Something interresting: Stop the Sexist Seperation of Women, here's How -

Danny · #61 02-27-2002, 08:11 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
Nothing you can say or do can change the fact (1) the males are more poplular (2) and more skilled (3) when it comes to bands, believe what you like but the truth is Females are no match againest Males in terms of bands.(4) And yes the greatest bands in the world are by men alot of people would agree with me on that, would you like me to put a poll?(5)

1, 3, and 4. Fact? For the (hopefully) last time, that is just YOUR OPINION!

2. Since when has "popular" meant "good"?

5. What would that prove? That would prove that, in many people's opinion, male bands are better than female ones. You can't use opinions to prove "facts", I do not want to have to say this again, but I will...

Surfacing · #62 02-27-2002, 08:14 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
1, 3, and 4. Fact? For the (hopefully) last time, that is just YOUR OPINION!

2. Since when has "popular" meant "good"?

5. What would that prove? That would prove that, in many people's opinion, male bands are better than female ones. You can't use opinions to prove "facts", I do not want to have to say this again, but I will...

Well you know what your saying is just a opinion too, i don't know how i could prove it to you with a fact tell me what do you want me to do to prove it as a fact, i'll do it just tell me, and also why are there more famous male bands in the world than women, that's no opnion that's fact if you name all the female bands you know compared to all the male bands you know i bet you know much more male bands right?

Danny · #63 02-27-2002, 08:34 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
Well you know what your saying is just a opinion too

No they are not. I have not stated my opinions, except once (and they more or less agreed with yours anyway). What I have been saying is that you can't say that women are no good at music, because that is your opinion, and cannot be stated as fact. None of your misogyny(sp) can turn Opinions into Facts...

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i don't know how i could prove it to you with a fact

You can't. That's what I'm saying.

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tell me what do you want me to do to prove it as a fact, i'll do it just tell me,

I don't want you to prove anything, I want you to accept that your opinions are your opinions and cannot ever be proven as facts one way or the other.

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why are there more famous male bands in the world than women, that's no opnion that's fact if you name all the female bands you know compared to all the male bands you know i bet you know much more male bands right?

Ah, so when the "quality" argument fails, you resort to the "quantity" argument, hmm? I do not dispute what you say here, but I would like you to tell me exactly how it proves your point.

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #64 02-27-2002, 10:00 PM

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Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck

Bisexual is more homosexual than hetrosexual is. I'll draw a diagram...

Hetro Bi Homo
See, Bi is closer to Homo than Hetro is!

OMG! I did'nt ask for all that man! Where did you get all that from? Nowhere.

Surfacing · #65 02-28-2002, 12:38 AM

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Originally posted by Danny

Ah, so when the "quality" argument fails, you resort to the "quantity" argument, hmm? I do not dispute what you say here, but I would like you to tell me exactly how it proves your point.

The way this proves my point is that, there are more male bands in the world than female, just the same as there are more prostitute's on the street than Jega lows. There are more Prostitutes on the street because they are better at what they do than Jega lows, the same men are better at playing songs and forming bands. Like i said Women are good at bands but not as good as males. Ok tell me your best male band and your best female band and tell me which you like better.

Danny · #66 02-28-2002, 06:55 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
The way this proves my point is that, there are more male bands in the world than female, just the same as there are more prostitute's on the street than Jega lows. There are more Prostitutes on the street because they are better at what they do than Jega lows, the same men are better at playing songs and forming bands.(1) Like i said Women are good at bands but not as good as males. Ok tell me your best male band and your best female band and tell me which you like better. (2)

1. So you really do think that there is a connection between what's good and what's popular? Have you glanced at the charts recently?

2. I had hoped not to have to say this again, but seeing as you haven't got it yet, I will say it again:

Your opinions do not matter. My opinions do not matter. You can't try and prove something to be a fact by asking people their opinions. Opinions do not (and cannot) prove facts.

Surfacing · #67 02-28-2002, 07:04 PM

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Originally posted by Danny

Your opinions do not matter. My opinions do not matter. You can't try and prove something to be a fact by asking people their opinions. Opinions do not (and cannot) prove facts.

So my opinion does'nt not matter huh? Ok then so acording to you if i saw a plane fly into a building that is just my opinion that is not really a fact, but everybody actually knows that yes a plane did go into a building, but like you said that's only my opinion therefore it is not really a fact.

Gluk Schmuck · #68 02-28-2002, 07:16 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
Ok then so acording to you if i saw a plane fly into a building that is just my opinion that is not really a fact, but everybody actually knows that yes a plane did go into a building, but like you said that's only my opinion therefore it is not really a fact.

If a plane flies into a building and you see it it is your opinion that the plane flew into the building, it is also a fact.

Surfacing · #69 02-28-2002, 07:20 PM

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Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck

If a plane flies into a building and you see it it is your opinion that the plane flew into the building, it is also a fact.

Please stay outta this, i'll deal with you when i'm threw with Danny, cause anything i say to you he will use agaienst me.

Gluk Schmuck · #70 02-28-2002, 07:52 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
Please stay outta this, i'll deal with you when i'm threw with Danny, cause anything i say to you he will use agaienst me.

Oh certainly, Sir. I'm terribly sorry for contributing to a thread on an open forum. It won't happen again, Sir.

Danny · #71 02-28-2002, 08:50 PM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
So my opinion does'nt not matter huh? Ok then so acording to you if i saw a plane fly into a building that is just my opinion that is not really a fact, but everybody actually knows that yes a plane did go into a building, but like you said that's only my opinion therefore it is not really a fact.

Okay, Surfacing, how old are you? I mean that honestly, because we generally learnt the difference between Fact and Opinion back in Year 10 English... Allow me to fill you in on this apparently hazy section of your knowledge:

Fact: A Fact is a statement that can be proven objectively to be true of false. The statement "Most Oranges are Orange" is a fact, as it can be proven to be true. The statement "Most Oranges are Blue" is also a fact, as it can be proven to be false.

Opinion: An Opinion is a statement that cannot be proven objectively, as it is subjective and can differ from person to be person and still be true. The statement "Oranges are nice" is an opinion. It is true from the point of view of the speaker, but it may not be true from someone else's point of view. There is no Objective Truth on the matter; It cannot be proven one way or another.

So, the statement "Most Bands are Male" is a Fact. The statement "Female bands are shit" is an Opinion. Learn to tell the difference, and I predict that this argument will cease...

Surfacing · #72 02-28-2002, 10:37 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
Okay, Surfacing, how old are you?
So, the statement "Most Bands are Male" is a Fact. The statement "Female bands are shit" is an Opinion. Learn to tell the difference, and I predict that this argument will cease...

I'm 16, also i never said female bands are shit i said they are not as good as male bands, though in definition it may seem as a opinion but realistically it is true because most people think the same thing. We can put a poll if you like, i did say that early, then then votes can be turned into statistics which can then be turned into facts.Anyways i don't have time to check my old english books to determine the Differences between opinions and facts.

Surfacing · #73 02-28-2002, 10:39 PM

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Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck

Oh certainly, Sir. I'm terribly sorry for contributing to a thread on an open forum. It won't happen again, Sir.

Why are you getting pissed at me for, post all you like just don't quote me, cause i'm stilling argueing with Danny, but be my guest post away, that ok with you PRIVATE!?.

Sl'askia · #74 03-01-2002, 12:22 AM

Oy...you have a thick skull or something Surfacing? What you said about female bands is what Dan said...your opinion it is not a fact.
I can't really form opinions on female bands...as I don't usually follow what group sings what (unless I really like a song and go to lengths to find out who sung it so I can get the cd...). In fact most of the time I usually just like one or two songs per group (there are exceptions...but to save from myself from getting tomatoed I won't mention the band names...).
Have you ever took into consideration that the reason female bands seem to be not as good as the guy bands is that there are tons (from what I can see) more guy bands then girl bands? Plus everyones tastes are different as Dan said. I know most of the regulars here dislike the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC...but I do (oh boy I did it now...*puts up shield*). Yes most of the 'bands' I like are male...but that doesn't mean a darn thing...that is just my taste.
Have you also considered the solo singers? They have good female singers there (Tina Turner, Madonna to name a couple of classics). Don't judge the music quality of a sex by bands alone pal...in fact many cases, IMO, many female singers are better then the guys. Here is a list of bands and solo artists I like (that I can remember off the top of my head):

Creed (male, band)
Yanni (male, mainly instramental)
Cusco (instramental)
Enya (female, solo...I think...) - BTW did you know she did two of the scores for LOTR: Fellowship?

Shakira (female, band)
Linkin Park (male, band)
Bon Jovi (male, band)
Michael Crawford (male, solo)
Michael Jackson (male, solo)
Madonna (female, solo)
S Club 7 (male/female mix, band)
NSYNC (male, band)
Backstreet Boys (male, band)
Briteny (female, solo...or is it band?)

ut oh...those last three got them riled I bet...*dives into her anti-tomato bunker*

Besides...I listen mostly to movie soundtracks...(BTW anyone know where I can find the soundtrack to FFX? I have looked and so far I can't find it...)

Teal · #75 03-01-2002, 10:32 AM

*gets popcorn and sits back to watch* I don't care what men say about women, I can kick 'em where it hurts just as easy as the next girl... Yes, the "glass ceiling" still exists (sadly) but that's sadly just a fact of life at the moment.

In all this talk of bands and suchlike, I am stunned and amazed no-one has reminded people of all the "Take That" type bands (male, I add) that exist in the world...

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Originally posted by Dragadon
S Club 7 (male/female mix, band)
NSYNC (male, band)
Backstreet Boys (male, band)
Briteny (female, solo...or is it band?)

ut oh...those last three got them riled I bet...*dives into her anti-tomato bunker*

*gets road drill and starts making hole in top of bunker through which to insert tomatoes...* Britney is evil incarnate, I hope you realise... (plus she looks like a poodle - am I now being breed-ist?)

*wonders if she can still find that "Whack-a-Britney" game...*

(seriously though, I don't care what people listen to. You can say "x is better than y" but then that's an opinion. It's like saying "tomatoes must be superior to mushrooms because they make better ketchup" - but then, some people like mushroom ketchup better than tomato, so would say mushrooms are superior...
*counts all the times she spelt "mushroom" wrong in that last post and goes to correct them*)

Gluk Schmuck · #76 03-01-2002, 12:25 PM

I prefer male bands and female soloists in general.

I'm not really that big a fan of music. I'll probably buy more albums in the future for some Xbox-releated reason...

Surfacing · #77 03-01-2002, 10:55 PM

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Originally posted by Dragadon
Oy...you have a thick skull or something Surfacing? What you said about female bands is what Dan said...your opinion it is not a fact.
I can't really form opinions on female bands...as I don't usually follow what group sings what (unless I really like a song and go to lengths to find out who sung it so I can get the cd...). In fact most of the time I usually just like one or two songs per group (there are exceptions...but to save from myself from getting tomatoed I won't mention the band names...).
Have you ever took into consideration that the reason female bands seem to be not as good as the guy bands is that there are tons (from what I can see) more guy bands then girl bands? Plus everyones tastes are different as Dan said. I know most of the regulars here dislike the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC...but I do (oh boy I did it now...*puts up shield*). Yes most of the 'bands' I like are male...but that doesn't mean a darn thing...that is just my taste.
Have you also considered the solo singers? They have good female singers there (Tina Turner, Madonna to name a couple of classics). Don't judge the music quality of a sex by bands alone pal...in fact many cases, IMO, many female singers are better then the guys. Here is a list of bands and solo artists I like (that I can remember off the top of my head):

Creed (male, band)
Yanni (male, mainly instramental)
Cusco (instramental)
Enya (female, solo...I think...) - BTW did you know she did two of the scores for LOTR: Fellowship?
Shakira (female, band)
Linkin Park (male, band)
Bon Jovi (male, band)
Michael Crawford (male, solo)
Michael Jackson (male, solo)
Madonna (female, solo)
S Club 7 (male/female mix, band)
NSYNC (male, band)
Backstreet Boys (male, band)
Briteny (female, solo...or is it band?)

ut oh...those last three got them riled I bet...*dives into her anti-tomato bunker*

Besides...I listen mostly to movie soundtracks...(BTW anyone know where I can find the soundtrack to FFX? I have looked and so far I can't find it...)

See even you your self just admitted to like male bands, and yes that is you just opinion but i think that can be alot of people opinion's aswell, this can be turned into statictics ( if we vote) And why are you getting the female solo artist involved i have nothing againest them, stick to bands please.

Danny · #78 03-01-2002, 11:04 PM

You still think that you can turn Opinions into Facts if you have enough of them, then? It's not going to happen, you know...

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #79 03-01-2002, 11:32 PM

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Originally posted by Gluk Schmuck
And yes, Dan asked. Sydney also asked in his questionnaire.

So, some people hide things.

Danny · #80 03-01-2002, 11:35 PM

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Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR

So, some people hide things.

Which is why I said "to the best of my knowledge"...

Does this matter, anyway? It was a one-line throwaway joke halfway up the page, and now you come back to it...

Surfacing · #81 03-01-2002, 11:37 PM

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Originally posted by Danny
You still think that you can turn Opinions into Facts if you have enough of them, then? It's not going to happen, you know...

Well we can atleast turn them into statistics don't you think? I'm mean how do you think presidents become presidents? Votes!

Danny · #82 03-01-2002, 11:49 PM

Elections are effectively surveys of people's opinions on who would make a better President. But just because most people think a certain candidate would make a better President than the others, does this mean that he necessarily is?

Surfacing · #83 03-02-2002, 12:06 AM

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Originally posted by Danny
Elections are effectively surveys of people's opinions on who would make a better President. But just because most people think a certain candidate would make a better President than the others, does this mean that he necessarily is?

Yes of coarse why would'nt it.?

Sl'askia · #84 03-02-2002, 12:14 AM

Surfacing...just because I like some male bands DOES NOT mean your 'opinion' is fact. Fow many times do we have to tell you? Just because you and 'supposidly' many others believe female bands are infieror to male bands DOES NOT (I repeat...DOES NOT) mean that they are. WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT TASTES!!! AND THAT IS THE MAIN POINT HERE!!!

Now...I know a lot of peeps that dislike country style music...but that doesn't mean that style is infieror to other forms of music. It's all a matter of each individuals tastes. I happen to like a wide range...in fact the only music styles I dislike is country, rap, heavy metal and some of the other 'heavier' types of music. But I don't berate the ones that listen to those types...if I hear it...I just ignore it. Err...I am rambing now...sorry...I meant the country thing to be just an example...

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And why are you getting the female solo artist involved i have nothing againest them, stick to bands please

I didn't say you had anything against solo artists...I was saying you shouldn't leave them out when it comes to a discussion like this. They are just as important as music bands IMO.
Besides...since when did statistics ever really mean anything when it comes to music? An individual will listen to what he/she likes...not to what the statistics say...like me with the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC. Besides...(with me anyway)I listen to their music for the music...not for the band (or because the band members are so called 'cute' or something..ugh...)

Here I go rambling again...I'll shut up now...(for now)

Surfacing · #85 03-02-2002, 12:19 AM

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Originally posted by Dragadon

I didn't say you had anything against solo artists...I was saying you shouldn't leave them out when it comes to a discussion like this. They are just as important as music bands IMO.
Besides...since when did statistics ever really mean anything when it comes to music? An individual will listen to what he/she likes...not to what the statistics say...like me with the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC. Besides...(with me anyway)I listen to their music for the music...not for the band (or because the band members are so called 'cute' or something..ugh...)

Here I go rambling again...I'll shut up now...(for now)

I think statistics is very important when it comes down to alot of things, how do you think grammy's are won? Hello Statistics (correct me if i'm wrong) and why is it important to mention the solo artists, so what they are musicians as well, big deal i'm not to concerned about the, i'm focusing on bands.

Sl'askia · #86 03-02-2002, 12:21 AM

Maybe you are leaving them out because female solo artists are better then the male solo artists? *mischievious grin*

Danny · #87 03-02-2002, 12:23 AM

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Originally posted by Surfacing
Yes of coarse why would'nt it.?

Oh dear. The situation may be worse than I thought...

What if the public (shock horror) didn't know everything? What if this particular president hadn't gotten into power? What if (shocking again) not everyone was right?

To use another example, take a look at the Singles Charts recently. Most of the time, a pop song holds the number one spot. Often, it's by a female singer. Now, does the fact that this single is the most popular one automatically make it the best? I would say No, but if you said No, then you would contradict what you've been saying about the majority being always right... On the other hand, answering Yes would be admitting that women can be as good at making music as men because (a lot of the time) it is a woman that occupies the number one spot.

[Now, I don't generally like what's in the charts, so there's no point in going on at me about it. But I want to see if you are consistent in your arguments...]

Sl'askia · #88 03-02-2002, 12:28 AM

and you have to remember that politians lie, cheat, and even kill to make it to the top...thats politics for ya...

If there was ever a truthful politian...hell would freeze over...

Danny · #89 03-02-2002, 12:35 AM

[OT: Why aren't you on MSN now, Rach?]

Surfacing · #90 03-02-2002, 12:35 AM

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Originally posted by Danny
Oh dear. The situation may be worse than I thought...

What if the public (shock horror) didn't know everything? What if this particular president hadn't gotten into power? What if (shocking again) not everyone was right?

To use another example, take a look at the Singles Charts recently. Most of the time, a pop song holds the number one spot. Often, it's by a female singer. Now, does the fact that this single is the most popular one automatically make it the best?

It depends if it was frequent enough, if a female singer was always #1 then yes that would make them #1 for that particular chart.