Maybe I'm just weird, but the only adverts that make me crave even slightly are KFC ones. And that's because KFC is DAMN good tasting, as my personal experience proves. Anything focusing on appearance bounces off me like a leaf on a Star Destroyer. Appearance doesn't matter, the brain does.