Those Stem-Cell researchers nose what's up.

[Nepharski]

Now obviously, the major controversy of Stem-Cell research is that the cells in question had to be previously harvested from fetuses. While some didn't view this as too much of a problem, there are those who did (Myself included). The Pro-Lifers, the Christians, the Life-At-Conception group...you know the crowd.

Anyway, I have recently got wind of a new developement that turns this whole fiasco into a win-win situation! Somewhere in Australia or someplace, some scientists have found that they can harvest the exact cells they need...from the human nose. Now, the aforementioned morality groups don't have to worry about the children, and the scientists can go back on their quest to seek an end to the various diseases and problems that Stem-Cell research will supposedly unlock the key for curing to.

Don't you love it when things all work out?

[TheRaisin]

I've always been confused about this subject. Exactly what do they do to these fetuses from which they harvest these stem cells? What happens to them? What is the impact? At what point in their development are the cells taken? What, exactly, IS a stem cell?

Anyway. Rock on for modern science. And Australians. This is pretty excellent news.

[MojoMan220]

These right-wing religious nuts will stop at nothing to interfere with science. They claim to be pro-life, yet they won't allow the proper research of something that can save lives. I highly doubt this controversy will be solved by a nose. When something sounds to good to be true, it probably is...

[sligster]

I've always been confused about this subject. Exactly what do they do to these fetuses from which they harvest these stem cells? What happens to them? What is the impact? At what point in their development are the cells taken? What, exactly, IS a stem cell?

They are fetus' from abortions. because they're so underdeveloped, apparently, their cells can morph into any cell in the body by placing it next to one. From what I've heard, get enough stem cells, and you would be able to recreate entire limbs. In likeness to this topic, say you got your nose ripped off. With enough stem cells placed on your nose, it would eventually regenerate your nose.

Or, as shown in South Park, if you place stem cells next to a Shakey's Pizza Parlor, they will create another Shakey's Pizza parlor

I dunno why there has been controversy about it in the past. They're dead fetus', so why not put them to some use, instead of letting them rot?

[Leto]

Very true there, SLigster. I couldn't have said it better myself. But now I am shakingn and am weak, so I'll be back on lalter to edit this.

[AquaticAmbi]

I dunno why there has been controversy about it in the past. They're dead fetus', so why not put them to some use, instead of letting them rot?

The controversy is there because some fear that if stem cell research from aborted fetuses is allowed, women looking for money will have abortions in order to sell their dead fetus for stem cell research. I'd say that's what has the "religious nuts" getting so worried; they're afraid the selling of aborted fetuses will take place, meaning children will be murdered for money in their opinion.

But as long as that never happened, I think research from that type of stell cells would be fine. I would think people with those religious views would actually be happy--a child's death would not be fruitless. Hopefully, cells from inside the nose will work just as well, and maybe even better.

I like win-win situations.

[soulstice]

I think Stem-Cell Research is fine. They should definitely go ahead with it, and ignore what other people say.

[SeaRex]

The controversy is there because some fear that if stem cell research from aborted fetuses is allowed, women looking for money will have abortions in order to sell their dead fetus for stem cell research. I'd say that's what has the "religious nuts" getting so worried; they're afraid the selling of aborted fetuses will take place, meaning children will be murdered for money in their opinion.

I don't even think most activists have considered that. Every time I flip on the news, it's always someone like Jerry Falwell (who, for the record, is a total nut job) simply arguing that the problem is, like sligster said, that "fetuses will be killed for science." I've always thought that was kinda silly, considering the loss of human life has never stopped misguided people from killing themselves and others in the name of God for "positive" gain.

But, to be perfectly honest, your argument is much more convincing, Ambi. I hadn't even thought of it that way... and if certain women start to become "Embryo Factories" for money, like you hinted at, then this whole thing could become a lot more questionable.

But yeah... nose stuff. Awesome?

[OANST]

Aquatic Ambi has the right of it as does SeaRex. It sends a message that murder is okay as long as it serves a higher purpose. I personally have a problem with that. I am pro-life myself. I am one of the few pro-life liberals that you will ever meet. The thing is that if you leave a sperm to its own devices it will swim around until it dies. If you leave a fetus to its own devices it will grow into a human being. Plus, I just don't like the idea of rewarding stupidity. If you got pregnant then that is your fault. You can always give the child up for adoption. However, if a woman is raped I see no reason why she should have to bring the child to term.

[drakan90]

Sod the nose stuff!
I want my army of Clones dammit!

I personally think that its down to the individual cases. For example rape victims should be allowed to do it, but slags who admit not knowing how babies are made should be slapped with Octopi
but obviously thats not gonna happen cos it wouldnt be efficient or cost effective. And it would harm Octopi. Eheheheeheehee. Octopi.

[Jacob]

I think if the Nozzle's work just as well, then yeh, Foetai are obsolete.

On the selling Foetai, however, why would the Scientists have to pay them? In normal circumstances (from what i'm aware) the women go to get an Abortion. They get it. Then the Foetus is thrown away. So, why don't the Scientists just do that, but instead of throwing the Foetus' away, keep them for hijinks. And if a silly little bint comes along saying "I wanna sell ma babbi, maaaate" just say "Shut the f*ck up, whore" and slap her before cutting her face off.

Why should Scientists pay them anyway?! They're unwanted children. You don't go selling your shit to Farmers, so why sell your unwanted Foetai to Scientists. Christ.

I do, however, find it bizarre that quite a few people are pro-Science and all for advancing our medical capabilities through unwanted Foetus', little things that don't deserve to die. But when it comes to experimenting on unwanted adults who do deserve to die, there's a sudden uproar.

Amusing.

[AquaticAmbi]

On the selling Foetai, however, why would the Scientists have to pay them? In normal circumstances (from what i'm aware) the women go to get an Abortion. They get it. Then the Foetus is thrown away. So, why don't the Scientists just do that, but instead of throwing the Foetus' away, keep them for hijinks. And if a silly little bint comes along saying "I wanna sell ma babbi, maaaate" just say "Shut the f*ck up, whore" and slap her before cutting her face off.

Why should Scientists pay them anyway?! They're unwanted children. You don't go selling your shit to Farmers, so why sell your unwanted Foetai to Scientists. Christ.

The selling could take place if the fetuses become high in demand after a few years of research, which could use up the majority of the aborted left-overs. If the scientists need much more, they could turn to paying women to get pregnant and have abortions. But hey, since there's so many abortions everyday everywhere, there would more than likely never be a dead fetus deficit.

Luke, you're right; what you mentioned is what the controversy is over--the simple argument that it's "killing in the name of science" despite the fact that the fetuses will never grow into adult humans. I just assumed everyone knew that part, so I was throwing in something a little less known. Heh, you know how I am about assuming people know things too often.

[Dino]

Um.

The source of the stemcell is not the problem (although fetuses are a bit of a rediculous thing to be taking stemcells from.. very much akin to the Queen masturbating in public, and a policeman eating the intestines of an arrested criminal). The problem is with the fact that they're wanting to use stemcells to grow whole bodyparts - it's playing with life, genetic modification in it's true form, with very real and very scary implications for the future.

All the anti-stemcell people who are against the use of fetuses are missing the point.

[Nate]

Perhaps they're missing the point but the harvesting of fetus' and embryoes is the main concern of the objectors.

I should point out that stem cells are also sourced from unwanted IVF embryoes - when a couple does IVF they extract many eggs and fertilise them all. They are frozen in case the first attempt at insertion fails. If they are successful and the couple doesn't want more children then they are simply thrown out but they can be used as stem cells.

The selling could take place if the fetuses become high in demand after a few years of research, which could use up the majority of the aborted left-overs. If the scientists need much more, they could turn to paying women to get pregnant and have abortions. But hey, since there's so many abortions everyday everywhere, there would more than likely never be a dead fetus deficit.

That's why we invented this marvelous concept called "Regulation". There used to be a market for bodies for medical science but a law was passed banning people from selling bodies for money and thus depriving honest grave-robbers of their employment.

[AquaticAmbi]

Don't patronize me, Nate. I was merely throwing out a less known reason of controversy created by people who fear a problem like that arising. I never said I was one of the people who believed that would actually happen.

As long as the appropriate regulations and provisions are made, which I'm sure would happen/has probably already happened, I will always be supportive of stem cell research. However, I do agree with Dino *shock* that there are some scary implications for the future without some other marvelous regulations, but the positive possible outcomes could be well worth the risk.

[Dino]

Indeed. The ability to grow a whole new identical bodypart would greatly advance the field of medical practice in areas that were previously too complex. Such as the eye, the retina, the hand, etc.

The question is though, would anyone attempt to create a brain, or a whole human? Or maybe they would begin a self sustaining race of advanced creatures that looked identical to us? Or what if a deadly genetic disease was created as a result of the research? How would such a thing be contained? How would the public respond to the inevitable holocaust-like mass execution of all the carriers?

[drakan90]

Wow...a super disease...Biohazard...extra arm thing...
Like...that movie! Where...they kill freaks...and stuff! Yeah.

[Nepharski]

These right-wing religious nuts will stop at nothing to interfere with science. They claim to be pro-life, yet they won't allow the proper research of something that can save lives. I highly doubt this controversy will be solved by a nose. When something sounds to good to be true, it probably is...

Actually, Mojo...every Christian I've ever spoken to about Stem-Cell research was ONLY against it because the cells had to be gathered from fetus, thereby costing the lives of unborn children (Saving lives, perhaps...but the research was also costing them). That's it. The onlt thing they don't like, is that these embrios have to be killed to get them. Basically, this new discovery means the one thing Christian's don't like about Stem-Cell research...is gone! Obsolete.

I see good things for the future.

Indeed. The ability to grow a whole new identical bodypart would greatly advance the field of medical practice in areas that were previously too complex. Such as the eye, the retina, the hand, etc.

The question is though, would anyone attempt to create a brain, or a whole human? Or maybe they would begin a self sustaining race of advanced creatures that looked identical to us? Or what if a deadly genetic disease was created as a result of the research? How would such a thing be contained? How would the public respond to the inevitable holocaust-like mass execution of all the carriers?

...By golly, I like your thinking.

[Leto]

Just for the record, Nepharksi, you have to be the main source of entertainment on this foum, topic-making wise. Take pride in the fact that you helping this forum stay alive in downtime.

I am pro-stemcell research. My opinions may be a bit biased, for one of my best friends is constantly wheel-chair bound due to muscular distrophe. I believe that with stemcell research (Or nose-stem-ness), something could be done to help him walk again. The worst part is, he could walk perfectly until about 7, then his hip joints began to fail, now he can't even stand up. If this type of research could regrow limbs, then we could have limb transplants or bodily organ transplants with having an organ donor. Perhaps even human hearts couldn be regrown, saving many.

[Nepharski]

Just for the record, Nepharksi, you have to be the main source of entertainment on this foum, topic-making wise. Take pride in the fact that you helping this forum stay alive in downtime.

Such are the duties of the only guy with the differing opinion.

I am pro-stemcell research. My opinions may be a bit biased, for one of my best friends is constantly wheel-chair bound due to muscular distrophe. I believe that with stemcell research (Or nose-stem-ness), something could be done to help him walk again. The worst part is, he could walk perfectly until about 7, then his hip joints began to fail, now he can't even stand up. If this type of research could regrow limbs, then we could have limb transplants or bodily organ transplants with having an organ donor. Perhaps even human hearts couldn be regrown, saving many.

Hey! I have no problem with Stem-cell research, save harvesting from fetuses. And now, with this new developement, it's as if everything is perfect! Whoo yah! And believe me...I'm not an "Anti-Science Nutcase." If it wasn't for science, I highly doubt I would even be alive here talking to you (I was waaaaay early).

Oh, and for the record, the Catholic Church partially funded and fully supports this new developement, so Ahah!*





*I'm not Catholic, but the people who think Christianity = Anti-Science need to be informed of their erroneous miscalculation.

[Jacob]

I've just been thinking about how this could help cure diseases and such, but, surely we need diseases to keep the population down?

I don't really know much about Stem-Cell research, so could somebody tell me if it could cure Cancer? Or AIDS? (Well, probably not AIDS, but meh) 'cos if it could, then my views on Stem-Cell research become blurry.

Like Dino is afraid of a virus being created sufficient enough to wipe out the entire human race, i'm starting to become afraid of the prospect of an anti-virus being created that can cure EVERY disease. This, though it may seem good a good idea, is a tad bad.

[drakan90]

Well the viruses are adapting so, thankfully, many people will still die horrible deaths, knowing they cannot be saved by modern medicine.
:-P .lol. I kid, I kid.

[Nate]

Actually, Mojo...every Christian I've ever spoken to about Stem-Cell research was ONLY against it because the cells had to be gathered from fetus, thereby costing the lives of unborn children (Saving lives, perhaps...but the research was also costing them).

Seeing as the embryo/fetus was going to be killed anyway (assuming that IVF and abortions don't suddenly become criminalised) what's your problem with them being used for research instead of being chucked in the incinerator?

I don't really know much about Stem-Cell research, so could somebody tell me if it could cure Cancer? Or AIDS? (Well, probably not AIDS, but meh) 'cos if it could, then my views on Stem-Cell research become blurry.

Not really. Stem cells can only replace cells/body parts that have degenerated or died. Eg alzheimers killing brain cells or diabetes the pancreas. Cancer is more to do with too many cells somewhere. It may be possible to rebuild an immune system for someone with AIDS but I doubt it and in any case they'd have to be cured of HIV first otherwise there'd be no point.