EGX 2016: The Evolution Of Oddworld Game Design

[Vlam]

[Varrok]

This is not the best example of evolution in game design.

[Vlam]

Glanville couldn't get past the first level of AO (07:50).

[Varrok]

I beat the first level as a 5 year old.

[DWeedMan]

I beat the first three levels of Abe's Oddysee as a 3/4 year old, any bloody person could do it.

[Connell]

Perhaps it's because I'm quite a big Oddworld fan, but I didn't really feel like there was anything that "in depth" about that talk, considering it was given at a gaming expo for hard core gamers.

Also, with regards to Matt speaking for them, he seems like such a nice guy but he was openly admitting he couldn't complete his company's games; I was doing 100% runthroughs of Oddysee when I was 10 at the latest. Hopefully it was just banter for the audience. If not, Ladies and Gentlemen; this is the man that's developing the next Oddworld game, someone who couldn't get out of Rupture Farms.

I really don't want to sound like a dick, I love what I've seen of Soulstorm so far, and I'm a keen follower of the ARG, but they have to understand what sort of image that puts forward of the company (for the fans at least). I know the average consumer doesn't care, but they were pushing so much about how they care what the fans think. Whilst I liked the sound of the unique individual playthroughs they were talking about for Soulstorm, I haven't felt this pessimistic since N'n'T's release, which isn't how I want to feel. If Matt ends up reading this I don't want him to think I'm just being a prick because I can be.

E: Also that other guy did a good job in the Q&A section. He knew his stuff.

[UnderTheSun]

Also, with regards to Matt speaking for them, he seems like such a nice guy but he was openly admitting he couldn't complete his company's games; I was doing 100% runthroughs of Oddysee when I was 10 at the latest. Hopefully it was just banter for the audience. If not, Ladies and Gentlemen; this is the man that's developing the next Oddworld game, someone who couldn't fucking get out of Rupture Farms.

Doesn't that make incorporating the thoughts of fans (the people who know the ins and outs of the games) all the more important?

(Also, how does the head developer person being unskilled at the franchise mean the game they're working on will automatically suck?)

[Varrok]

Doesn't that make incorporating the thoughts of fans (the people who know the ins and outs of the games) all the more important?

Don't you think *the developers* should know all the ins and outs of their games to begin with? The games should not be pure fanservice, as it kills the creativity and fan feedback should be used as a last resort in case something goes wrong.

(Also, how does the head developer person being unskilled at the franchise mean the game they're working on will automatically suck?)

If the developers aren't skilled gamers (not implying that beating AO RF requires a lot of skill), how do you expect them to nail the difficulty/difficulties right?

[Littleleeroy]

I struggled to sit through five minutes of that, let alone half an hour.
Can someone give me the main points he made, or was the overall speech as boring as it sounded?

[Vlam]

I struggled to sit through five minutes of that, let alone half an hour.
Can someone give me the main points he made, or was the overall speech as boring as it sounded?

Interesting thing: we have the confirmation that the "Quintology" doesn't really matter at this point (32:10).

E: Also that other guy did a good job in the Q&A section. He knew his stuff.

"Peter". Could it be "OWI_Pete"?

[OWI_Pete]

Just wanted to make a couple of points that I think are pertinent here and then I'll keep my nose out of your discussion...

Matt talks about people not being able to finish Oddysee because that's something we hear countless times from hundreds or thousands of fans, every time we talk at broader gaming conventions or even via our social channels. His point was, I think, that so many people love the environments, engage with the characters and want to explore the world but they found it too frustrating and/or difficult so they only got to experience a very small part of it. We'd like to be able to bring those people deeper into the Oddworld family by finding ways that they can enjoy all of our games, in the same way you guys (who had a much greater aptitude for them way back then) did.

I think what Matt was saying is he was under 10 when he played Oddysee and he gave up without completing it (although I think he has played it to conclusion many times since). That was a long time ago and I think under-10 Matt probably had different priorities in his gaming life than he did while making New 'n' Tasty and certainly he does while making Soulstorm.

One of our most important criteria when we're looking for developers to work with is that they have an understanding of our classic games. Frima had many members of staff that were big Oddworld fans and they hired more (like Matt!) as work on Soulstorm begun. We also ask our development partners to play our classic games before they begin work - Oddysee, Exoddus and New 'n' Tasty were all played through by staff at Frima before the project got fully underway - and we're constantly referring back to those games as useful shorthand for concepts we're describing as we make Soulstorm.

FWIW, Matt was largely responsible for what I think is probably one of the best parts of New 'n' Tasty - Alf's Escape. It was certainly the most difficult and complex, right? So don't worry that Matt is also considering how to make Soulstorm more accessible to allow it to be enjoyed by a larger audience - he's actually very much involved in the regular conversations we're having about making it capable of being more difficult to appeal more to you guys and the other hardcore fans we have.

This talk was given to a broader audience than you guys (because, let's be honest, we couldn't fill an auditorium with fans as dedicated and knowledgeable as you guys...) so it was necessarily a little less in-depth than you might have wanted. From what we could gauge, the audience in the room all enjoyed it very much - we hung around talking to many of them afterwards and everyone seemed to really get what we had said and were enthusiastic about what we were doing. Appealing to you guys, with your extra wealth of knowledge on the subject, would probably have meant excluding a lot of the more casual people in that audience.

P.S. yep, it was me that joined Matt on stage for Q&A.

[Vlam]

Thanks, Peter!

I was wondering, if you don't mind my asking, why wasn't Lorne Lanning at the EGX (an important event for OWI)?

FWIW, Matt was largely responsible for what I think is probably one of the best parts of New 'n' Tasty - Alf's Escape.

Interesting. Is he the mastermind behind Alf's Escape?

[OWI_Pete]

Thanks, Peter!

I was wondering, if you don't mind my asking, why wasn't Lorne Lanning at the EGX (an important event for OWI)?

Two reasons:
1) he's currently working every hour on the development of Soulstorm and even if he'd only flown in for the day at EGX, it would take an extra day either side of travel to get him from California to Birmingham.

2) While Lorne is certainly always going to be our most important spokesperson, he can't always be the only one. Having other members of our team out there, speaking for the games and the company means we can be at many more events and speak to many more people. We know that you all want Lorne but sometimes you might have to make do with one of the rest of us

Interesting. Is he the mastermind behind Alf's Escape?

There were a few people involved but I think it's fair to say that the level design was mostly Matt's work in Alf's Escape.

On a side note, just to satisfy my personal curiosity, did you guys like that we did a talk? Would you like to see us talk more at events like this? Obviously everyone wants Lorne as a first choice but are you satisfied with hearing from other team members too?

[Vlam]

Thank you!

On a side note, just to satisfy my personal curiosity, did you guys like that we did a talk? Would you like to see us talk more at events like this? Obviously everyone wants Lorne as a first choice but are you satisfied with hearing from other team members too?

Of course we would like to see you guys more at events like this but, in my humble opinion, you don't talk enough about the actual content of SoulStorm (like the new levels, the flammable brew, etc). The problem is: you are not allowed to say anything about it (at least for the moment).

[Littleleeroy]

I agree with Vlam. Talks are great - if you can talk about the actual content. So perhaps after the game is released, more nitty and gritty talks of detailed elements would be really interesting.

For the moment, perhaps you could (between now and release) tease something at each talk but actually walk us through your thinking with it. It might be hard without giving other stuff away but if you pick something from NNT and talk about how you are going to improve it that could work.
It won't appeal to a broader audience though, so maybe not the best option.

Lorne has that uncanny ability to hook you with what he is saying - I could listen to him for hours. If the talks could get halfway to that skill then I'll love them.

On another point that I just remembered:
I messaged OWI on Facebook ages ago and asked if they are going to film more behind the scenes footage of making the game and they replied that they are looking into it.
I hope you guys are filming lots because there were only a couple behind the scenes videos of the original games being made and if you say, Pete, that Lorne is hard at work, then I think that would make for some great footage.
I would love to watch a video on how hard game development actually is and the strain, emotions, sweat, blood and tears that go into it. One that really tells it as it is.

[Connell]

Thanks for dropping by Pete and addressing some concerns. Hope you know I wasn't just trying to be horrible for the sake of it, I'm mostly nice, honest! I had a feeling it was intended for a broader audience, and they did look like they all enjoyed the talk.

It'd be great to see more talks but like I said before, something more in-depth would really get my motor running, as it were. If there was one further down South I'd even be extremely tempted to attend.

Lorne is a great talker, Matt was good at addressing the audience and stuff and comes accross a humble and nice dude; it was just some of his comments that concerned me, as per my post. And like I said before also, you seem like you know the absolute in's and out's of Oddworld and the history of the franchise which was fantastic and good to listen to.

[Xavier]

Yup, thanks for dropping by Pete. It's nice to have some clear answers directly from OWI once in a while.

I would have loved to attend the EGX to see the presentation live but I saw it too late.

[Michael]

EGX was half hour from where I live and I had a couple friends going. Thought about joining them for a while but eventually passed on grabbing a ticket. Didn't know OWI would be there in some capacity, in hindsight it seems like it would have been an interesting experience

Even if no new footage is screened or discussed, I'm sure it's beneficial to still be involved with talks and presentations, if not least to remind the wider audience that the company is still busy with new content. It keeps Oddworld in the public consciousness!

[kjjcarpenter]

I guess I was right about the Quintology after all.

Matt seems a bit nervous on-stage, but I appreciate a greater diversity from behind-the-scenes, and he'll only get better with time. It's refreshing to have new perspectives.

EDIT: Heh. Thanks for the PM, Vlam.

[Manco]

More talks are always welcome. Thinking back, I’ve never seen a whole lot of discussion from OWI about their game design – it’s always been more about the art and characters, and occasionally about business. More stuff on level design/planning etc would be a great insight.

[Havoc]

FWIW, Matt was largely responsible for what I think is probably one of the best parts of New 'n' Tasty - Alf's Escape.

Was he the guy who designed the puzzle where you had to throw a grenade down two hatches to destroy a chant suppressor. Because if he is, he and I need to have long talk. Preferably with some thick glass between us so no-one gets hurt.

[Nate]

Interesting thing: we have the confirmation that the "Quintology" doesn't really matter at this point (32:10)

I notice the difference between the phrase 'a quintology' that he used and 'the quintology' that everyone else uses.

If it's not the quintology, why even bother using that word? It's just a bunch of games, then. Why even restrict yourself to five games if they're all going to be about Abe? Why not keep making games starring him indefinitely?

[Nepsotic]

I agree with Nate, that bit didn't really make sense to me.

Nevertheless I'm super excited about where they're heading with SoulStorm. My only worry is that it'll be on too grand a scale. Oddworld always had a close and personal feel to it but if it becomes too epic that will be lost completely.

[Vlam]

Kjjcarpenter was right about the Quintology:

With the new direction of Soulstorm rewriting the original Exoddus, it's safe to assume we've branched into a new universe of Oddworld storytelling. I'd wager Munch's Oddysee will not be encorporated into this new canon, possibly paving the way for a reworked version, in the same vein as Soulstorm. It also appears that Soulstorm is not being advertised as a bonus game; rather, it is being presented as a "true sequel" to New 'n' Tasty, and a necessary continuation of the new Oddworld storyline.

My question, therefore, is concerning the status of the Quintology. Is the original outline/script relevant anymore? We all know the original plan, which was inevitably derailed due to a number of reasons. To my recollection though, there has been no mention of the Quintology since Oddworld's resurrection; no promise to see the story through to its intended finale; no word on the future of Abe's journey.

Thoughts? Are New 'n' Tasty and Soulstorm a part of the five-act Quintology, or should we devise a new designation when referring to "the reboot universe"? The term Quintology just seems far too archaic and inaccurate to use anymore

http://www.oddworldforums.net/showthread.php?t=22244

By the way, Peter said this in April:

It's my understanding (some of you guys are probably much more in touch with the history than I am!) that Exoddus was not a part of the vision for the original "quintology". It was a sequel to Abe's Oddysee because that game did very well and everyone wanted a sequel.

So, AO and MO were the only two quintology games released, right?

I can tell you a few things though, without being able to confirm or deny anything (because I honestly don't know):
1. We'll make the games that we see the most demand for, whether that's a ground-up remake, a complete reworking, a previously mentioned title or a completely new game that has never been discussed. Oddworld's plans are largely informed by you guys and the wider community.
2. Nothing is "dead" and everything is on the table but we have to see that it's viable because we all quite like our jobs and want to stay in them, making great games, for a very long time!
3. Lorne has so many ideas and speaks with such excitement about potential projects on Oddworld that I honestly have to believe there's an awful lot more to come.
4. If you want something, tell us what it is. We can only do so much at a time, obviously, but if we've got a vocal community with lots and lots of people all saying "we want you to make this game" then we'd be silly to ignore that, wouldn't we?.

[Havoc]

I guess the question then becomes what do we all want after Soulstorm?

I really hope for Munch's Oddysee the way it was intended and just pick up the story from there.

[Nate]

I guess the question then becomes what do we all want after Soulstorm?

I really hope for Munch's Oddysee the way it was intended and just pick up the story from there.

This. Maybe. I'm not sure that I want 100% the original design (which was as much of a world sim as a game), but I want the original plot and good gameplay.

[Gunnr]

Just veiwed the whole vid and jotted down some notes that stuck out to me. Sry if it's a bit sloppy. These are not in order:

Notes on EGX 2016

⦁SS set to come out the end of next year(end of 2017*)

⦁The game is under the developement stage and has nothing or not much to show as far as gameplay/screenshots, ect. They are simply not there yet.

⦁There WILL be some reveals of art in the near future. They have been building up renders, WIP vids and concept art (even a mention of a gag reel) and plan on sharing ion thier social medias soon. =) ok

⦁Have yet to announce platform for Soulstorm. Owi are fully aware of the platforms available to them but cannot be further discussed

⦁Wants to expand on the increase of range of options to players in SS as they did from AO to Nnt

⦁SS is still intended to be "what Exoddus SHOULD have been". It will be the sequel to Ao and NnT. SS Will be more emergent

⦁(SS)Wants to give players the tools to forge thier own way through the game to find own solutions to problems. OWI are designing new systems and mechanics to allow that sort of stuff. Things like physics base structres and more chances for solving problems on the fly, more free changing enviornments*(enviorments wont be so static) I guess as enjpyable to veiw as it is enjoyable to play(being great for live streamers/ letsplays seems to be the aim)

⦁Talks of how Owi addressed concerns w/ Nnt such as controls, proformance and even the much frowned upon smoke in RF and Bloom. Apparently with shadows one could see Abe silohoutted on a bright background breaking the illusion of being hidden at certain camera angels. They changed it to smoke as is still fits the factory feel and still creates feel of Abe being hidden. Features like controls and bloom can be addjusted to the individual players liking. Difficulty can be set from old school mode for original one hit kill to Abe having "lives"( the birds overhead thing), one could also lower the bloom ( doing this also helps with the games proformance). Lastly, addressing the call outs to other indies in RF, many disliking it saying its breaking the fourth wall and just feels out of place/out of ingame universe. Defense is one of a deeply held belief of the little guys helping each other out. A prominent theme in the game.

⦁It seems owi intends to make many more games phathomed by Mr. Lorne Lanning and has many ideas, beyond than just the "quintology" of games( here meaning just 5 games). More games for us owi fans and owi getting to keep their jobs for a good while. From what i gather. I don't see this as a bad thing nessesarily





It was very late when i veiwed this and jotted down my notes. It's currently 2am. I'll clean it near noon. Hopefully it doesn't look too bad, if it does. Oops.

Also huge thanks to Peter for popping up in this thread, you were great
honestly kudos to the speaker as well.

[Phylum]

Honestly MO as it was originally planned is still sounds like a really ambitious game by today's standards. I never saw it as a world builder, as much as a world that built itself around your actions? Like they had their plans for the RTS-like game using the same tech. But in MO it sounded more like those systems would play themselves based on what you did.

Or maybe that was just my misunderstanding.

[Connell]

I find it funny how they're unwilling to discuss platforms after that news blog on the official website saying they're in possession of PS4 PRO tech and comments from Lorne saying they're incorporating it into the game. But I guess that was a given anyway.

[V_O_T]

PS4 pro isn't the VR stuff is it? Sorry, I'm on holiday and I haven't been keeping up with news.
But while I'm on, any one else hate it when new emerging games feel some what forced into these gimmicks? One example off the top of my head is a game called Thumper. It's a rhythm heaven/hell game and they threw VR into it :/. It doesn't feel right for it to be in that sort of game but because it got approved to be on the PSN, I feel like Sony asked them to tack it on. also apologies for going a little off topic. I'd just hate to have soulstorm have VR sections. Didn't NnT have Wiiu only sections? Or am I imagining that?