Something interresting: Stop the Sexist Seperation of Women, here's How -

Surfacing · #91 03-02-2002, 01:37 AM

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Originally posted by Dragadon
Maybe you are leaving them out because female solo artists are better then the male solo artists? *mischievious grin*

No i'm leaving solo artist out of it because i hate solo artist, be it male or female that's why i wanna keep em out, and yes i do think the female solo artist is the better solo artist.

Danny · #92 03-02-2002, 01:43 AM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
It depends if it was frequent enough, if a female singer was always #1 then yes that would make them #1 for that particular chart.

I don't think you quite understand what I'm getting at here.

You believe that what the majority thinks is necessarily true, right? After all, you tried to use the fact that the majority of people prefer male musicians to try and proove that they are better, right?

But then, I pointed out that most of what reaches the top of the charts is not only incredibly bad, but also often made by women. So it's nothing to do with "That particular chart". I am talking about the Singles Chart, IE the one that contains every single released, right? Now can you honestly say that you think that Westlife are absolutely better than Slipknot, simply because they are more popular? [I see little difference in quality, so you know, but I'm interested to know what you think here, since you would be contradicting yourself whichever way you turn...]

Surfacing · #93 03-02-2002, 01:44 AM

Danny you have msn, why did'nt you tell me this earlier i'll add you and we can talk about this topic on msn instead of jus increasing out posts here.

Sl'askia · #94 03-02-2002, 01:45 AM

To Surfacing: But wouldn't that be like excluding a certain population from a servay(sp) just because they are of a certain race? Sure solo artists are in a slightly different catagory...but music is music...

To Dan: (OT) I'm not on MSN because I am on a different computer that doesn't have it and with this computer I can't stay on long because we only have a limited number of hours free for internet. The computer that does have MSN on it is being used by my brother...who just got a new game, so I won't have access to it for a while...

Surfacing · #95 03-02-2002, 01:49 AM

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Originally posted by Danny
I don't think you quite understand what I'm getting at here.

You believe that what the majority thinks is necessarily true, right? After all, you tried to use the fact that the majority of people prefer male musicians to try and proove that they are better, right?

But then, I pointed out that most of what reaches the top of the charts is not only incredibly bad, but also often made by women. So it's nothing to do with "That particular chart". I am talking about the Singles Chart, IE the one that contains every single released, right? Now can you honestly say that you think that Westlife are absolutely better than Slipknot, simply because they are more popular? [I see little difference in quality, so you know, but I'm interested to know what you think here, since you would be contradicting yourself whichever way you turn...]

Ok with that whole westlife is abosolutely better than Slipknot thing is not true at all, see westlife may be more popular and they only reason they are more popular is because Slipknot have never ever been on the radio and i mean that not once! the have only been on mtv were they play a rather bad song "left behind" , also are you accusing statistics of lieing and cheating? I think the are preciousit to the number, also we are still argueing about Male bands being better than female bands right, otherwise i'm complety lost.

Gluk Schmuck · #96 03-02-2002, 08:12 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
1. Ok with that whole westlife is abosolutely better than Slipknot thing is not true at all, see westlife may be more popular and they only reason they are more popular is because Slipknot have never ever been on the radio and i mean that not once!

2. also are you accusing statistics of lieing and cheating?

1. By your logic Westlife is better than Slipknot because Westlife are more popular!

2. Not the statistics themselves, the people who use the statistics.
Case study:
Bush excluded Florida in the election. He manipulated statistics!

Surfacing · #97 03-02-2002, 11:59 PM

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Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck

1. By your logic Westlife is better than Slipknot because Westlife are more popular!

I never said westlife are better i said they are more popular, which does'nt make them better at all, unless the statistics were mearused threw out the entire music world.

Surfacing · #98 03-03-2002, 12:04 AM

So Danny, you think the majority of the world prefur female bands over male bands? I don't think you do you your self said you prefured male bands right? and so do i and so do a whole lot of other people, and since the majority of the people liek more male bands than female bands than yes i think that in it self is a statistic enough!, And you keep saying how about if they are wrong? Well then you would be to and so would i right? but we are not wrong unless you think the mojority of people that do like male bands better are insane, ( i found that unlikey).

abe22 · #99 03-03-2002, 12:21 AM

Surfacing Even if you do post a poll it proves nothing. A poll is just what a lot of people think it doesn't make it a fact. Don't you get it that OPINIONS CAN'T be Turned into FACTS. If you take the orange example and post a poll about "Do you like the tast of oranges" and most people say They do you can't turn that into a fact because it's an OPINION! Do get it!?

Surfacing · #**100** 03-03-2002, 04:16 AM

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Originally posted by abe22
Surfacing Even if you do post a poll it proves nothing. A poll is just what a lot of people think it doesn't make it a fact. Don't you get it that OPINIONS CAN'T be Turned into FACTS. If you take the orange example and post a poll about "Do you like the tast of oranges" and most people say They do you can't turn that into a fact because it's an OPINION! Do get it!?

But it can be turned into statistics which is a form of fact.

Gluk Schmuck · #**101** 03-03-2002, 10:12 AM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
I never said westlife are better i said they are more popular, which does'nt make them better at all, unless the statistics were mearused threw out the entire music world.

Well you were saying that male bands were better than girl bands because they are more popular.

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Originally posted by Surfacing
But it can be turned into statistics which is a form of fact.

It is a fact that Westlife are more popular than Slipknot. That has been proven by the singles charts and probably the album charts.
A band cannot be proven to be better than another band. It is subjective.

Teal · #**102** 03-03-2002, 01:07 PM

*gets out bone-saw and goes off to excise the part of Surfacing's brain that thinks opinion=fact*

But then, mushrooms are obviously far superior to tomatoes.

Sylvia · #**103** 03-03-2002, 04:59 PM

*singing* What about all of the... things that you said? What about all of the... ........ Huh? Oh, my view can be summed up in three words: What About Us? Now, really, people, the two genders are balanced. Females have better lower-body strength, while the males have better upper-body strength. See? They balance each other out.

*resumes singing* What about all of the... lies that you gave? .....

Melvin:squeeking paramite · #**104** 03-03-2002, 05:01 PM

Really, Sylvia? I never knew that.. Interesting...

*sings*

560th post! Yay!

Danny · #**105** 03-03-2002, 07:46 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
But it can be turned into statistics which is a form of fact.

This is where we have our problem. Statistics are NOT facts, especially not when all they measure is Opinions...

Fact: Most people prefer male bands to female bands.

Opinion: Male bands are better than female bands.

Clear?

Surfacing · #**106** 03-04-2002, 01:24 AM

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Originally posted by Danny
This is where we have our problem. Statistics are NOT facts, especially not when all they measure is Opinions...

Fact: Most people prefer male bands to female bands.

Opinion: Male bands are better than female bands.

Clear?

What makes you think that is a fact? That is just your own opinion, also don't you think the people that like male bands more think they are better aswell?

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #**107** 03-04-2002, 07:46 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
This is where we have our problem. Statistics are NOT facts, especially not when all they measure is Opinions...

Fact: Most people prefer male bands to female bands.

Opinion: Male bands are better than female bands.

Clear?

that fact was not a fact. You don't know that for sure because there are alot of people that I know prefer female singers. Especially guys because they like to drool over them like my brothers!

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #**108** 03-04-2002, 07:47 PM

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Originally posted by Danny

Which is why I said "to the best of my knowledge"...

Does this matter, anyway? It was a one-line throwaway joke halfway up the page, and now you come back to it...

Yeah so? Why are you so worried about it?

Doug · #**109** 03-04-2002, 07:57 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
Statistics are NOT facts, especially not when all they measure is Opinions...

I think it was Mark Twain who said that there are three types of untruths: Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Danny · #**110** 03-05-2002, 07:55 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
What makes you think that is a fact? That is just your own opinion,

"Most people prefer male bands to female bands" IS a fact, because surveys could prove it. They might prove it to be true, or they might prove it to be false, but either way, it is still a fact. "Male bands are better than female bands" is NOT a fact, because it could not be proven. All that could be proven is that most people prefer one to another.

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also don't you think the people that like male bands more think they are better aswell?

Yes, of course they would think that. But don't you see that whatever they think would also be an opinion? That's what I'm trying to say here: No matter how many people agree with a certain opinion, it is still an opinion, because it can't be proven.

Surfacing · #**111** 03-05-2002, 08:52 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
"Most people prefer male bands to female bands" IS a fact, because surveys could prove it. They might prove it to be true, or they might prove it to be false, but either way, it is still a fact. "Male bands are better than female bands" is NOT a fact, because it could not be proven. All that could be proven is that most people prefer one to another.Yes, of course they would think that. But don't you see that whatever they think would also be an opinion? That's what I'm trying to say here: No matter how many people agree with a certain opinion, it is still an opinion, because it can't be proven.

And if it was proven would that change your mind? Why does it have to be proven for you to believe me? just cause it's not a fact? can't you take my word for it?

Statikk HDM · #**112** 03-05-2002, 08:54 PM

Hmmm, britney spears instead of the swinging utters? NSync over Prong?!?! I guess dan has a point with the singles chart analogy. just 'cause it is popular doesn't mean it's good! Also, let us not overemphasize this fact: Stats are the slippery bastard love children of facts, and opinions usually don't mean a whole hell of a lot. By the way, a fuzzily defined tyopic such as this one usually degenerates into something that was eluded to in a side comment. From sports to single charts, what a tangled web we weave when at first we try to argue a point that is all about someone's tastes.

Danny · #**113** 03-05-2002, 09:01 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
And if it was proven would that change your mind? Why does it have to be proven for you to believe me? just cause it's not a fact? can't you take my word for it?

You don't quite understand - it could not possibly be proven. Taste in music is entirely subjective, and cannot be proven objectively. It is ruled out by definition.

Statikk: It's the nature of the beast - Topics go Off-Topic. I prefer it that way, since it makes for more interesting debates...

Surfacing · #**114** 03-05-2002, 09:05 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
You don't quite understand - it could not possibly be proven. Taste in music is entirely subjective, and cannot be proven objectively. It is ruled out by definition.

Perhaps a contest? If they got in te same amount of female bands and male bands and the male bands won the award then would that satisfy? Kinda like a grammy for best gender for bands would that help?

Danny · #**115** 03-05-2002, 09:10 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
Perhaps a contest? If they got in te same amount of female bands and male bands and the male bands won the award then would that satisfy? Kinda like a grammy for best gender for bands would that help?

I am intrigued. How do you plan to organise this so that the award isn't given out on the basis of anyone's opinions?

Surfacing · #**116** 03-05-2002, 09:15 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
I am intrigued. How do you plan to organise this so that the award isn't given out on the basis of anyone's opinions?

No no no! I'm saying hypathetically, i'm not planning to carry this out hell no.

But you personally do you think that male bands are better than female bands? Don't bring in your statistics just your own personal opnion will be just fine.

Danny · #**117** 03-05-2002, 09:29 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
No no no! I'm saying hypathetically, i'm not planning to carry this out hell no.

It was a rhetorical question. I was trying to point out to you that Awards are also due to certain people's opinion, and so can't be used to base your "facts" on...

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But you personally do you think that male bands are better than female bands? Don't bring in your statistics just your own personal opnion will be just fine.

I don't make the distinction. I like more male bands than female bands, yes, but I wouldn't put it exactly how you put it, since I also hate more male bands than female ones. The fact that I like more male bands is most likely simply a result of there being more male bands to like...

Surfacing · #**118** 03-05-2002, 09:31 PM

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Originally posted by Danny

I don't make the distinction. I like more male bands than female bands, yes, but I wouldn't put it exactly how you put it, since I also hate more male bands than female ones. The fact that I like more male bands is most likely simply a result of there being more male bands to like...

Ok tell me which 1 male band you like the most and 1 female band you like the most, and tell me which 1 you prefur more?

Danny · #**119** 03-05-2002, 09:42 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
Ok tell me which 1 male band you like the most and 1 female band you like the most, and tell me which 1 you prefur more?

*sigh* Leon, you have totally missed the point of what I was saying...

Besides, my "favourite" band depends on what mood I am in. If I had to choose, I'd probably choose Portishead, who are a mixed band anyway...

Surfacing · #**120** 03-05-2002, 09:46 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
*sigh* Leon, you have totally missed the point of what I was saying...

Besides, my "favourite" band depends on what mood I am in. If I had to choose, I'd probably choose Portishead, who are a mixed band anyway...

Is'nt your point that my thoughts on male bands being better than female bands just an opnion? If that's not your point than i'm completly lost.