The Perfect World

[Sydney]

As a continuation of the "Worse Problem Of Human Society Today" topic, I'd like to hear opinions on how a perfect society can exist and how we'd realistically acheive it. Here's what I think:

Hatred and greed, two of the many problems contributing to earth's problems are components of a simpler problem: human nature. For example, racism is an extension of nature's programming; evolution equips us with the basic urge to look after ourselves and our own kind. Groups with characteristics different to us might pose a threat to our own group's genetic spreading, explaining why racists behave the way they do. Racists tend to have lower intelligence when compared to their non-racist friends, so perhaps they behave in accordance with those simplified rules of survival. Rather than taking the most logical steps to ensure the passing-on of their genes, they behave recklessly and with animal-like vigour.

This simple rule duplicates itself in just about every faucet of human society. Religion and culture are just extensions of human nature, and uses the same rules in an effort to prolongue themselves. Acknowledging this, is the solution to make all humans the same? Would it be unrealistic of me to ask the world to become more intelligent, eliminating the niche for racism? Yes.

One solution could be to genetically alter humans so that our desires for self-preservation and gratification aren't so deepset, slaughtering the planet's naturally-bred humans. The results might include passivity to the extent of extinction, but we could always try.

Another solution might be simply accepting the universe. We may be on the quest to end suffering, but who are we to argue with mother nature, who has developed these rules over billions of years?

[Surfacing]

The perfect world huh Sid. The perfect world will cease to exist aslong as the human race lives. This world is filled with idiots Sid, and even if we some how did manage to pull off such genetics ideas like you had mentioned, i'm sure we will incounter even tougher more superior problems.

[Whistling kettle]

Originally posted by Surfacing
This world is filled with idiots.

That's true................ Me, you and you and you, you and also you..................................................

Perfect world? Nothing is perfect and nothing will ever be........

[pinkgoth2]

Originally posted by Sydney
[...] Would it be unrealistic of me to ask the world to become more intelligent, eliminating the niche for racism? Yes.

One solution could be to genetically alter humans so that our desires for self-preservation and gratification aren't so deepset, slaughtering the planet's naturally-bred humans. The results might include passivity to the extent of extinction, but we could always try. :)

Another solution might be simply accepting the universe. We may be on the quest to end suffering, but who are we to argue with mother nature, who has developed these rules over billions of years?

You can change the world, sure. But if you do, remember you will get used to it. There will be other things. People who are the least intelligent of those intelligent people will then be called dumb and might show behaviour that the most intelligent class as animalistic.

As for the accepting bit. *HUGE HUG* Thank you. I accept the world as it is. Try and change bits here and there for myself, I suppose, but mostly accept it. I keep in mind what I said in the former paragraph. You'll probably hear me rant that the stupid people in the world ought to be removed, like you suggested. I wouldn't, really.

I'm a hopeless optimist, I suppose. Reviewing the first paragraph I wrote (as I have countless times) makes me wonder again if there are sadder or happier people on this planet or if we're not all the same on an emotional level. Considering you get so used to whatever situation you're in - be it luxury or be it poverty - I think the whole concept of "envy" and these things might be misplaced, although they are refreshing emotions when felt. *grin* "Pain is good - it reminds you that you're alive."

By the way, I don't think the whole animal side of mankind is all that bad. Be aware, if nature hadn't left mankind to be animal, I doubt people would breed or even bother living. So you'd not be born. *muhahahahaha*

Again, I think hate and greed are good things. Too much of them is bad, no doubt (though I doubt it has integrity). Too much of everything is bad (as to not repeat myself, I will leave that statement to stand as it is). Hate makes you personally be able to see what love is and give it to those that really deserve it, like your parents or your significant other. If you have an enemy, why not hate them? They're certainly not going to leave you alone any more if you make big puppy eyes and say "but, but... i care for you, even though you hurt me!"... or whatever.
And greed - aren't we all guilty of it? You want to see a tomorrow, don't you? You want to live, and you want to be happy. Heck, just to be a little twisted: you want society to get better.

I'll shut up now.

Oh! No. Wait. Perfection: If we'd reached it, we wouldn't know, trust me.


- TyA

[pinkgoth2]

Originally posted by Whistling kettle
That's true................ Me, you and you and you, you and also you..................................................

Perfect world? :) Nothing is perfect and nothing will ever be........

Compared to the single smartest person out there (whoever that might be), we're all idiots indeed.



- TyA

[Doug]

Originally posted by pinkgoth2
[1]"Pain is good - it reminds you that you're alive."

[2]Hate makes you personally be able to see what love is and give it to those that really deserve it, like your parents or your significant other.

[3]If you have an enemy, why not hate them?

[4]Perfection: If we'd reached it, we wouldn't know, [5] trust me.

1. When I'm badly in pain, emotionally or physically, I'm not particularly appreciative of being alive.

2. I disagree. Loving those close to you doesn't require a knowledge or awareness of hatred. And real love is given whether it's deserved or not.

3. If there was no such thing as hate, and the world's resources were shared, there would be little, if any, reason to have enemies.

4. I disagree. If the world became perfect tomorrow, I'd know it. Any perfect society that studied history would know they had one even if they grew up in it.

5. Why? Do you have some kind of inside information?

[morphius]

If the world was perfect there would be no need for heaven, so a utopia is improbable...........

[Statikk HDM]

Morphious, what are you eating, drinking, smorting smoking or injecting because whatever it it must be damn potent. My idea of "utopia" ould be freedom for everybody to do what they want, as long as it does not physically harm another person. No government intervention, hardcore vigilantisim running rampant instead of some wimpy justice system, and free sattelite access and internet access for all people. Oh, sweet sweet bliss that would be

[Danny]

Originally posted by pinkgoth2
And greed - aren't we all guilty of it? You want to see a tomorrow, don't you? You want to live, and you want to be happy. Heck, just to be a little twisted: you want society to get better.

I accept and agree with your reasoning for why Hate is a good thing, but I don't see how the fact that everybody is Greedy makes Greed a good thing...

Personally, I think that the solution lies in Education. Yes, Nature and Nurture both have a part to play in the deveopment of Human Nature, but the fact that one facet of that makes us Selfish and Intolerant does not mean that we should back that up with the other... In our society, people learn to be selfish, as well as having it programmed. I'm not talking about education in Schools, but about the general influence of the Consumer Society. I'm not as naive as to blame Capitalism for all of the world's problems, but it is definately a contributer to many of them...

I believe that humans are heading down one side of a U. Things are going to get considerably worse over the next few decades, but then after that, people will realise how shit the world is, and will turn things around. Of course, once things have become nice, people will become complacent, and things will slide down again, so it's a cycle. But the Earth has shown remarkable resilience before, as has the Human Race. It will cope, and so will we.

Meh, I rambled a bit there, but I think my points got across...

Originally posted by morphius
If the world was perfect there would be no need for heaven, so a utopia is improbable

I can't even see where you're trying to come from with that one... Situation A makes Location B obsolete, therefore A is unlikely? Could you please elaborate, as I can't see the slightest bit of logic behind it...

[Statikk HDM]

Education's job is to teach people, not to be a moral and physical goverment instituted babysitter. I think that all education should be state runned and that they should teach instead of being all morals and p.c. shit. Teach the kids so that they arn't 28th out of 28 countries on a math proficiency test and give these people the solid, ****ing basics and let the rest fall to the wind as it may. No preaching, no politics, no touchy feely crap, just the three r's

[Statikk HDM]

Oh, you meant natural law as in what society accepts, not as a law of right and wrong in all human beings or of public ed. sorry, Dan P.S., can I call you Danny? That seems so alien to me, I am never quite sure how to adress you so i always stick withthe formal Dan. Is that o.k.?

[Dequibenzo]

I think the perfect world would be my basement, at 1AM, with a bad monster movie playing as I eat ramen noodles and drink Mountain dew with a close friend, and I pet my little hamster, who's asleep on my arm, and all three of us would laugh at the cheesey effects used to make the monster seem like it's flying or something. Call me crazy, but that's my utopia, right there.
And, aww, I want a big hug from Pinkgoth, too. *whines a whole lot, finishes his ramen, pops in another tape*

[Lampion]

A perfect world could be achieved if everybody were telepaths, so that we could only say the truth to each other.

[pinkgoth2]

Originally posted by Dequibenzo
I think the perfect world would be my basement, at 1AM, with a bad monster movie playing as I eat ramen noodles and drink Mountain dew with a close friend, and I pet my little hamster, who's asleep on my arm, and all three of us would laugh at the cheesey effects used to make the monster seem like it's flying or something. Call me crazy, but that's my utopia, right there.
And, aww, I want a big hug from Pinkgoth, too. *whines a whole lot, finishes his ramen, pops in another tape*

*chuckles* You want a hug from me? I'll try not to suffocate ya, but I can't guarantee anything. *hug!* By the way, it's "pinkgoth2"... pinkgoth is Noko of Apollo440 per definition of my own... though I am flattered to be called that. *laughs*

I do agree with you, though. Perfect world - very subjective thing. :)


- TyA

[Sydney]

Originally posted by Dequibenzo
I think the perfect world would be my basement, at 1AM, with a bad monster movie playing as I eat ramen noodles and drink Mountain dew with a close friend, and I pet my little hamster, who's asleep on my arm, and all three of us would laugh at the cheesey effects used to make the monster seem like it's flying or something. Call me crazy, but that's my utopia, right there.

I agree with you in regards to life's simple pleasures being what makes it so great, but your lifestyle is hardly what most of the world will ever have a chance to experience. My whole point is that a perfect world is only available to a minority, and as long as that minority is satisfied, they'll sit on their arse with a blind eye to a world stricken with poverty.

[Teal]

Originally posted by Lampion
A perfect world could be achieved if everybody were telepaths, so that we could only say the truth to each other.

Eh, I can't say that'd be a very perfect world - some people lie so they don't hurt other people. May not be exactly a shining example of perfection, but still... If everyone told the absolute truth to everyone, I can see there being just as many fights going on as if there was the occasional white lie...

[paramiteabe]

If you think about it. If there was a perfect world life as we know it would be boreing and not interesting. But then again sometimes I wish we lived in a perfect world.

Heres my thought, the only reason why we don't have a perfect world is because of the fact that we were put on this world with a free will to live. In other words freedom to take other lands, freedom to do as we please, Free to do just about anything. The result of this freedom is our socity we live in today. It is us humens who choose the paths we follow. God gave us this free will. If God dident give us a free will then we all would be like drones. We just choose to live like this. If thats the case then makeing a perfect world would be a simple matter to take on. We would all just have to think a like. But I know that could never happen because we all are different in our own special way good or bad and that is what makes our world in the way it is now.

A perfect world may never happen. And that could be a good thing. For if it was a perfect world then everything would be like robots doing the same thing. That is how I view this matter. If you think about that then you could say that I am glad I am not liveing in a perfect world.

[Doug]

Originally posted by paramiteabe
If there was a perfect world life as we know it would be boring and not interesting.

I don't understand the idea that in a perfect world we would all be automatons or Vulcans with no emotion, and that the world wouldn't be interesting. I accept that the world's imperfections provide much food for thought -- not to mention humor -- but I think that there are a lot of interesting, stimulating, and gratifying things in the world that don't involve the imperfect aspects such as greed, bigotry, hatred, war, cutthroat competiton, etc.

Haven't you ever had a day when the weather was perfect, you were with the people you enjoyed being with the most, doing the things you like to do, everything went right, you didn't run out of money, nobody got hurt, or sick, or arrested, and at the end of the day you thought "it was a perfect day"?

If so, was it boring?

[pinkgoth2]

Originally posted by Doug
Haven't you ever had a day when the weather was perfect, you were with the people you enjoyed being with the most, doing the things you like to do, everything went right, you didn't run out of money, nobody got hurt, or sick, or arrested, and at the end of the day you thought "it was a perfect day"?

If so, was it boring?

I have never had a perfect day. And I don't want one. I believe in something much like Karma (albeit not in the original religious sense), and in a balance. Thus if I had a perfect day (nevermind the fact I barely have friends, and those I do have I don't go anywhere with and my favorite weather is the blackness of the night ;) ), I would dread the next, ultimately making my day imperfect again.

And I wouldn't want it any other way.

I don't believe perfection would be boring. I still believe perfection would not be noticed by the people who grow up in it. True, the people in the now, in the imperfection, would know the difference, but their children would not. The perfection would be all they'd grow up with and thus it'd be normal for them. They wouldn't know why the society they thrive in is so great, because they've never expirienced anything other than it.
By the way, don't misinterpret this as a negative thing. We've all come a long way since the stone age and the egyptians. Probably if they heard of the society today back then they would have thought it to be paradise/perfection. As we all know, living in it, it is not. And thanks to our realisation of that, we're still well able to be spoken to and not on a permanent high (ooh! perfect world! look! wow! ooo! aaah! wee!...)! *chuckles* Okay, lame example, but I think you get my point.


- TyA

[•[cyrus]•]

Perfect world?,

I cannot Image a perfect world existing but -

Where EvErYoNe has Xavier enjoyment of helping people. where most people like to build houses as a hobby (for free). And where there is no money to barder with because of the evil its caused (bank hiests and stuff). where there is no Drugs on earth. Where there is no evilness/hatred in the world. Where there is everyone with their OwN house instead of apartments and streets. Where free trips to Hawi'i Exist. And so-forth-and-so-on


Mudokon101...

[Doug]

Originally posted by pinkgoth2
We've all come a long way since the stone age and the egyptians.

I don't think we've come a long way at all. Our language is different, our clothes are different, and our toys are more complicated and expensive, but we're still a bunch of barbaric animals looking out for number one. I think the the biggest joke in the world is that humans call themselves "civilized."

I have plenty of shit days to keep the karmic balance with those ever-so-precious "perfect" days, so I'm not worried about karma. In fact, karma owes me a few perfect days, come to think of it. So when someone figures out how to make the world perfect, sign me up.

By the way, the darkness of night is not "weather."

[•[cyrus]•]

That can be a weather when you look at it in another way...

Look at it this way...A dark night is supposed to evil - andwhen you look up you see black. You look around you and nothing is luminated exept when you have a sort of light...


Mudokon101...

[Dequibenzo]

Originally posted by Sydney
I agree with you in regards to life's simple pleasures being what makes it so great, but your lifestyle is hardly what most of the world will ever have a chance to experience. My whole point is that a perfect world is only available to a minority, and as long as that minority is satisfied, they'll sit on their arse with a blind eye to a world stricken with poverty.

That's true, in the present setting, but these circumstances hinge on a very small number of people, comparatively. Remember, in the capitolist world, 90% of the finances are controlled by 5% of the population. Now, I'm not stressing socialism necissarily, but if I can achieve my utopia every friday on an annual income of less than 20,000, below the poverty line here in the staes, then probably so could the super-rich class, and their overflow could go to help those in such bad positions that they can't get out. Which isn't to say the poor should get things just because they're poor. You also have to work for your happiness, ave to be willing to make some sacrifices. So, everybody should just learn to appreciate and enjoy the little things, like the satisfaction of a job well done. If everybody was willing to work as hard as they could, but realized that this is a different quantity for different people, and we all agreed to be honest about how much work we can do and not be lazy... yeah, okay, it's impossible. Oh well, I tried. Ooh, you'll have to excuse me, they're showing Star trek III, and I just remembered there's string cheese in the fridge! Yeeha!

[Melvin:squeeking paramite]

I doubt there's a way that we could get rid of all of the things that are bad, and make it a perfect world. Even if there was someway, it wouldn't end up a perfect world. Every one has a different view of a perfect world, and if you adjusted it to your perfect world, another would be pissed off, because it wasn't their idea of a perfect world, and they would get mad, etc... Then if you made it so that every one had the same idea of a perfect world, conformity would take over... Boring... I just don't think it's possible, even if we had the chance to take away all of the bad things.

Originally posted by Mudokon101
where there is no Drugs on earth.

Uh... You do understand that if this happened, many illnesses would have to go untreated?

Look at it this way...A dark night is supposed to evil - andwhen you look up you see black. You look around you and nothing is luminated exept when you have a sort of light...

Uh, just a second ago you were anti-drug... Now it sounds like you're smoking something very harsh.

[Danny]

Originally posted by paramiteabe
If you think about it. If there was a perfect world life as we know it would be boreing and not interesting. But then again sometimes I wish we lived in a perfect world.

A perfect world may never happen. And that could be a good thing. For if it was a perfect world then everything would be like robots doing the same thing. That is how I view this matter. If you think about that then you could say that I am glad I am not liveing in a perfect world.

If you are glad you're not living in that world, then it's not a Perfect World. Think about it...

Heres my thought, the only reason why we don't have a perfect world is because of the fact that we were put on this world with a free will to live. In other words freedom to take other lands, freedom to do as we please, Free to do just about anything. The result of this freedom is our socity we live in today. It is us humens who choose the paths we follow. God gave us this free will.

What an fool God is then, eh?

I think the nature of Money is one thing that is keeping the world as it is.

Case Study: Some town in Europe somewhere (I forget the name of the place: I read about it in the New Scientist today, but I can't remember what the place is called, and can't find the article on newscientist.com. I'll look again tomorrow once I look up the name of the place again.)

Anyway, this town was in Germany, I think, and the economy of Germany had just crashed. In an effort to solve the town's problems, the Mayor printed his own currency, that was only viable in that town. It had Negative Interest: It reduced in value the longer you possessed it. As a result, trade boomed, as people rushed out to spend the money on material goods that did not decrease in value almost as soon as they bought it. This resulted in a great boom for the city in general: The streets were repaved, unemployment was practically eradicated, and everybody prospered (I'll give you the real results when I find the article, but they were more or less what I've said here).

Then the German economy recovered, and the Government found out about this town printing it's own money. Printing currency was banned, and the proper currency, with its Positive Interest, was imposed upon the city. Unemployment shot up, small businesses failed, and there were riots...

[Dequibenzo]

Originally posted by Danny

Anyway, this town was in Germany, I think, and the economy of Germany had just crashed. In an effort to solve the town's problems, the Mayor printed his own currency, that was only viable in that town. It had Negative Interest: It reduced in value the longer you possessed it. As a result, trade boomed, as people rushed out to spend the money on material goods that did not decrease in value almost as soon as they bought it. This resulted in a great boom for the city in general: The streets were repaved, unemployment was practically eradicated, and everybody prospered (I'll give you the real results when I find the article, but they were more or less what I've said here).

Then the German economy recovered, and the Government found out about this town printing it's own money. Printing currency was banned, and the proper currency, with its Positive Interest, was imposed upon the city. Unemployment shot up, small businesses failed, and there were riots...

Are you saying that this demonstrates a problem with or an advantage to the nature of money? Maybe my history isn't that great, but efforts by Germans to make the world a "better place" have oft been not such a good idea...

[paramiteabe]

What I ment by saying "But then again sometimes I wished we lived in a perfect world." Means that in some cases it wouldent be bad because it could bring an end to all the hatred and war in this world.

That is the only case why I would say that. In any other situations to me, would seem as if life would have no meaning. I just think since our world is imperfect, that the imperfectness keeps us from going crazy. That is just my own opinion.

Just imagine that we were all the same and we had all the same thoughts and same feelings kind of like the Borg from Star Trek. That is my unsettling view of what "a perfect world" might actually be like. You would go nuts because you would feel as if someone is controling you. There would be no meaning in your life. It would be like being a slave. I am glad that we are different and not the same. But I agree on the fact that there can be a perfect world in the sense of everything going piecefully. That is a more logical way to view a perfect world. I was just trying to express what could happen if there was a perfect world in the sense I described it.

[abe22]

I base my thought's on the song "Imagine" by John Lennon. If there was no religion, countries etc. then this greedy world would be much better. And I think there will never ever be a so called "Perfect World."

[Lampion]

Originally posted by Lampion
A perfect world could be achieved if everybody were telepaths, so that we could only say the truth to each other.

Originally posted by Teal
Eh, I can't say that'd be a very perfect world - some people lie so they don't hurt other people. May not be exactly a shining example of perfection, but still... If everyone told the absolute truth to everyone, I can see there being just as many fights going on as if there was the occasional white lie...

You're not getting the big picture, Teal. Of course, if all of us suddenly develop telepathic abilities, the world will become quite a HUGE mess. I had in mind a more natural and gradual transformation...

Imagine a newborn telepath baby, living in a world where everybody is also a telepath. He/she would grow up not only telling the truth, but would develop a extremely high understanding of human nature, so that even his/her thoughts could never cause harm to anybody else.

Pick up any scenario, any situation, and I'll show you how it could be sorted out very easily, if everybody would be telepaths.

[pinkgoth2]

Originally posted by Doug
By the way, the darkness of night is not "weather."

Well, EXCUSE me for not having put it into inverted commas. No d'oh. I know myself it's not weather. Sheesh. *pathetic sticking out of tongue in Doug's direction*

Oh, and yea, we're not civilized. We HAVE come a long way. Society has warped again and again. The whole system of ideals and ideas is superior to how it was then. This does not make the individual human better. I'm an animal, and I know it. Oh. And I'm proud of it, too. *insert animalistic mock-snarl here, drawing lips back and showing teeth* ^_^ *grin* *hoooooowl* Gee, I think I need a pack.


- TyA