The innocence of...Islam.
So, i just wanted to find out people's opinions of this - the Innocence of Muslims video.
Do you think it should be banned? Do you think it's the most horrific thing in life? That the Jew who created this did so to kill Muslims and cause outrage in the Middle East?! THAT IT'S ALL ZION'S BIG PLAN!!!! Educate me. Elevate me from the pits of utter boredom i am facing tonight. Discuss. Javelin. Whatever. |
Haven't watched it. It never interested me in the slightest.
However it could well be used an an excuse for militant Libyan factions to demonstrate against the 9/11 anniversary. I couldn't really care less. |
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Ugh, Havoc please don't tell me you follow the Daily Mail crap where every Islamic person is on a Jihad against the western world?
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I'm usually on the fence leaning towards tolerence and moderation of the Islam side when it comes to the culture shock war, but the response of some middle eastern governments (Like Egypt) has been completely unacceptable.
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It's not just Middle Eastern countries. Islamic militants in London burnt US flags outside the embassy. I don't think it's a religious issue, it's a minority extremist issue which stains the whole population.
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Yes, but I'm talking about government level response. Heads of state pubically saying (or demanding) that the USA go against its constitution for their peace of mind is completely unacceptable.
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I think both sides are as bad as each other. Romney for instance, is advocating 'aggressive' methods to be taken against Libya as a country, because of some small-minded idiots. That being said, I do of course agree with you that any government response to the effect of what the Egyptian gave, is wrong.
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There is nothing that can possibly be said anywhere by anyone that can justify such a violent response. Their failure to understand this is a vicious indictment of them as individuals and potentially as a culture.
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I haven't seen the clip that caused the latest stir, and I don't care what is in it. No matter what it says about the Islamic faith, NOTHING warrants people going to the streets, beating people up and setting buildings on fire. If every group of people who got offended did that we wouldn't have a planet left. I think I've said this before somewhere but I'll put it down again. First and foremost, since we live in a free world, people have the right to offend others. It may not be the nicest thing to do, but when we live in a world where we can't offend other people scary things start happening. Secondly, still living in a free world, we have this thing called freedom of speech. And while that term is being used a lot in the past few years, sometimes fitting and sometimes not, it is still a right that most people in the world have. Freedom of speech allows a person to have an opinion and to express that opinion without legal consequence, no matter how extreme it may be. Those two rights intertwine a lot and the result is that someone's opinion might just be offending to someone else. Not to mention that for certain people and cultures, an offending opinion might simply be a truth they don't want to hear. Would that mean we can't talk about it then? We can't point it out or ridicule it, just because someone somewhere might take offence to it? The problem is that religion and Islam in particular thinks that being offended and being sensitive to insults is something only they are entitled to. People get offended all the time, religion gets offended all the time. Christianity gets offended ALL the time. Not even fanatic christians start rioting when their god or jezus is made fun of for the millionth time. Not to mention that Islam rarely wants to realize that THEIR culture and way of doing things might also be offensive to other people. Women all around the world take offence to how women should be treated according to Islam. Almost the entire planet, including other Muslims, take offence to the fact that a small faction of Islam thinks they can convert the entire planet to Islam by show of force and by killing thousands of innocent people. Do you see us beating up Muslims on the street and burning down Islamic embassies because of that? No. We hate it and we voice our opinion on it, but no-one riots about it on the scale that Muslims do on regular occasion. I remember a few years ago a cartoonist made a cartoon that implied Islam is a violent and dangerous culture. Obviously Muslims did not take this very well and to prove him wrong they sent him hundreds of death threats and assaulted the embassy of the cartoonists respective country. And while I realize that not every Muslim is like this and there are those who do not think like cavemen, I do think Islam in general is an arrogant, hypocritical, violent, dangerous and above all childish culture/religion that has absolutely no place in modern society the way it currently behaves. And now, /thread |
I think the Muslims that aren't reacting in a totally ludicrous way are MASSIVELY in the minority.
Just from twitter alone i've spoken to 'moderate' Muslims who think this guy should be locked up for life and have that video removed. I understand that a lot of the west is also being all 'Well, they shouldn't have called him a paedophile, then! Or had him talking to a donkey like some kind of fool!', but...he WAS a paedophile. ...and there's a hadith that has mentioned the whole donkey-talking-thing. It's such a shoddy piece of work. It makes me laugh how you have the guys rioting saying "IT'S PORTRAYING ISLAM AS A VIOLENT RELIGION THAT KILLS ANYBODY WHO CROSSES IT! THIS IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE! YOU, BRING ME MY MACHETE! I AM GOING TO KILL ANYBODY WHO CROSSES ME! AHMED! COME! IT IS TIME TO GO AND BUY AN AMERICAN FLAG TO BURN!" I mean, if they just ignored it, y'know, just said "F*ck, i find that offensive...but meh, what a load of bull." and turned over...well, it wouldn't have become such a MASSIVE hit. I've also heard reports that the guy who made it has been picked up by the FBI...which, when you think about it, is pretty-frickin'-worrying, guys. |
Possibly picked up by the FBI for his own protection?
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See? Normal people. It can be done. Good show.
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It's too bad they are a minority.
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Ok fair enough, I might have been a bit quick with that one. Not a minority, but I don't see them actively trying to do something about it either (holding a sign that says sorry, while empathetic, does not solve the problem existing in your own religion that you supposedly hold very very dear).
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He waltzes in and makes an incendiary thread every two years. It's his thing. |
I feel that the delighted tone of my exclamation (or ejaculation - thanks, QI!) may not have come across.
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The actual film is hilariously bad, the guy dubbed over the actor's lines, cause you know, who the fuck would agree to this film in the first place?
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Said muslim in Scotland is probably going to keep his head down and pray this all blows over before some white drunks decide to show him what freedom of expression means.
When an extremist member of group X does something bad, the people rendered most vulnerable by it are the normal members of group X. |
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Since the early 00's political parties have risen up to stand against it. The LPF party called for a complete immigration stop, for the first time ever they said in Dutch politics that immigrants, particularly those of Islamic belief, are causing too many problems and need to be dealt with. It caused a political shitstorm for years which we are still feeling the effects from today. In 2002 the leader of that party was assassinated in my home town, 10 minutes away from my house. It wasn't done by an Islamic extremist, but by a left wing extremist who wanted to prevent a second Adolf Hitler to rise to power (or something to that effect). It worked too, because that party dropped from being the most popular to completely out of existence in 3 years. Two years later Theo van Gogh, a Dutch film director who had made a movie about the negative sides of Islam, was assassinated in the center of Amsterdam by an Islamic extremist. This devided up the country so badly it wasn't even funny. Hate against Islam was everywhere in the first few weeks to follow and was, while irrational, understandable. Which brings me back to my original story (I figured this deserved some back story). That second assassination spawned the creation of the Party for Freedom, Geert Wilder's party. He's extremely anti Islamic, extremist in some ways but right in a lot of others. A few years ago he made a video called Fitna that caused world wide rage amongst Muslims, while it merely summed up a bunch of facts about Islam (see truth they don't want to see in previous post). Thanks to that, he's been walking around with a 4 man security detail 24/7 for about 5 years now. That's the state of Islam in our country at the moment, which might explain why my stance is a bit skewed. |
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luckily he lost. |
As a matter of fact, I did vote for him. But his views have toned down since his very first year as a party. He's mostly hammering on harder punishments, restructuring social stuff and getting the fuck out of Europe (flee a sinking ship, which is what I would do. Unfortunately the majority of this country think that enough 5 euro bills can patch the massive leaks). He wants to get out of the EU so we can have control back over our immigration policy though, which is currently dictated by the EU. We are obligated to take in x thousand of immigrants a year, which is complete bullshit.
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Your reaction is the same as lot of my fellow countrymen. Apparently you're just a few steps away from being chased with pitchforks when you tell someone you vote for Geert Wilders. Despite that he did end up as the single largest growing party in 2010, going from 9 seats in parliament to 24 seats. And he ended up as 1 of three parties forming the actual ruling coalition. These last elections he dropped down to 15 seats, so he lost pretty big. But don't assume that just because a party has the label 'anti-Islam' that voting for it is retarded, because that's not the way it works. Too many people assume that without even reading their ideas though.
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I'm somewhat sympathetic to the people protesting the film. Obviously I don't think they're right. But they've grown up in a culture that demonises the USA so badly, that they think this sort of behaviour is mainstream there and that the country as a whole supports it. I don' think that the film should be censored, but I think that people of all religions (and especially Christianity) should be publically calling it out for being full of shit. |
Words are the correct response to words.
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