This is just getting stupid!!!!

[ClaireBear]

Recieved today!!!!

This is a warning for spamming in the thread: http://www.oddworldforums.net/showt...?t=10472&page=3

Your post was directed at one member, in this instance, Codek. It did not contribute to the thread in any way, other than to create more spam. Such a post could have easily been sent via a private message.

The post in question:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codek
Again sorry for being an ass, just not my usual self.


An ass!? I thought you were crack on mate!

Anyhoo....

but apology accepted I guess.

Who's with me in this?...

This has to stop... I for one have noticed that an aweful lot of the regular posters are no longer posting here.... where are they? Have they been banned?

I think we need to relly rethink who is the uber mod in here!!!!!!

[Alcar]

ClaireBear, you've only incriminated yourself by posting that. As you can clearly see, I explained the reasons for your warning. That you posted a response, that contributed nothing to the thread, other than to continue chit-chat and idle conversation between Codek and yourself.

The thread was not called "ClaireBear sucks up to Codek". If you have such a linear post aimed at one member, private message them. I do not see what is so difficult about this.

Alcar...

[Cyber-Slig]

Because Private messages are for PRIVATE things.All she did was say sorry to the guy.Thats not private.Else that if she did'nt say it and they spoke like friends again people won't know she even bothered to say sorry....

[caracal]

well...it does seem private to me, in the way that it wasnt relevant to anyone else

[Havoc]

Im with Clair on this one. This has to stop. What clair did is nothing special, it happands on every forum.

[Cyber-Slig]

no it does'nt seem private caracal.Talking about something sad or really happy to a you're best forum friend is private.Not saying ''Im sorry''

[Esus]

Private: Designed or intended for one's exclusive use
www.dictionary.com

Private is not necessaily something sad, sensitive, emotional, or just to a good friend. Private is something that has nothing to do with other people, except who you direct it at.
The apology was obviously directly solely at Codek, and it had literally nothing to do withbody else at all on the forum. If they wanted to, nobody could get anything from it (unless you're particularly intersted in relations between Clairbear and Codek)

[Cyber-Slig]

Right imagine 2 best friends are fighting

Friend 1 : Stupid mother****** ****tard!

Friend : 2 ******

and so on.Eventually they say sorry to eachother im a PM and then mysteriosly after a big fight they are friends again . But how would you feel if 2 people had a fight and later acted like it was never posted?It would be confusing would'nt it?

[Esus]

Not particularly. If the rules were followed, the arguement would never have existant, least of all away from Private Messaging and in an unrelated topic on a forum.

Oh yes, to the actual conversation:
This is what is stupid:
The incredible and ridiculous amount of stupid fuss people are making over the Rule Enforcement. Just don't break the goddamned rules, they are there for a reason - not to satisfy some teenagers love of power and ruining other peoples fun, they are here to keep the forums clean. To make it so that when people want to read a topic, they do not have to spend hours sifting through tons of rubbish which is in no way related to what they want to know.

A few people in this forum are making too much of a big deal about it. Some people are even leaving - good. If they cannot handle a few rules in a forum then I eally couldn't care less whether or not they stay.

[Fez]

I think this is getting out of order. I know that enforcing the rules make you seem like a "Good Person" but at the end of the day, people are leaving, because the rules are too much for them.

Codek and Luc, they were banned. Fair enough they had 3 warnings, but look past that, look how they acuted in most posts. They were responsable members, who contributed to alot of threads, and made alot of good posts. I am also lead to believe Sligslinger and DI have alos stopped posting.

Smell and Smitz, they were just damn scared away from the forums.

So, how the **** can you be a good law enforcement man, when you just lost 4 potentially and usually good posters?

[Adder]

Since this is an ongoing complain about, in essence, what is SPAM I feel I should give my view.

On most of the other forums I'm a member of, posting to chat publicly with others is accepted. Of course, most of the other forums I'm on have around 20 active members, so the thread and post count is small.

On OWF there are a LOT of people, all of which want to give their view. It's necessary to regulate Spam, but in this case I have to side with both Codek and CB.

I know it's against rules to talk about warnings and bans, but since Codek make a PUBLIC apology, it's only right that he receive a PUBLIC acceptance.

If Codek was NOT warned for his post, then CB should not have been. If Codek WAS, then he's obviously following rules about not speaking out about it.


I think there is a... good amount of Spam on OWF, but sometimes it's nice to see breif comments. It's better than people not posting because they think it won't contribute to the topic. Of course, it may result in an excess of one-on-one talk which should NOT take place in an active thread.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

[SeaRex]

Codek was banned, eh? I really don't see why that was necessary.

Luc, on the other hand, was annoying and spammed constantly, so I can understand banning him... even if it may have been a bit severe. However, Codek deserves to be here. I find that I often dislike/disagree with what he has to say, but he has always contributed to every thread he has posted in. Granted, he had many convos with CB that could have stayed in PMs, but come-the-f*ck-on. Codek has more than redeemed himself in his past posts.

Jesus Christ. I mean, compared to other forums, this forum is pristine. Believe it or not, we have very little spam. The spam we do have is disruptive and extremely bothersome, but not overwhelming. Myself, I've never had a personal problem with the administration. Hell, I like Alcar. The entire concept of a "rules crackdown scheme" doesn't really bother me. But banning a perfectly contributive member (Codek), even temporarily, just because he's a little conversation crazy is a bit too much.

Come on, Alcar man. Loosen the noose a bit.

[Hobo]

They're both temp bans as they both got 3 warnings.

[SeaRex]

Even so, it's the principle of the thing, hobo.

[Majic]

Stop giving out the warnings every which way. To me, this has gotten old fast. Why are we wasting our time on petty posts when we could just as easily be enforcing wholesome goodness between members? I'm tired of hearing about warnings, bans, and the definition of spam. Let us go ahead and close/delete pointless chatter, but just stop with the whole warnings thing. If a person constantly sees their posts deleted, if they care very much, which several of the spamming members did, they'll ask why and try to remedy the situation.

Going around trying to pop people with ultimately petty offenses is going to lead to nothing but more crap, which we don't need. Honestly.

[Mac the Janitor]

Stop giving out the warnings every which way. To me, this has gotten old fast. Why are we wasting our time on petty posts when we could just as easily be enforcing wholesome goodness between members? I'm tired of hearing about warnings, bans, and the definition of spam. Let us go ahead and close/delete pointless chatter, but just stop with the whole warnings thing. If a person constantly sees their posts deleted, if they care very much, which several of the spamming members did, they'll ask why and try to remedy the situation.

Going around trying to pop people with ultimately petty offenses is going to lead to nothing but more crap, which we don't need. Honestly.

Exactly my opinion on this matter. Giving out warnings does no good. Simply crush the spam on the spot.

And CB, you're constantly whining about the way you are treated on here...if you are treated so "horribly", why not just leave?

[ClaireBear]

Exactly my opinion on this matter. Giving out warnings does no good. Simply crush the spam on the spot.

And CB, you're constantly whining about the way you are treated on here...if you are treated so "horribly", why not just leave?

I'm with Majic... simply delete or lock threads or move them to a more appropriate board... pming the thread creator and/or the spam maker to inform them... no warnings... no bans... less OTT rules!

Mac... often its the constant whining which forces people sitting on the fence in a situation/discussion to speak up... as has been proven... above!

I'm am normally treated with the mutual respect I deserve... I enjoy the conversation here... whether it be on Stranger speculation or sex and marriage! It is enlightening and intelligent... often much better than some of the discussions I've had the misfortune of being involved in on other forums!

So basically... i won't leave... I'm mearly asking for reform and I feel we may be on the brink of a *CB whispers* revolution here!

[Rex Tirano]

I think this is getting out of order. I know that enforcing the rules make you seem like a "Good Person" but at the end of the day, people are leaving, because the rules are too much for them.

Codek and Luc, they were banned. Fair enough they had 3 warnings, but look past that, look how they acuted in most posts. They were responsable members, who contributed to alot of threads, and made alot of good posts. I am also lead to believe Sligslinger and DI have alos stopped posting.

Smell and Smitz, they were just damn scared away from the forums.

So, how the **** can you be a good law enforcement man, when you just lost 4 potentially and usually good posters?

I agree with Fez.

Come on, Alcar man. Loosen the noose a bit.

The rules are okay, just not so.. harsh.

Okay my opinion. I think that having a rule enforcement in a good thing. The staff are happy and it makes posts more relevant. However, the rules have obviously gone to far. All these members are going. Before them we had.. about 75-100 regular posters. That has dramatically dropped since the rule enforcement.

I think the staff should listen to the members on this one. If we can vote for mod changes every year, why can't we vote about what we want to do with the rules?

Alcar. I hate to say it. But if you don't do anything, the forum is going to go downhill.

[Majic]

I wouldn't say that too many posters have dropped ot becasue of the enforcement, or started posting less. Heck, the people who have been around for a good while aren't even affected at all. But it's the new posters who come around and participate that leave a plentifule amount of room for discussion. Of course, most of the older members (Both age and forum length) aren't going to have much trouble (Except maybe Clairebear). But a community needs more than a bunch of plain, overly drought discussion all the time, no matter how nice that would seem.

[Alcar]

Let's get one solid fact straight here, the number of members leaving is not dramatic. It is actually those members complaining and breaking the rules that are driving the members away. By posting the ridiculous crap I see in the Welcomes forum for new members, they are in turn driving our new members away.

About the suggestion of dropping warnings in favour of instant deletion. While it sounds good in theory, how do we discipline those that are continuous rule breakers? There has to be some form of punishment. It's just like murdering a person in real-life. Your actions have consequences, but we are kind, and we warn people before we place them in jail (ban them). I would like to eliminate the need for warning people, but every community has its idiots.

Alcar...

[oddguy]

Whoa...Alcar sure is serious about this. Comparing Spam to Murder!

-oddguy

[Adder]

There has to be some form of punishment...

I agree. Elimination isn't as good as prevention. You need to stop people FROM posting spam, not stop others from SEEING spam.

...but every community has its idiots.
Alcar...

Also true. There will aways be spam. However, you just used that post to possibly flame some group. You may just have been making a comment, but if you had ANYONE in mind then it borders on an assault. All you would have had to add was "Isn't that right {person}?(!)".

Still, I can't really comment on whether the stratagy is working. I try not to spam, and since I'm on Dial-up I avoid large topics because of loading time. I don't see an awful lot of spam around, but I never search for it.

The question I have is this, Alcar.
Do you think this new agressive stratagy is working?

[Esus]

In my opinion (though you didn't ask me), Im think it's working just fine. I also believe that what Alcar said in post #20 is spot on.

[Majic]

Let's get one solid fact straight here, the number of members leaving is not dramatic.

You're right, it isn't. But surely, some people would also be less tempted to post?

It is actually those members complaining and breaking the rules that are driving the members away.

And there wasn't much complaining until the whole "Rules Enforcment Scheme" came along. Which at first, was pretty nice. But by now, the benefits just seem highly outweighed.

By posting the ridiculous crap I see in the Welcomes forum for new members, they are in turn driving our new members away.

Agreed. Welcomes and Birthdays needs to be the one forum kept impeccable, if any.

About the suggestion of dropping warnings in favour of instant deletion. While it sounds good in theory, how do we discipline those that are continuous rule breakers?

PMing a warning tells a person that they screwed up, of course. But tacking a warning onto that just incites a bit of anger, and really doesn't produce much of a good vibe. If a person gets told a few times what not to do, they'll catch on. Nobody around this forum has the time and motivation too sit around posting nonsense just to give the place trouble. Give posters an ounce of intelligence, instead of harding down with some nitpicks.

There has to be some form of punishment.

This is a forum. An online collection of hosted files, and displayed pictures. People come here to relax and discuss with people they have at least one similarity with. While it's true this board may as well be the mecca of online Oddworld discussion and information, that doesn't mean every "t" has to be crossed and ever "i" must be dotted. It isn't fun, nor relaxing, to see where a person's post was deleted, or to see a member's title represent a temporary banning. It just makes you wonder either

a) How competent the members here are or
b) Why is this place so strict? It isn't that big. It isn't that official. It certainly doesn't seem to have much member/staff relationship going on.

It's just like murdering a person in real-life. Your actions have consequences, but we are kind, and we warn people before we place them in jail (ban them).

Ah, yes. How could I have missed that? Very few of the members ever banned actually deserved it. A bit of carelessness hardly relates to muder, and doesn't mean a person should be prohibited from posting on one of (if not their) favorite online community. Typically, people temporarily banned for spamming seem to be common posters who give a spark of enthusiasm to the place.

I would like to eliminate the need for warning people, but every community has its idiots.

Hey now, has some sort of spark been hit? I don't really recall you ever being so blatant and unofficial for a good while

Every community has people who can't type. Every community has people who just like to chit chat. But all that adds is a bit of character, and a chance to distinguish personality more for each poster. If you only have large vocabulary'd, nerdy and over opinionated posters, the place is bland. If you just have a bunch of nonsense and goofing off, the place seems meaningless from the outside. When ou have a mixture from the two, there's a place to fit in, and a place to enjoy. In real life, I'm sure all of us goof around with our friends. On the other hand, I'm sure we've all worked together in a serious manner on school projects, jobs, etc... with those same friends. Why try to place so much unneeded focus on trying to act like a high class country club?

I don't want to try and sound like I'm over dramatizing *cough Codek cough*, or being silly *cough Clairbear cough* or just... a bit off *cough Cyber Slig cough*, but for all practical purposes, this just doesn't seem to be working as well as I'd originall imagined it would.

[Fez]

Alcar, there is an old saying that goes "If it aint broke, dont fix it"

I think the forums were going just fine untill the law enforcement. It was not needed, and because of it I can see the forums slowly seperating once again.

Just put things back the way they were, I know it wasnt perfect, but we got by just fine.

[drakan90]

What, so now the mods arent letting talk to each other? Its a forum for gods sake! Not being able to post unless rigidly sticking to the threads title is just stupid. Who uses P-Ms for conversations anyway?

(back me up here guys! Dont say you do! Dont say you do!...even if you do!)

[Alcar]

You're right, it isn't. But surely, some people would also be less tempted to post?

I don't doubt it. Though one stark difference I have noticed is that General Oddworld Discussion is finally overtaking Off-Topic Discussion in the posts per day scale. However, I really don't see that I've gone overboard. I've let quite a number of posts slide through.

And there wasn't much complaining until the whole "Rules Enforcment Scheme" came along. Which at first, was pretty nice. But by now, the benefits just seem highly outweighed.

I've been complaining the whole time, just not on the forums. The reason I did not start any big enforcement scheme was because of forum polictics. I was no doubt going to get a lot of bad publicity and anger frolm this, and I was not going to start it if I was not backed by anyone. When there were a sufficient number of members who were digusted as I was, I brought in this scheme.

PMing a warning tells a person that they screwed up, of course. But tacking a warning onto that just incites a bit of anger, and really doesn't produce much of a good vibe. If a person gets told a few times what not to do, they'll catch on. Nobody around this forum has the time and motivation too sit around posting nonsense just to give the place trouble. Give posters an ounce of intelligence, instead of harding down with some nitpicks.

I understand, and to some extent we do that. We caution them before we warn them. But the majority of them break the rules again, and again.

Ah, yes. How could I have missed that? Very few of the members ever banned actually deserved it. A bit of carelessness hardly relates to muder, and doesn't mean a person should be prohibited from posting on one of (if not their) favorite online community. Typically, people temporarily banned for spamming seem to be common posters who give a spark of enthusiasm to the place.

But they are breaking the rules still. Just because they are common posters who add a spark, does not give them any bypass around the rules.

Hey now, has some sort of spark been hit? I don't really recall you ever being so blatant and unofficial for a good while

Everyone has their limits. My patience was all used up. The complete non-sense is over-whelming. Being that blatant was probably a bad choice, but sometimes being blunt has its advantages.

I don't want to try and sound like I'm over dramatizing *cough Codek cough*, or being silly *cough Clairbear cough* or just... a bit off *cough Cyber Slig cough*, but for all practical purposes, this just doesn't seem to be working as well as I'd originall imagined it would.

I know you've suggested that we tone down the warnings, but how did you originally imagine it would work? Surely you must have seen that there would have been some retaliation, it was expected. But not to this extent.

Alcar...

[the brew master]

However, I really don't see that I've gone overboard

your on a ****ing one man crusade for god sake..........

[Joshy]

your on a ****ing one man crusade for god sake..........

Many of the mods support it and many old members also support it. The people that are causing the most trouble are members that havent been here long.

[the brew master]

well ive been here for half a year........and besides a few old members dont support it either.