London Bombings -

Al the Vykker · #**271** 07-23-2005, 11:23 PM

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Man Killed in London Not Linked to Blasts

Damn, people are idiots...

That is really depressing. =/

Facsimile · #**272** 07-24-2005, 02:48 AM

Holy crap. That's terrible. If they had him pinned you would think that they would just handcuff him or something. It's not like he was in any position of power being pinned to the floor by multiple cops.

Godlesswanderer · #**273** 07-24-2005, 03:25 AM

I think they thought he had a bomb strapped around himself and any pressure could set it off. Don't ask me why they pinned him though.

I don't mean to sound inconsiderate but it was kind of his fault for getting shot. Firstly, he jumped over the ticket barrier with no intention to get a ticket. He then ran to the platform and ignored the police when they told him to stop and get down on the ground. He then broke into a sprint and tried to get on the train. Leaving the armed police no choice but to shoot who they thought was a potential suicide bomber.

Hobo · #**274** 07-24-2005, 03:53 AM

They pinned him because he tripped and they then shot him because they didn't want to risk him being a suicide bomber, it's one life against several hundred including your own. I'd rather they shot one innocent than played with the chance of 100 people's lives. And if they hadn't shot him, then the press would have had a field day with 'Police had bomber in his gunsights' and all that. I for one am glad that they chose to act this way, while being saddened that an innocent life was lost, it was his own bloody fault for not stopping.

Jacob · #**275** 07-24-2005, 09:01 AM

I agree with Hobo, i'm of the sort of mindset that the ends justify the means. And even though he wasn't an actual danger, i'd much rather the Police go on the assumption somebody is a danger and make a mistake, than go on the assumption they're not and have 100's of people wounded and killed.

used:) · #**276** 07-24-2005, 09:27 AM

I see what you mean. Although it isn't great they killed an innocent man, what would have happened if he did have bobs strapped on to him?

Dino · #**277** 07-24-2005, 09:46 AM

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I think they thought he had a bomb strapped around himself and any pressure could set it off. Don't ask me why they pinned him though.

I don't mean to sound inconsiderate but it was kind of his fault for getting shot. Firstly, he jumped over the ticket barrier with no intention to get a ticket. He then ran to the platform and ignored the police when they told him to stop and get down on the ground. He then broke into a sprint and tried to get on the train. Leaving the armed police no choice but to shoot who they thought was a potential suicide bomber.

I agree. The guy was basically asking for it. Had it have been any normal day then I would say that he didn't deserve it but considering the current climate in London, it's a pretty stupid thing to be doing.

MojoMan220 · #**278** 07-24-2005, 10:53 AM

For God's sakes people, he was being chased by plainclothes officers! What the Hell would you have done if you were being chased by a group of intimdating men with guns? He wasn't asking for, he did what any of us would have done in that kind of situation.

I can't believe you guys are so willing to give up your freedoms. Fear makes people do stupid things.

Esus · #**279** 07-24-2005, 10:59 AM

Yeah, I'm sure the police didn't tell him they were police or anything.

MojoMan220 · #**280** 07-24-2005, 11:12 AM

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Yeah, I'm sure the police didn't tell him they were police or anything.

That's rather presumptuous of you. Even if they did say it, one half of people in that situation would probably stop, the other half would probably keep running.

Hobo · #**281** 07-24-2005, 11:22 AM

No, they must have declared that they were plain clothes officers, i believe it's required by their rules over here. Otherwise his actions become slightly more justified. But with 20 of them, and reports that they delcared it, i think it's pretty safe to say one of them did

MojoMan220 · #**282** 07-24-2005, 11:26 AM

I wasn't there, so I don't know. I'm not even going to speculate, we will never be able to here his side of the story.

Esus · #**283** 07-24-2005, 11:36 AM

I trust enough in my police force to assume that one of them would have told that they were the police, seeing as they are the rules.
No need to presume the worst when they tend to acheive the best.

Dino · #**284** 07-24-2005, 12:41 PM

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I can't believe you guys are so willing to give up your freedoms. Fear makes people do stupid things.

That's rich coming from an American.

Nobody is giving up freedom here, this is a priorty situation. When a plain clothes officer pulls out a weapon, a badge, and announces that he is a plain clothes officer and that you are to freeze, you're a dumbass not to do it, because by law they have to shoot to kill if you don't comply, especially in a priority situation. This guy chose to run when the police pulled their guns out and it left them no option. The British people look at this and say "well the guy ran and gave them a legally acceptable reason to shoot to kill, at least the police are doing their jobs by the book and properly sorting out this terrorist thing". Brits don't think like you yanks do... we don't see this as taking our freedom away, we see it as doing what is necessary... doing our bit for Blighty. We in the UK YIELD for the police and other services to let them get on with their goddamn job, rather than being subversive little shits and whinging and whining all the time about taking freedom away and about the cops doing what they have to do.

The guy was innocent of the crime they shot him for, but he still broke the law by jumping over the gates. Idiots don't live long, and this guy was an idiot. When there is a terrorist situation, you just don't do this kind of shit.

May I ask which freedom was taken away here? The freedom to run from the cops when they suspect you of being a terrorist?

MojoMan220 · #**285** 07-24-2005, 01:45 PM

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That's rich coming from an American.

Stop trying to belittle me with your predjudice, anti-American slurs. Yes, I'm an American, but I'm not one of the people that blindly follows this nations leaders. I'm not for the Patriot Act, and I don't own a terrorist survival kit.

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When a plain clothes officer pulls out a weapon, a badge, and announces that he is a plain clothes officer and that you are to freeze, you're a dumbass not to do it, because by law they have to shoot to kill if you don't comply, especially in a priority situation.?

I have not read an article that refers to such an action being taken. What I have read merely states that they chased him with guns and shot him five times. If you have seen an article that clears up this matter, please post it, I would be willing to change my mind. I'm basing my knowledge on what I've read.

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The guy was innocent of the crime they shot him for, but he still broke the law by jumping over the gates. Idiots don't live long, and this guy was an idiot. When there is a terrorist situation, you just don't do this kind of shit.?

Passengers said that the man looked absolutely petrified, anyone would be if this happened to them. You weren't there, so you have no idea exactly how these events played out.

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May I ask which freedom was taken away here? The freedom to run from the cops when they suspect you of being a terrorist?

No, it's a policy of shoot first, ask questions later. You could be just a normal citizen completely unaware that your suspected of being in contact with terrorists. If a group of men with guns, in civilian attire chase you and you run, you'll be shot. You have rights that should protect you from this. The evidence should be more solid then a suspicion.

Dino · #**286** 07-24-2005, 08:29 PM

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Stop trying to belittle me with your predjudice, anti-American slurs. Yes, I'm an American, but I'm not one of the people that blindly follows this nations leaders. I'm not for the Patriot Act, and I don't own a terrorist survival kit.

Failure. It wasn't an anti-American slur. What you were so blindly accusing Britain of, is what America is guilty of.

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I have not read an article that refers to such an action being taken. What I have read merely states that they chased him with guns and shot him five times. If you have seen an article that clears up this matter, please post it, I would be willing to change my mind.

Look for it yourself you misinformed lazy infidel.

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I'm basing my knowledge on what I've read.

Then you read a faulty, biased document.

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Passengers said that the man looked absolutely petrified, anyone would be if this happened to them. You weren't there, so you have no idea exactly how these events played out.

And you're an American, so you have abosolutely no authority to tell me that I don't know exactly how these events played out. YOU are the one who doesn't know how this played out, not me.

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No, it's a policy of shoot first, ask questions later.

Yeah "fight the power" you ignorant little shit. WRONG. The LAW which everyone in England KNOWS states that if you run from a policeman who has reason to believe that you might be dangerous, you can be shot. Therefore you never run from a policeman.

These police announced that they were police, and that they wanted this person to freeze. He ignored them and continued, attempting to board a train. It's his fault for being an idiot, not the police for doing their jobs properly.

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You could be just a normal citizen completely unaware that your suspected of being in contact with terrorists.

It doesn't matter what you're suspected of. Everyone in the UK knows about plain clothes police, everyone in the UK knows about the London bombings, and everyone in the UK knows about the laws about doing what the police tell you to do, and what happens if you don't comply. There's no excuse for it, yet he still ran. He was an idiot.

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If a group of men with guns, in civilian attire chase you and you run, you'll be shot. You have rights that should protect you from this. The evidence should be more solid then a suspicion.

Shut up, you clearly know nothing of our rights or what we should be protected from. These plain clothes police are the people who protect us from terrorists, and they do an amazing job. Why should there be "rights" that make it legal for a terrorist to run away from a policeman without getting shot? That's just politically correct bullshit and all it would do is kill hundreds of people rather than save the life of a few morons who decide to run rather than comply.

You know it's actually illegal to not comply with a policeman? So the guy had already done something stupid just by running. Why should these idiots be defended? They're just criminals anyway, he probably ran because he was guilty of some other crime and thought the police wanted to bust him for it. So it's one less person in jail, one less person soaking up taxpayer's money in police custody.

MojoMan220 · #**287** 07-24-2005, 10:18 PM

More name-calling from Dino. Not a surprise.

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Failure. It wasn't an anti-American slur. What you were so blindly accusing Britain of, is what America is guilty of.

I never accused Britain of anything. My comments were obviously directed at those in this thread, the people who don't question such actions. Where I live has no relavance to this discussion. I'm not going to group you up with all of Britain, it's just plain silly. A location is a location, it doesn't mean the inhabitants have the same ideas.

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Look for it yourself you misinformed lazy infidel.

Funny. I already looked, every article has been fairly vague on the actual details of the event. It sounds to me that you, yourself have not read of such an event taking place, but are merely assuming. If you know it to be fact, present the article. It would definately strengthen your claims. I'm not at all saying this detail does not exist, but many reports do have it absent.

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Then you read a faulty, biased document.

Yeah, that must be it.

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And you're an American, so you have abosolutely no authority to tell me that I don't know exactly how these events played out. YOU are the one who doesn't know how this played out, not me.

Neither of us do, that's the point. Were you there? No? That's what I thought. Just because you happen to live closer to the events then I do is negligible.

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Yeah "fight the power" you ignorant little shit. WRONG. The LAW which everyone in England KNOWS states that if you run from a policeman who has reason to believe that you might be dangerous, you can be shot. Therefore you never run from a policeman.

You really have a way with words. There's no doubting that plainclothes officers cause a miscommunication when they confront a suspect. A lot of innocent people have died because of it.

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These police announced that they were police, and that they wanted this person to freeze. He ignored them and continued, attempting to board a train. It's his fault for being an idiot, not the police for doing their jobs properly.

You could also call the officers who shot him in the torso, idiots. If they believed he was strapped with explosives under that heavy jacket, it's probably not a good idea to shoot the damn thing. A shot or two to the head would have gotten the job done fine.

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It doesn't matter what you're suspected of. Everyone in the UK knows about plain clothes police, everyone in the UK knows about the London bombings, and everyone in the UK knows about the laws about doing what the police tell you to do, and what happens if you don't comply. There's no excuse for it, yet he still ran. He was an idiot.

For all this man knew, they could have been the terrorists. We don't know what the man was thinking, humans have a tendancy to run when they're afraid. Not everyone is as cool and collected as yourself.

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Shut up, you clearly know nothing of our rights or what we should be protected from. These plain clothes police are the people who protect us from terrorists, and they do an amazing job. Why should there be "rights" that make it legal for a terrorist to run away from a policeman without getting shot? That's just politically correct bullshit and all it would do is kill hundreds of people rather than save the life of a few morons who decide to run rather than comply.

I'm sure they are doing a great job for the most part, but when innocent civilians are killed because of a hunch, there's a problem. If these were uniformed officers, it would be very stupid for him to run, but as I said the lack there of, causes confusion. It's not difficult to believe that someone would react the way he did.

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You know it's actually illegal to not comply with a policeman? So the guy had already done something stupid just by running. Why should these idiots be defended? They're just criminals anyway, he probably ran because he was guilty of some other crime and thought the police wanted to bust him for it. So it's one less person in jail, one less person soaking up taxpayer's money in police custody.

More speculation, you're on a role.

These flame wars are becoming awefully redundant. This forum used to be such a nice place.

T-nex · #**288** 07-24-2005, 10:21 PM

Why can't you two just stop flaming each other, and discuss this like mature people. Understand each other's view of point, and then make some kind of conclusion out of it. I'm getting sick of all the thread, getting filled up with flames. I think that there has been flames in evry single thread, created recently. Please just stop, or you will be the cause of this threads' closure.

MojoMan220 · #**289** 07-24-2005, 10:25 PM

I have not done anything along the lines of flaming, my tone is calm, my arguements valid.

Hobo · #**290** 07-25-2005, 02:01 AM

Doesn't look like flaming to me, looks like some of the most constructive argument i've seen in this thread.

Jacob · #**291** 07-25-2005, 07:36 AM

'Doesn't look like flaming to me, looks like some of the most constructive argument i've seen in this thread.'

From what i've seen, it's only Mojo who's acting like a mature adult. At any opportunity Dino gets, he gets his phallus of insults out and starts waving it around in everybody's faces. I wouldn't really mind, but he's seemingly only doing it to belittle and embarass Mojo.

I personally agree with what the Police did, but to back Mojo's point, the guy was Brazillian and he had been working here illegally for quite a few months. Not only that, but, from what i've read, he was from a violent part of Brazil where people carried guns. Now, if you came from a country like that, and you spoke very little English, and you saw plainclothes peeps aiming guns at you, i think you'd defecate yourself and speed off too.

I know that if i was in Iraq and something along the same lines happened there, there'd be a Jacob shaped hole in anything that got in my way.

Dino · #**292** 07-25-2005, 11:01 AM

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More name-calling from Dino. Not a surprise.

More bigotry and ignorance from MojoMan. Not a suprise.

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I never accused Britain of anything.

Yes you did, you accused it of giving up it's rights/freedom because of fear. That's what has happened in the US, not what's happened in the UK. Nobody has given up any rights.

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Funny. I already looked, every article has been fairly vague on the actual details of the event. It sounds to me that you, yourself have not read of such an event taking place, but are merely assuming.

I am assuming nothing. I live in Britain, and therefore have access to superior news sources on the subject, just as I deserve. You've no real right to access breaking news, but I, as a citizen of the UK, have priority over the details. So don't be so suprised when the only thing you manage to get ahold of for a wihle amounts to "OMG LIEK THE UK WAS SOOOO BOMBED IN LONDEN! TEH TERROROIST ARE LIEK, GETTING CHASED BY TEH SCOTTISH YARDz0r!".

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If you know it to be fact, present the article. It would definately strengthen your claims. I'm not at all saying this detail does not exist, but many reports do have it absent.

Fine I'll find you an article when I can be bothered.

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Yeah, that must be it.

Again, don't be so suprised if it is. The US don't really give a shit about the UK, so they're not about to start providing accurate information on it. The only time you ever got anything that truely concerned the UK that we didn't get (which is an absolute travesty) is the Diana tapes. Especially considering that the majority of you didn't have a clue who Diana was, nor did you care.

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either of us do, that's the point. Were you there? No? That's what I thought. Just because you happen to live closer to the events then I do is negligible.

No it isn't. It affects me as a British citizen, because it's MY country that's being attacked, not YOURS. Therefore I need to know all the little facts and details. You however, do not, because you're several thousand miles away.

When 9/11 occured, who had more right to comment on it, and speculate, and come out with crackpot theories, and moan about their rights being taken away? US citizens or UK citizens? It's the US of course - and that's the way it was. We in the UK thought what was happening was terrible, but to be honest the majority of us really didn't comment much on it, or even give a shit, and in fact some of us were glad to see a few Americans die for their stupidity in the middle east, as sick as that idea may be.

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You really have a way with words. There's no doubting that plainclothes officers cause a miscommunication when they confront a suspect. A lot of innocent people have died because of it.

No they haven't. Present your proof of that please.

Everyone in the UK is fully aware of plain clothes officers, and because it's illegal for ANYONE except police to carry guns, most if not all people KNOW that they are plain clothes police the very second they take their guns out. It's really quite hard to get guns illegally in the UK, and it would be especially difficult to arm five people with five identical police issue guns. So I find it unlikely that this guy came to that conclusion.

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You could also call the officers who shot him in the torso, idiots. If they believed he was strapped with explosives under that heavy jacket, it's probably not a good idea to shoot the damn thing. A shot or two to the head would have gotten the job done fine.

Police know better than you where to shoot a man armed with explosives, so do not make assumptions. The police are not the idiots here, it's the dude who ran away, he's the idiot. The police had their reasons for shooting him where they did, and they did a good job. Personally I'm glad they killed him, I'd rather have him dead and hundreds safe, than have him still alive, doubt of the police's ability to do their job, and him potentially detonating a bomb.

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For all this man knew, they could have been the terrorists. We don't know what the man was thinking, humans have a tendancy to run when they're afraid. Not everyone is as cool and collected as yourself.

As I said, they were all English police with English accents, armed with five identical police issue guns. It would've been a HIGHLY unlikely conclusion to make. But if this guy did make that conclusion, then it's his own fault. There's going to be some casualties of this thing, not through police doing a bad job, but from them obeying the law and doing their job properly, and other people just being idiots. If you don't like UK law, then tough luck, because we DO - it defends our great country from terrorists and does a fucking fantastic job of it too.

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I'm sure they are doing a great job for the most part, but when innocent civilians are killed because of a hunch, there's a problem.

No there isn't. They obeyed the law and did what they HAD to do. For starters he wasn't innocent, he broke the law by jumping the barriers and running from a police officer. When someone runs from five police officers after they shout "FREEZE! POLICE!" and then tries to board a train, it's more than a hunch. It looks a whole damn lot like a suicide bomber in fact. To be able to come to the conclusion that the guy isn't a suicide bomber is MORE reckless than to kill someone who fucking well does a brilliant job of making himself look like one.

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If these were uniformed officers, it would be very stupid for him to run, but as I said the lack there of, causes confusion.

Not in the UK it doesn't, for aforementioned reasons.

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It's not difficult to believe that someone would react the way he did..

Yes it IS difficult to believe. He reacted stupidly - if I was in a tube station, knew about the current climate created by the London bombings, and then had 5 people pull out guns and tell me "FREEZE! POLICE!", I'd just do what they say. I mean of COURSE there is going to be plain clothes officers there to control these terrorists... do you think that uniformed police would ever be able to track them down? They're so easy to avoid because you can see them coming.

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More speculation, you're on a role. These flame wars are becoming awefully redundant. This forum used to be such a nice place.

Whatever. I'm a UK citizen, I'm allowed to speculate, cause I know the laws and the way things work here. If this were a US attack, then you would be the one with the license to speculate.

Rex Tirano · #**293** 07-25-2005, 11:30 AM

Right-ho. On the news [although it was ITV] it was told that the man shot dead had been living in England for months on an expired visa, so perhaps that is why he ran. [However the man's family is thinking of sueing the British Government].

I agree with what the Police did. If the man had gotten away, there woul've been this crap all over the news about a bomber on the loose, it would've caused mayhem. Nevermind the Police being verbally attacked.

It's unfortunate the man died, and it shouldn't of happened. But if he had been living in England for months, he surely would've picked up some of the language. Especially an important word such as "Police".

- Rexy

Jacob · #**294** 07-25-2005, 12:47 PM

'because it's MY country that's being attacked'

Well, technically, erm, yes, it's not your country...as you're Spanish.

'Everyone in the UK is fully aware of plain clothes officers, and because it's illegal for ANYONE except police to carry guns, most if not all people KNOW that they are plain clothes police the very second they take their guns out. It's really quite hard to get guns illegally in the UK, and it would be especially difficult to arm five people with five identical police issue guns. So I find it unlikely that this guy came to that conclusion.'

I find it doubtful that when somebody pulls out a gun, you're going to be all "Now, is that an illegally acquired firearm, or is it standard issue for the Police?" especially when you're a Brazillian.

It's also worth noting that the Police allowed him to actually go to the Train station (this includes boarding a bus), not, if they were so worried, surely they'd've taken him down straight away?

I personally don't think the Government or Police should be sued or stand trial, they did their job, they made a mistake, oh well, get over it. It's going to happen. I also loathe the fact that American who shot dead that Iraqi shooter whilst he was injured on the floor has been brought to trial. It disgusts me, anyway.

MojoMan220 · #**295** 07-25-2005, 02:27 PM

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More bigotry and ignorance from MojoMan. Not a suprise.

I'm not intolerant of your opinions and I'm not oblivious to the world around me. I welcome all arguemnts on the matter, but when they become personal attacks, they're not helping anyone.

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Yes you did, you accused it of giving up it's rights/freedom because of fear. That's what has happened in the US, not what's happened in the UK. Nobody has given up any rights.

I know who I was directing that question to, so you can believe whatever you like.

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Fine I'll find you an article when I can be bothered.

That's all I ask, I'm interested to see this whole mess cleared up. If it's as solid as you say, I won't hesitate to shift my stance. You also need to keep in mind distance and ambient noises, they can have all the impact on issues involving communication. I'm not sure if there's anything out there quite that specific, but it could make all the difference.

I'm not going to reply to everything you said, you make some good points, I disagree with some, but I respect them. (Actually, it's because I'm a lazy infidel)

I know It may seem like I'm hurting my own argument by saying this, but the truth is more important. The man spoke almost perfect English according to his relatives. He had been living in England for the past three years, so it's unlikely that the man was confused about the laws and his surroundings. I do however, still believe that the actions taken by the man could make a lot of sense in the context of the situation. I believe there are other ways that these types of situations can be handled, without killing the person. If the evidence against him was strong, a shot to the head seems more reasonable to me. This is merely my opinion, no flaming please.

Dino · #**296** 07-25-2005, 06:39 PM

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'because it's MY country that's being attacked'

Well, technically, erm, yes, it's not your country...as you're Spanish.

Yes but I was born here, I have full UK citizenship, and my dad is English. So really it is technically my country.

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It's also worth noting that the Police allowed him to actually go to the Train station (this includes boarding a bus), not, if they were so worried, surely they'd've taken him down straight away?

Maybe they wanted to confirm whether or not he was heading for the station, which might've been something that possibly matched up with intelligence reports or something?

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I personally don't think the Government or Police should be sued or stand trial, they did their job, they made a mistake, oh well, get over it. It's going to happen. I also loathe the fact that American who shot dead that Iraqi shooter whilst he was injured on the floor has been brought to trial. It disgusts me, anyway.

I agree. They did a damn fine job too.

Jacob · #**297** 07-26-2005, 03:11 AM

'Yes but I was born here'

Well, you're not Spanish then, you're British. English at that. It's like me saying i'm Italian/Dutch/Irish, when i'm not, it's in my heritage, but i was born in England. And so i am English. I don't see why you would tell people you're Spanish, it's bizarre.

'Maybe they wanted to confirm whether or not he was heading for the station, which might've been something that possibly matched up with intelligence reports or something?'

Regardless, if he was a suicide bomber, do you really think the Police would've allowed him to get five feet away from his front door, let alone take a bus to the Train station. Also, if he was a suicide bomber, surely as soon as the Police shouted "POLICE! FREEZE!" he'd've blown himself up, hoping to take the Police with him.

I hope the Police involved don't get taken to trial.

Leeum · #**298** 07-26-2005, 03:41 AM

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I hope the Police involved don't get taken to trial.

Agreed, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it.

If the guy was innocent then why did he turn round and jump a ticket box barrier and continue running? It gave the police reasonable suspicion; how could he just expect to get away?

There are two choices the police were faced with, shoot him in the head or don’t bother. I know personally I’d rather shoot him point blank than live with the burden of him blowing up a train along with innocent lives.

used:) · #**299** 07-26-2005, 10:25 AM

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'Yes but I was born here'

Well, you're not Spanish then, you're British. English at that. It's like me saying i'm Italian/Dutch/Irish, when i'm not, it's in my heritage, but i was born in England. And so i am English. I don't see why you would tell people you're Spanish, it's bizarre.

Jacob, what he means is Spanish is his ethnicity. I'm half Peruvian, that doesn't mean I from the country. Spanish can mean two things, the general term used for Hispanic, or, the term used for a person from Spain. Get it? Got it? Good!

Dino · #**300** 07-26-2005, 10:30 AM

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'Yes but I was born here'

Well, you're not Spanish then, you're British. English at that. It's like me saying i'm Italian/Dutch/Irish, when i'm not, it's in my heritage, but i was born in England. And so i am English. I don't see why you would tell people you're Spanish, it's bizarre.

It's kinda complicated. To the Spanish, it's your mother who is important... so if your mother was Spanish, then you are Spanish - it doesn't matter who your father was or where you were born. Also, where you are concieved is important, as I was concieved in Spain. But mostly it's to do with your mother... I share more of her genetics than I do of my dad, so I'm more like her than I am like him as a consequence, which is another reason why I'm considered Spanish rather than English.

Another factor is that I have a citizenship in Spain too, so I am just as much a citizen there as I am here.

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Agreed, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it.

If the guy was innocent then why did he turn round and jump a ticket box barrier and continue running? It gave the police reasonable suspicion; how could he just expect to get away?

There are two choices the police were faced with, shoot him in the head or don’t bother. I know personally I’d rather shoot him point blank than live with the burden of him blowing up a train along with innocent lives.

I agree with you 100%.