Baby Mudokons; baby or larva?

[Fred]

That's just a question but didn't you think that if mudokons (or Sligs or Glukkons) have the same lifestyle as the termites did when they born they are larva then, they become cocoon then, they become mature?

(Sorry but that's my first forum so, I don't know how it work.)

(Oh, and sorry if my english isn't perfect, I'm a french-canadian guy.)

[Nate]

Welcome to the forums.

Mudokons are hatched from eggs. I would assume they hatch as fully-formed muds as the Black closing newspaper from MO had a mud in a nappy. There could, hypothetically, be an intermediate stage but I doubt it.

[Fred]

Yes, but one time, I've got an idea about something...

Didn't you see that the Mudokon's (tail) is at the top of the egg. So, I've think that you have to keep the egg as the tail become at the same size then a mature one then, you have to break the egg to freed him and he is adult (I know this is stupid.)

[used:)]

Umm, I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about.

Anywho, yes, I think the Mudokon society is based off a termite colony.

[Matriar]

I can't fancy that mudokons are born like parasites with some larval stages and the rest...


oh, and welcome to the forums Fred!

[Slaveless]

I don't exactly get this. Mudokons are born as adults? I always imagined that they go through some sort of puberty stage or something. So if they are born adults, does that mean that they are young adults? And that would mean that Mudokon eggs would have to be at least, to some point, at least half the size of a normal Mudokon. But why are the labor eggs so small then?

Oh, and welcome to the forums, Fred.

[Fred]

Well, I've think that if Mudokons were in a foetal position in the eggs they must be enough small to stay in the eggs no?

And thank to you all for your welcome!

[Spirrow]

Yes, being curled up into a ball like a baby in a mothers womb
would probably allow them to fit in the eggs.

Welcome from Spirrow...

[ziggy]

I think they have tails just when they are a fetus in the egg. They develop in the egg just like a fetus in a womb. They will lose the tail when ready to hatch, and are born a mudokon baby (like the newspaper in munch's oddysee.) So they are small baby mudokons when born, and then grow to full size like Abe. This is what I think, so I don't think they are that insect-like and probably don't have a larval stage.

[Mudoko_Jedi]

wow fred already your first threads becoming a hit.
I think that mudokons are born at abiut half the size of a nowmal mud.

[Bullet Magnet]

Actually, the eggs are frekin' enormous. You see then when Abe carries them, or in the movie where the eggs are being loaded by the muds. It isn't unreasonable to think that they hatch fully formed, as they could easily fit inside.

However, I did always imagine baby mudokons, and reguardless of what they look like, I've always called them larvae.

[Fred]

You know, in fact, that's sure that the Mudokons born as babies becose in the bonus video of MO when you kill them all, you see in the newspaper a picture of a young Mudokon and he looks like a normal Mudokon but smaller.

[Sapphire]

If I remember right, for insects there are two different types of "metamorphosis" as they grow; complete and partial. Partial metamorphosis is like what a grasshopper goes through; it is hatched in just about the same shape as an adult grasshopper, but smaller, and as it grows, it sheds to accomodate growth, but otherwise remains the same basic shape. Complete metamorphosis is like a butterfly, moth, mosquito or any other insect that goes through a coccoon type phase. Butterflies have coccoons, which are woven from fuzz or silk, moths have pupae, which is actually their outer shell hardened into a protective coating... etc. In short, just because mudokons are hatched from eggs doesn't make them larvae. To be a larvae you'd either have to molt or go through complete metamorphosis I think, and they look pretty well-formed in the pictures of them we've seen. Who knows, though, maybe they go through a phase that determines what function they'll serve as adults, like how queen bees eat royal jelly when young and that triggers a horomonal change.

[Fred]

So, do you mean that if a Mudokon worker class eat royal jelly as he is a ''larva'' he'll become a Mudokon queen?

[used:)]

Mudokons don't produce honey of any kind. Where did you hear of this royal brand?

It seems Mudokons are based on the Termite order. When a queen realizes her death is near, she produces an egg which contains the next queen.

[Fred]

Thanks used. Now I realize my error.

[Wil]

Mudokons reproduce in the manner of hive insects, but I'm surprised nobody's made mention of the fact that, taxonomically, they are much more akin to reptiles or birds, which do not go through a process of metamorphosis as they mature.

[Zerox]

They would be like babies and mature in a similar way to humans (apart from the sexual features though, unless they are a specific King/queen). Termites only metamorphose because they are invertabrates, and their skeleton is on the outside of the body, meaning they have to shed it to grow in 'incomplete metamorphosis' where they are born as minituare adults almost. Butterflies etc. go through 'complete metamorphosis' and only grow their outside skeleton as an adult and do all the growing as a squishy larvae of some sort. An adult insect like a housefly or butterfly will never grow larger than that. The only growing is done as a larvae.
Vertabrates have an iternal skeleton and aren't resricted in the same way. Many vertabrates stop growing at a roug size or age, but some grow quickly to adulthood then slowly continue to larger until they die, as do reptiles.
As Mudokons are vertabrates with niternal skeleotns, metamorphosis is not necassary, so no larval stage is needed. They just grow from being a slightly less well formed version at birth.
The bit sticking out the top of the egg is the 'ponytail' of the Mudokon. Mudkon's have no tail, unless its a vestigial one like Humans do.
For the royal jelly idea, it may be possible then it may not. OI hasn't told us they do, but they haven't told us they don't. It seems that they are more like bee's or termites as opposed to ants, as ants yearly breed numerous queens and kings to breed and start new nests. With Mudokons, this probably does not happen. Otherwise, the Glukons would have used other queens to create more workers, and I presume we'd know about that.
The size of the eggs may be because so much nutrient rich yolk is in there to make the Mudokon grow quickly enough, even if not necassarily meaning that the egg will end up completely full up by the Mudokon.
The 'worker' class (as in referring to hive classes, not actual workers for the Glukkons) is waht we see most often, like Abe, Alf etc., and they are neutral sexually speaking. But they appear (by voice mainly) to be male. This makes sense. Ant workers are sexually neutral females, they can't breed but are still female. The same is with bee's, which is why the royal jelly works that way. Mudokons are similar except neutral males, which would mean a King could be grown when they queen needs to be fertilized again (depending on lifespan etc.). The queen may be able to create a sepecific female one deliberately in a special egg, but Kings may be needed more often, and either way, it's easier to use royal jelly to create Kings when necassary rather than making lots of seperate types of King egg and Worker egg. A Queen egg at the end of the lifespan after laying many worker eggs would make sense. Maybe two, and half the workers go off with the new egg, so that the species can icnrease in number rather than just stay pretty much the same. Presuming other the whole world of Oddworld, there's more than one queen.

Oh, and I welcome myself to the forum (how'd he get my name!?).

[Fred]

I think that Max the Mug is right. When you ckeck the Mudokons correctly you'll see that they more looks like reptiles then insects and lizards doesn't have any metamorphosis state. Except the fact that the Mudokons borns by a queen, they are more reptiles then insects.

[used:)]

All of the biology/society of the creatures of Oddworld seem to be a mish mash of the characteristics of Earth creatures, so it's pretty pointless to try and base your views on one Oddworld creature on a single Earth creature.