The innocence of...Islam. -

Mac Sirloin · #61 09-17-2012, 04:17 PM

Well, okay, in Sandman, they had like, advance technologies we haven't even discovered. Like flying carpets. And a form of emphasis above and beyond the brute force of italicisation. And flying carpets.

Islam used to be the bomb, now Islam is just wack.

I'm leaving this thread, because if it is not outrageously clear already, I can't comprehend how I can give a shit about this.

Havoc · #62 09-17-2012, 04:28 PM

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It took Christianity 2000 years to get to this point. Islam is currently at the point that Christianity was 500-1000 years ago.

Christianity didn't have a modern civalization everywhere around it where they could take reference from. Not that christianity is perfect because they still live in the stone age on many fronts just the same.

Wings of Fire · #63 09-17-2012, 04:55 PM

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Christianity didn't have a modern civalization everywhere around it where they could take reference from.

If you can't see culture shock as an oppressive force then you're not even trying to understand the other side, just projecting moral absolutes on them.

Look at how badly Buddhist Japan resisted the encroaching western influence for hundreds of years. This isn't a problem isolated to Islam.

Havoc · #64 09-17-2012, 05:30 PM

I didn't say it was. Every religion refuses to learn from other religions or cultures or even scientific discoveries because they always think they have all the right answers. Behavior like that is dangerous in any condition, not just Islam.

Laser · #65 09-18-2012, 01:53 AM

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the Islam is a much younger religion than Christianity. also do you seriously believe that every culture and religion develops at the same speed?

I didn't know it was a younger religion. I thought it was one of the really old ones like Hinduism

Wings of Fire · #66 09-18-2012, 02:26 AM

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I didn't know it was a younger religion. I thought it was one of the really old ones like Hinduism

Islam is an extension of Christianity just like Christianity is an extension of Judaism how could you not know that

Havoc · #67 09-18-2012, 05:29 AM

I didn't know that either. I know Christianity and Islam are basically based on the same thing though, right down to abusing little kids. Islam just made it legal.

STM · #68 09-18-2012, 07:28 AM

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Islam is an extension of Christianity just like Christianity is an extension of Judaism how could you not know that

Perhaps it never interested him. Not everyone has such an extensive and intricate understanding of all things like your own.

Islam is one of the younger faiths, Laser. Founded in 610 I think.

Wings of Fire · #69 09-18-2012, 07:38 AM

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Perhaps it never interested him. Not everyone has such an extensive and intricate understanding of all things like your own.

Okay, I was raised a Roman Catholic, so there's a bit of bias here, but I assumed it was common knowledge that Jesus was a prophet of God in the Islam faith.

Islam is refered to as an Abrahamic faith for a reason; that being that it comes from Abraham and Judaism.

Varrok · #70 09-18-2012, 08:25 AM

I knew that and I'm totally not interested. I also thought it was a common knowledge

Manco · #71 09-18-2012, 08:40 AM

I knew Jesus was considered a prophet in the Islamic faith, but it never crossed my mind that Christianity was older.

But then, I don’t know much about many religions.

Mac Sirloin · #72 09-18-2012, 08:43 AM

At least Mormons are nice. Apart from that 'blacks are unacceptable' business up til the 70's

Bullet Magnet · #73 09-18-2012, 08:50 AM

China still has that policy.

OANST · #74 09-18-2012, 09:36 AM

I always thought it was weird that Jesus would be considered a prophet by Muslims. It seems really conciliatory, like okay, we'll accept that your messiah was a pretty cool guy, and a messenger of god, even though we don't think he's the son of god. I mean, when else has Islam ever been willing to bend where their faith comes in. You'd think they would be denouncing him for blasphemy.

Wings of Fire · #75 09-18-2012, 10:35 AM

Because Islam evolved from Christianity and not Judaism? Islam denouncing Christ would be like Christianity denouncing Moses and the Ten Commandments.

OANST · #76 09-18-2012, 11:50 AM

I understand that it evolved from it, but arguing that something is logical when talking about religion doesn't really answer the question. Much of religion is completely illogical, and Muslims vehemently hate anyone who puts themselves on a level with their god.

Wings of Fire · #77 09-18-2012, 11:52 AM

So just ignore and decanonize the scriptures where Jesus claims to be God/the son of God etc. I mean, Christianity itself does it enough.

OANST · #78 09-18-2012, 12:11 PM

I understand what they did. I'm just saying that I find it strange.

Wings of Fire · #79 09-18-2012, 12:12 PM

I DUNNO OKAY

Bullet Magnet · #80 09-18-2012, 01:30 PM

Muslims don't believe that he said those things. I don't even know that he said those things.

A lot of Muslims don't even believe Christianity is monotheistic. 2000 years and the Trinity hasn't started making sense yet.

OANST · #81 09-18-2012, 01:34 PM

Well, Christianity is not monotheistic. Just because they say they are doesn't make it so. They believe in three gods.

Wings of Fire · #82 09-18-2012, 02:44 PM

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Well, Christianity is not monotheistic. Just because they say they are doesn't make it so. They believe in three gods.

I have never in my life been taught to worship the Holy Spirit.

***Nate*** · #83 09-18-2012, 04:59 PM

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I always thought it was weird that Jesus would be considered a prophet by Muslims. It seems really conciliatory, like okay, we'll accept that your messiah was a pretty cool guy, and a messenger of god, even though we don't think he's the son of god. I mean, when else has Islam ever been willing to bend where their faith comes in. You'd think they would be denouncing him for blasphemy.

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I understand that it evolved from it, but arguing that something is logical when talking about religion doesn't really answer the question. Much of religion is completely illogical, and Muslims vehemently hate anyone who puts themselves on a level with their god.

You're judging the politics of Islam in 610AD by your opinions of its adherents today. That's a absurd; they're completely different religions.

Also, incorporating the dominant local religions was a damned good way for a new faith to grow and draw in new members.

Bullet Magnet · #84 09-19-2012, 02:06 AM

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I have never in my life been taught to worship the Holy Spirit.

There's no reason why a god must be worshipped in order to be a god.

If I were an alien approaching Earth for the first time, I'd say that Catholicism has five gods: God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary and Satan.

They are different from each other in aspect and power level, but the distinction seems similar to that between the Titans and the Olympians, or the Æsir and the Vanir, or the Asura and the Deva.

Wings of Fire · #85 09-19-2012, 04:35 AM

uh, okay let me try that again

Christianity including Catholicism only have one God. His name is God. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are aspects of God. Not seperate entities. Jesus is venerated because he's the avatar of God on earth. But that's it. He's by no means a seperate God.

The Virgin Mary is a weird one, because as you said a lot of catholic doctrines will hold her up as an idol to be revered (Now what does that go against I wonder?) but one of my flatmates was staunchly protestent and very religious and he believed that it was wrong edging on blasphemous to venerate Mary and other saints like that.

As for Satan, I think you're confusing pop culture with the canonized bible. If Satan is a God, Gabriel and Michael are Gods. Simple as that.

STM · #86 09-19-2012, 05:20 AM

In Islam they ban the idolisation of angels for that specific reason, lest they be compared to Allah.

OANST · #87 09-19-2012, 06:16 AM

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You're judging the politics of Islam in 610AD by your opinions of its adherents today. That's a absurd; they're completely different religions.

I actually assumed that this was probably the answer. Not knowing enough about the difference between modern, and ancient forms of the Muslim faith, I thought it was very possible that their leaders were quite a bit less hard line then than they are now.

It's not fair to say that it's my opinion of the religions adherents, though. I just based that on observations of their most vocal religious leadership. I did not mean to imply that all Muslims are fundamentalist freak shows.

As for the other argument, if you think the Bible doesn't tell you to worship the Holy Ghost then you haven't read the Bible. The only sin that you can't be forgiven for is denying the Holy Ghost. If you even entertain the thought that the Holy Ghost isn't real then you are damned to hell. No coming back from it.

Mac Sirloin · #88 09-19-2012, 06:23 AM

I feel like bringing up how, in the old Testament, at one point god is sitting at a table talking with the other gods, and Enki or Xana'Hiel or whatever his name is, who is the current king of the gods, is doing a shit job, so Yahweh kicks his ass to the curb and becomes chief god. Someone more versed in this crap (oh look all of them are atheists) divulge on this.

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If I were an alien approaching Earth for the first time, I'd say that Catholicism has five gods: God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary and Satan.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

STM · #89 09-19-2012, 06:53 AM

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I feel like bringing up how, in the old Testament, at one point god is sitting at a table talking with the other gods, and Enki or Xana'Hiel or whatever his name is, who is the current king of the gods, is doing a shit job, so Yahweh kicks his ass to the curb and becomes chief god. Someone more versed in this crap (oh look all of them are atheists) divulge on this.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

I read the entire GNB Bible back to front (minus Psalms) a year or two ago. As far as I can remember no such event occurs.

Varrok · #90 09-19-2012, 06:56 AM