Is the Quintology dead?

[kjjcarpenter]

With the new direction of Soulstorm rewriting the original Exoddus, it's safe to assume we've branched into a new universe of Oddworld storytelling. I'd wager Munch's Oddysee will not be encorporated into this new canon, possibly paving the way for a reworked version, in the same vein as Soulstorm. It also appears that Soulstorm is not being advertised as a bonus game; rather, it is being presented as a "true sequel" to New 'n' Tasty, and a necessary continuation of the new Oddworld storyline.

My question, therefore, is concerning the status of the Quintology. Is the original outline/script relevant anymore? We all know the original plan, which was inevitably derailed due to a number of reasons. To my recollection though, there has been no mention of the Quintology since Oddworld's resurrection; no promise to see the story through to its intended finale; no word on the future of Abe's journey.

Thoughts? Are New 'n' Tasty and Soulstorm a part of the five-act Quintology, or should we devise a new designation when referring to "the reboot universe"? The term Quintology just seems far too archaic and inaccurate to use anymore.

[FennecFyre]

While it definitely feels like Oddworld has gone through a reboot, I still think (and hope) that we'll eventually have new Quintology titles. Squeek's Oddysee is still on the table as far as I know. They're remaking their old titles to bring them to a modern audience and get enough money to start working on new original titles.

I do wonder if NnT is supposed to be considered part of the big five, though, or if that honor still belongs to the original AO.

[JayDee]

I don't feel as though the entire Quintology is "dead" so much as it is "hibernating." Oddworld Inhabitants had been away from video games production for what would equate to a lifetime in the industry, only putting out one new game right at the end of the PS3/Xbox360's life cycle; that being New N' Tasty. That remake was a way of OWI to generate the revenue they needed in order to find their feet once more. We've somewhat seen the success of this with the announcement of Soulstorm and the higher production quality that they're aiming for over NnT.

In terms of which story counts towards the Quintoloy AO or NnT, I don't feel as though it matters considering nothing of great importance changed. Sure Rupturefarms looked a bit different and Abe saved 3 times as many Mudokons, but we're also talking about a series where it's possible to kill all of the Mudokons, recieve an ending; and then have the number of Mudokons you saved be retconned in the sequel. Soulstorm may end up shaking this however given it's getting a near total rewrite, but only time will tell.

Overall I'm optimistic for the Quintology. Regardless of if we have to sit through a couple years of remakes to fund it, I feel as though what we will end up recieving would more closely replicate Lorne's vision and far surpass the quality of what was possible ten years ago.

[kjjcarpenter]

I do wonder if NnT is supposed to be considered part of the big five.

See, I don't think there are any plans for a "big five" anymore, hence my issue with the Quintology—at least in its original incarnation—being dead. Soulstorm is no longer a bonus game from what I can deduce, it is merely the second part of the story, an honorific that was once held by Munch.

The concept of the Quintology was very clear and concise: Five core games, with intermittent bonus games, Ã* la Exoddus. Granted, the bonus games were not originally planned, and came about via anomalous and serendipitous means, but they fit the build for the story Lorne was trying to tell.

Soulstorm, on the other hand, seems to be not only a rewrite of Exoddus, but an opportunity to tread new soil and tell a different, somewhat familiar story.

I don't feel as though the entire Quintology is "dead" so much as it is "hibernating."

I beg to differ. I see this as, for lack of a better term, "Quintology, Mark II". This is a chance to start again, to tell a simpler, more refined story. I can't help but feel—this time around—we're going to see less quasi-revolutionary risks, and a far more streamlined, character-centric story, with Abe as the lynchpin.

Ergo, we have:

The Quintology [Abandoned]:

• Abe's Oddysee
• Abe's Exoddus
• Munch's Oddysee
• Munch's Exoddus [Unreleased]
• Squeek's Oddysee [Unreleased]

The Quintology, Mark II:

• New 'n' Tasty
• Soulstorm
• Abe's Happy Third Adventure, sans Munch [Unreleased]
• Abe's Amazing Fourth Adventure, featuring Squeek [Unreleased]

(I haven't included Stranger's Wrath in there because I never saw it as a part of the Quintology.)

Two separate stories; two separate universes.

[OWI_Pete]

It's my understanding (some of you guys are probably much more in touch with the history than I am!) that Exoddus was not a part of the vision for the original "quintology". It was a sequel to Abe's Oddysee because that game did very well and everyone wanted a sequel.

So, AO and MO were the only two quintology games released, right?

I can tell you a few things though, without being able to confirm or deny anything (because I honestly don't know):
1. We'll make the games that we see the most demand for, whether that's a ground-up remake, a complete reworking, a previously mentioned title or a completely new game that has never been discussed. Oddworld's plans are largely informed by you guys and the wider community.
2. Nothing is "dead" and everything is on the table but we have to see that it's viable because we all quite like our jobs and want to stay in them, making great games, for a very long time!
3. Lorne has so many ideas and speaks with such excitement about potential projects on Oddworld that I honestly have to believe there's an awful lot more to come.
4. If you want something, tell us what it is. We can only do so much at a time, obviously, but if we've got a vocal community with lots and lots of people all saying "we want you to make this game" then we'd be silly to ignore that, wouldn't we?

[HOMINIX]

I can't speak for everyone of course, but I would bet most of us would really just like to see Lorne's Quintology story unfold - the gameplay style is probably less important to hardcore oddworld fans than seeing the story finished. We've all had Squeek in our head for a long time, and really overall there's such a loose end after Munch's Oddysee.

I truly believe that this is a franchise that can only genuinely be carried by Lanning, and he isn't immortal. I just want to see the journey to Nolybab or whatever he has planned, then any additional oddworld game would be icing on the cake. I just shudder to think of the Quintology to remain only 2/5 done.

[Varrok]

It's my understanding (some of you guys are probably much more in touch with the history than I am!) that Exoddus was not a part of the vision for the original "quintology". It was a sequel to Abe's Oddysee because that game did very well and everyone wanted a sequel.

So, AO and MO were the only two quintology games released, right?

No, no, you're absolutely right. The only games from quintology being released were Abe's Oddysee and Munch's Oddysee. Others were "bonus games".

If you want something, tell us what it is. We can only do so much at a time, obviously, but if we've got a vocal community with lots and lots of people all saying "we want you to make this game" then we'd be silly to ignore that, wouldn't we?

Well, I'd be *very* glad if Soulstorm had smooth animations (NnT hasn't, not counting pre-alphas footage) and a reliable grid/step system, without the constant character realigning.... you know... characters taking small steps "just to reach that lever". This adds nothing to the gameplay, as the puzzles are based around the grid system already, and only makes it more frustrating/annoying.

Thank you for the time spent on listening to us. We can be jerks sometimes! (Not on purpose!)

[Vlam]

OWI_Pete, I want Lanning interviewed by Nate.

[kjjcarpenter]

It's my understanding (some of you guys are probably much more in touch with the history than I am!) that Exoddus was not a part of the vision for the original "quintology". It was a sequel to Abe's Oddysee because that game did very well and everyone wanted a sequel.

So, AO and MO were the only two quintology games released, right?

I can tell you a few things though, without being able to confirm or deny anything (because I honestly don't know):
1. We'll make the games that we see the most demand for, whether that's a ground-up remake, a complete reworking, a previously mentioned title or a completely new game that has never been discussed. Oddworld's plans are largely informed by you guys and the wider community.
2. Nothing is "dead" and everything is on the table but we have to see that it's viable because we all quite like our jobs and want to stay in them, making great games, for a very long time!
3. Lorne has so many ideas and speaks with such excitement about potential projects on Oddworld that I honestly have to believe there's an awful lot more to come.
4. If you want something, tell us what it is. We can only do so much at a time, obviously, but if we've got a vocal community with lots and lots of people all saying "we want you to make this game" then we'd be silly to ignore that, wouldn't we?

Thanks very much for responding! It's great to hear from you guys every now and then.

As Hominix said, there's obviously a very strong desire to see some version of the original Quintology come to fruition, i.e., the original narrative focusing on Abe's insurrection into the Industrialist world.

I'm very curious to see where the story carries on immediately from Soulstorm, however. Can you provide any information about whether Munch's Oddysee will be reworked in some form, or if a future sequel will either skip over Munch/ignore the events of the game? I understand if I'm too preemptive and it's too early to talk about ephemeral sequels, but I'd love to have some insight into what is planned.

We're all chanting (heh, pun) for Soulstorm, of course. It's the logical next step in Oddworld's resurrection, but I foresee some polarising opinions about future instalments thereafter. Lorne has spoken very passionately about Fangus—something I'd love to see—but I feel the general audience would respond better to another Abe game that progresses the core narrative—something many of us have been waiting almost 15 years to see. Our collective voice has been rather consistent and unanimous up until now, though I fear that will change once Soulstorm is in our hands; when the future course becomes far more transparent. I suppose the crux of this point is simple: Do you guys have some kind of roadmap to see Abe through to his tragic finale, or are future instalments on a play-by-numbers (popularity) schema? Obviously the latter is a better business model, especially for a small company, but I'd like to know if there is an in-house timeline as well.

Personally, if I might be a little selfish right now, I'd like to see anything that progresses the story. Oddworld is a rarity for me—I don't really play video games, I'm far more of a literary person, but I'm invested to the story, the characters, and the world. It literally changed my life; showed me there was another way to live—a better way—and game me the confidence to walk my own path. So I want to follow Abe et al into the deep; I want to see Molluck's harrowing trial; I want to delve into the decadent core of Nolybab; I want to see where all these twisting, corrupted roads coalesce; and, most importantly, I want to see this story come to the conclusion it honestly deserves.

Kind of a lot to ask, but you did open the door, haha. Once again, thanks for taking the come to respond, and keep polishing that little gem of yours. It's going to shine.

[OWI_Pete]

I haven't heard any plans concerning Munch or future instalments in his story. That's not to say there aren't ideas but everyone is focussed on Soulstorm right now, and we will be right up until its launch.
As for the progression of Abe's story, I don't have any insider info on that, other than to say we love Abe too, and we're well aware that he's our most loved character so, to me at least, it makes sense that he would be a logical focal point for future games. Let's see how Soulstorm's story finishes up though - remembering that there's a lot of rewriting going on for that - and then we'll see what makes sense for subsequent games.

@HOMINIX - I'll make sure nobody forgets about Squeek when we're discussing ideas for the future

@Varrok - some of that lateral movement to "latch on" is probably necessary to compensate for Abe's more analogue motion in NNT (I assume) but I can promise you that there are some very talented people at Frima and I've seen some of their animation work already, it's looking very smooth and natural.

@Vlam - More fan interaction is something we're going to try to get Lorne involved with throughout Soulstorm development, when we can tear him away from everything else he's got on his plate. Everyone is incredibly busy and we have to make the most of what time we have to schedule for interviews but some kind of interview or Q&A with all you guys from OWF would be really cool to see. Maybe we can sort something down the line.

[Varrok]

@Varrok - some of that lateral movement to "latch on" is probably necessary to compensate for Abe's more analogue motion in NNT (I assume)

Yeah, that's the thing: The game is not well suited for analogue motion. Both Abe's Oddysee and Abe's Exoddus are using a strict movement system, and that allowed the devs to make puzzles that fit it perfectly. In a way that eg. 2 steps always give Abe enough boost to do a run-jump and the run jump is always 4 steps long (so you can jump over three mines in a row, when normal jump allowed you to jump over just two).

but I can promise you that there are some very talented people at Frima and I've seen some of their animation work already, it's looking very smooth and natural.

That's great to hear!

Although, this was also the case with NnT. As seen on the pre-alpha footage here, the NnT animations used to look smooth too. The programmers changed the speed of those, based on the testers' input, that the controls felt sluggish (I do think they look slower than they did in AO). Still, the animations themselves weren't made with such fast speed in mind and that's why NnT looks like it does now (not fluid at all)

[Manco]

Yeah, that's the thing: The game is not well suited for analogue motion.

I can’t say it’s ever been a problem.

[Varrok]

Well, I can.

I don't want to argue whose point is more right.

[Holy Sock]

I remember Abe feeling a bit stiff once I turned the "run button" on but I don't think I had any serious problems because of the lack of a grid system. Mine hopping seems like something that translated a bit weirdly, though

Honestyly, though, there's an opportunity with SoulStorm to adhere less to the grid structure of Exoddus than NnT had to with AO. So I'm all for developing the sidescrolling element rather than taking a step back. As long as it's well thought out.

[FennecFyre]

I can't say much here that hasn't already been said, but thanks for chiming in, Pete! My personal hope is that we get the core Quintology and the big story that that set of games wants to tell, as well as more spin-offs that expand on the world like AE did, and separate stories set outside the big five like SW (I just really really want SW2 okay). While the game mechanics in Oddworld games are great, I've always really enjoyed the amount of lore and worldbuilding the setting has to offer.

[Nate]

Going back to the original topic:

There never was only one version of the Quintology. Even before NnT was announced, the story as told through games was going to be completely different from how it was going to be told through the films. The new remakes just mean that there's a third version of the canon.

Also, suggesting that Soulstorm may now be the second game in the Quintology is silly. The Quintology was never about arbitratily putting out five games. It's about a story arc that covers five games that each feature a different hero. The character of Abe was only a fifth of that story - counting Soulstorm as another fifth would mean something else would have to be left out.

[kjjcarpenter]

Also, suggesting that Soulstorm may now be the second game in the Quintology is silly. The character of Abe was only a fifth of that story - counting Soulstorm as another fifth would mean something else would have to be left out.

Not another fifth, merely the second part of the story. My argument is that there probably isn't a story with five parts anymore, hence my opinion concerning the archaic term "Quintology" (or "Penology" if you want to get technical). With Soulstorm being rewritten to be more relevant, there doesn't need to be a strict adherence to the five-part plan and five heroes. Nothing has to be let out, per se, it just has to be reworked into a more streamlined, character-centric narrative (probably focusing heavily on Abe).

Consider the Quintology like a mosaic. Each instalment would have represented a new tile in the mosaic. The core five games of the Quintology revealed the salient image, and the bonus games fleshed out some of the finer detail, though without them, the salient image would not be tarnished. The bonus games merely offered you a larger view of the world and some juicy scenery to chew on.

That original mosaic, however, was abandoned with Munch's Oddysee. With New 'n' Tasty, Oddworld Inhabitants have started creating a new mosaic, except this time, Exoddus/Soulstorm is a tile that belongs to the salient image. It is not an outlier anymore; it is a part of the core experience, suggesting the final picture has changed.

Okay, let me rephrase the question, because I suppose the heart of all of this is: Do you believe Soulstorm is a bonus game, or the bona fide second entry in the new story?

[Fischkopf]

Well, I'd be *very* glad if Soulstorm had smooth animations (NnT hasn't, not counting pre-alphas footage) and a reliable grid/step system, without the constant character realigning.... you know... characters taking small steps "just to reach that lever". This adds nothing to the gameplay, as the puzzles are based around the grid system already, and only makes it more frustrating/annoying.

+1 Grid based movement (and smooth animations)

And I wish there was an option to simply switch the controls of Abe to the d-pad instead of the rather imprecise analog sticks.

[Varrok]

I haven't thought of that, since I played NnT with a keyboard, but yes, I agree.

The full gamepad key rebinding options should do the trick. It's a necessity in modern games, and I'm glad NnT eventually got that in an update. Especially that it's in Unity, and Unity does a piss-poor job allowing me to play with my 3rd-party gamepad (with the x360ce app, allowing me to disguise it as an X360 pad)

[JayDee]

Okay, let me rephrase the question, because I suppose the heart of all of this is: Do you believe Soulstorm is a bonus game, or the bona fide second entry in the new story?

Soulstorm is to New n' Tasty what Abe's Exoddus was to Abe's Oddysee, regardless of any changes to the story.

[kjjcarpenter]

Soulstorm is to New n' Tasty what Abe's Exoddus was to Abe's Oddysee, regardless of any changes to the story.

An exact correlation would imply an exact replication. Soulstorm is being rewritten as something different; something darker; something grander.

[JayDee]

An exact correlation would imply an exact replication. Soulstorm is being rewritten as something different; something darker; something grander.

Like I said: regardless of any changes to the story, Soulstorm is to New n Tasty what Abe's Exoddus was to Abe's Oddysee.

[kjjcarpenter]

Like I said: regardless of any changes to the story, Soulstorm is to New n Tasty what Abe's Exoddus was to Abe's Oddysee.

Ergo, you believe Soulstorm is merely a bonus game? Yes or no?

[JayDee]

We've had no confirmation of the game containing any other Quintology hero besides Abe, so I see it as just a bonus game. Though that doesn't make it any less important to the story of the Quintology or to Abe's journey.

[kjjcarpenter]

We've had no confirmation of the game containing any other Quintology hero besides Abe, so I see it as just a bonus game. Though that doesn't make it any less important to the story of the Quintology or to Abe's journey.

Weaving back into my original argument: I don't believe there is a Quintology anymore, not in the sense of "a new protagonist for every core entry"; not in the sense of a five-arc story. Hence why this won't be a bonus game, and if the narrative doesn't reflect this, I will finally change my avatar.

[Wil]

The Oddworld Quintology is still a five-part story, starting with Abe's part first, continuing with Munch's part second, then Squeek's part third, et cetera.

This is true regardless of how many other Oddworld stories are told, the order they come out, and of how much weight you feel each one has.

[kjjcarpenter]

The Oddworld Quintology is still a five-part story, starting with Abe's part first, continuing with Munch's part second, then Squeek's part third, et cetera.

This is true regardless of how many other Oddworld stories are told, the order they come out, and of how much weight you feel each one has.

Are you involved with the production of Soulstorm, Wil?

[Wil]

I am not, but the production of SoulStorm doesn't change what the Quintology is.

[kjjcarpenter]

I am not, but the production of SoulStorm doesn't change what the Quintology is.

I beg to differ, but we shall see. There is always room for change; the very nature of Soulstorm is indicative of this.

[JayDee]

The very nature of Soulstorm is currently a press release and a couple interviews with Lorne, so I'm going to stick with the Quintology still being the five hero Quintology, no matter how much you want a story solely focused on Abe.