Twice ze Flavour - Logo design -

JennyGenesis · #91 07-30-2014, 04:45 PM

I don't think it was intentionally made for that, I think it was a beverage that was made to make a profit, but possibly realised how addictive it was and probably decided to use it to capture slaves to produce more. Being that bones are an important ingredient, it's important to remember that the product still needs to be marketed, and the xtra bone sticker was probably purely just a marketing thing, and lets be fair, non of the mudokons noticed it, it was only Abe.

HOMINIX · #92 07-30-2014, 08:03 PM

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Lets be fair, non of the mudokons noticed it, it was only Abe.

Yeeeeah, that's some Slig-level stupid right there.

I just kind of thought of it as being similar to the opium wars.

AvengingGibbons · #93 07-31-2014, 12:53 AM

It doesn't specify mudokon bones. Maybe in Oddworld, brew is typically made from bones of creatures. But then, why does Abe see the X-tra bones label and says 'Brew is made from our bones!' Why would he assume theyre mudokon bones? Is he just putting 2 and 2 together?

Job McYossie · #94 07-31-2014, 01:05 AM

It's because they are in a mine that happens to be where the dead are buried, it'd be pretty clear who's bones they are.

JennyGenesis · #95 07-31-2014, 01:53 AM

In the Intro Abe says "This is Necrum, long ago, the mudokons brought their dead here, that was before the glukkons started stealing our bones" Plus the fact that Abe is visited by the spirits of the bones!

Or if you wanted another hint, remember the FMV where we first see the Tear Extractor? Abe says "First our meat, then our bones, now our tears!"

AvengingGibbons · #96 07-31-2014, 02:02 AM

Yeah, it's just that Abe isnt that bright, so just wondered how he figured it out really, even if it is that obvious.

JennyGenesis · #97 07-31-2014, 02:14 AM

He didn't did he, the spirits told him that the glukkons are digging up the bones, so he goes to investigate, but when he sees the label on the bottle, he then realised just why the bones were being mined.

HOMINIX · #98 07-31-2014, 06:39 AM

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He didn't did he, the spirits told him that the glukkons are digging up the bones, so he goes to investigate, but when he sees the label on the bottle, he then realised just why the bones were being mined.

This makes the most sense. The other Muds not caring about or realizing the ingredients could also act as a parallel to consumers eating and drinking products without ever bothering to check what's in them. That seems like a very OWI-esque message.

But it also just serves the purpose of the plot

JennyGenesis · #99 07-31-2014, 01:07 PM

The Mudokons were thirsty, and wanted a drink, saw their opportunity and took it, where as Abe was a bit logical and said that it's made by Glukkons, it's probably bad for you, we see Abe advance, at the beginning of AO, he tells us that he loves the products that Rupturefarms produces, but then of course realises that the cost of producing the products is that the creatures and being run down to the point that they are endangered or in the case of the Meech's, extinct. So by the time he sees the vending machine, he is probably more skeptical. In the case of the Meech's, I think their extinction probably passed over his head, but I think that learning that Scrabs and Paramites were on the way to extinction after escaping the factory probably put the whole situation in perspective, and he does of course learn that Scrabs and Paramites were once worshiped by the natives so their extinction would also be the destruction of the Mudokon heritage. I believe it also contributes to the hostility that Abe is faced with from these creatures, since now they have become totally hostile to other species to protect themselves from extinction.

If Lorne read this I think he would jizz at this analyzation.

HOMINIX · #**100** 07-31-2014, 01:33 PM

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The Mudokons were thirsty, and wanted a drink, saw their opportunity and took it, where as Abe was a bit logical and said that it's made by Glukkons, it's probably bad for you, we see Abe advance, at the beginning of AO, he tells us that he loves the products that Rupturefarms produces, but then of course realises that the cost of producing the products is that the creatures and being run down to the point that they are endangered or in the case of the Meech's, extinct. So by the time he sees the vending machine, he is probably more skeptical

Okay, that's very true. Not so much a case of stupidity, but a case of ignorance and stubbornness.

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I believe it also contributes to the hostility that Abe is faced with from these creatures, since now they have become totally hostile to other species to protect themselves from extinction.

I do think they've become more prone to aggression after being hunted and relocated as I'm sure many Scrabs and Paramites were. But I don't think wild Scrabs were ever kind or gentle to their Mudokon protectors. The fact that they had wrights of passage based on outrunning the Scabs/Paramites is evidence of that.

I think that the Mudanchee respected and admired the Scrabs for their physical power, beauty and grace, along with their almost sportsman-like duels. I think the Mudomo respected and admired the Paramites because of their craftsmanship, their social tendencies and their power in great numbers.

I never thought that they worshiped these creatures because they were good companions or were gentle to the Mudokons. I believe it was because they revered their raw strength and abilities.

JennyGenesis · #**101** 07-31-2014, 01:44 PM

Or maybe like real life they worshipped them because they were fucking stupid?

Ok, so strangely enough, I don't feel like that about the Mudokons, maybe because it's all a fictional story, but I find it fascinating that they worshipped Scrabs and Paramites, why did they worship them?

My theory is that maybe they offered protection? Think about real life, religious people believe that their god (whoevber they worship) can provide them with protection, Scrabs and Paramites are both capable of killing, and maybe provided a defence against outside threats, which may have perhaps ultimately failed, as Rupturefarms killed the creatures and they were not able to reproduce at a sustainable rate, the natives defences were whittled down and ultimately the creatures took it upon themselves to defend their territory fiercely, so where did the Mudokons that worshipped these creatures end up?

Captured and forced into slavery.

So why were they not good companions? Remember the good ending of AO, there are Scrabs and Paramites stood still on the podium!

HOMINIX · #**102** 07-31-2014, 02:03 PM

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Or maybe like real life they worshipped them because they were fucking stupid?

I'm going to do my best to not get overly mad at you right now. Who exactly was fucking stupid? And why are they any more stupid for worshiping animals than worshiping an invisible force in the sky?

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My theory is that maybe they offered protection? Think about real life, religious people believe that their god (whoevber they worship) can provide them with protection

Again, I find it more than a little strange that you're trying to equate a monotheistic religion to polytheistic indigenous religions. Why not compare them to real world animistic religions instead of a set of monotheistic religious scriptures that have been tweaked and changed for nearly two thousand years?

Mudokons are a shamanistic race that believe in souls, much like many other animistic cultures, and I think it's a safe bet that they believe the creatures of Mudos have souls as well.

Seeing as one of the biggest themes in Oddworld is a loss of cultural identity, it would make sense that these beliefs are very old, and out-date the enslavement of Mudokons. Industrialism is killing the beliefs of old. The industrialism isn't giving rise to these beliefs.

JennyGenesis · #**103** 07-31-2014, 03:10 PM

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I'm going to do my best to not get overly mad at you right now. Who exactly was fucking stupid? And why are they any more stupid for worshiping animals than worshiping an invisible force in the sky?

It was a joke and I even stated that in the next paragraph.

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Again, I find it more than a little strange that you're trying to equate a monotheistic religion to polytheistic indigenous religions. Why not compare them to real world animistic religions instead of a set of monotheistic religious scriptures that have been tweaked and changed for nearly two thousand years?

Mudokons are a shamanistic race that believe in souls, much like many other animistic cultures, and I think it's a safe bet that they believe the creatures of Mudos have souls as well.

Seeing as one of the biggest themes in Oddworld is a loss of cultural identity, it would make sense that these beliefs are very old, and out-date the enslavement of Mudokons. Industrialism is killing the beliefs of old. The industrialism isn't giving rise to these beliefs.

In a way I supposed I compared to religions in real life, but I was just trying to search for a reason as to why the creatures were worshipped, however I don't think me speaking about religion was a bad thing, the story of AO is perhaps a really extreme interpretation of our own lives, and a surreal narration upon capitalism and industrialism. Lorne clearly had inspiration from real life, of course in real life we have capitalism, which can be seen as survival of the fittest where those who work hard get a lot out of life where as those who don't stay at the bottom of the chain, but as we know, some people are stuck at the bottom due to unfortunate circumstances or not being given the right opportunities, and I can see how Oddworld interprets this as the creatures and grounded up and mudokons are forced into slavery for nothing but profit for those at the top. So I don't see why there wouldn't be some inspiration from religion thrown in there somewhere, but still I find it fascinating that they were worshipped given the threat they pose in the game. When we learn that they were worshipped, why was this done? Was it to show how sacred Scrabs and Paramites are, to give us an insight into life before the mass industrial takeover? Or to in a sense, put a religion in there somewhere, but make it seem more logical as the creatures being worshipped are things that we see in the flesh and we know exist.

Or is there some invisible force in Oddworld that we don't know of that carved out Abe's fate, or was it just all coincidence that he stumbled onto the meeting about the Mudokon pops?

HOMINIX · #**104** 07-31-2014, 04:07 PM

My apologies for the misunderstanding, I just can't stand the notion of one religion being any more valid than another.

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In a way I supposed I compared to religions in real life

I don't understand what you mean, though. Animistic religions do exist in real life.

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however I don't think me speaking about religion was a bad thing

It isn't a bad thing, but it's hard to compare a monotheistic religion to a religion that holds all animals as sacred.

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but still I find it fascinating that they were worshipped given the threat they pose in the game. When we learn that they were worshipped, why was this done?

I'm sure countless Muds in the past have been killed by the very Scrabs and Paramites they revere, but native Muds didn't hold themselves higher than Scrabs and Paramites. They respected their power and their majesty.

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To give us an insight into life before the mass industrial takeover?

Yes. Big Face relays to Abe that "Paramites and Scrabs had been sacred once, but that was before Rupture Farms turned them into lunch". Like I was saying, one of the biggest themes in Oddworld is a loss of cultural identity. The only reason that Mudokon culture isn't completely dead already is that there are enough native Muds left to carry on those traditions, and to keep that culture alive.

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Or is there some invisible force in Oddworld that we don't know of that carved out Abe's fate, or was it just all coincidence that he stumbled onto the meeting about the Mudokon pops?

The concept of destiny is definitely an aspect of the overall story as well. Lanning talked about the original Abe's Moon cutscene beginning with a meteor shower barraging the moon and creating the Mudokon paw shape, suggesting there is a bigger force at work.

JennyGenesis · #**105** 08-01-2014, 12:05 AM

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My apologies for the misunderstanding, I just can't stand the notion of one religion being any more valid than another.

I never said it was, I'm an atheist.

STM · #**106** 08-01-2014, 01:52 AM

Mudokons may have been animist.

Also in response to all the logo chat. P.110 of the art book has plenty of ideas. :P Just swap out Soulstorm Brew for 'Twice ze Flavour'...extra bone.

HOMINIX · #**107** 08-01-2014, 06:00 AM

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I never said it was, I'm an atheist.

That was my misunderstanding. The way I read it sounded like you were calling them stupid for worshiping animals, but that it would be reasonable if they shared more common ground with Islam/Christianity/Judaism.

My mistake! Again, sorry for jumping on you like that, but I'm very opinionated on that subject :P

Also, I'm getting my new tablet in the mail, so I'll probably be making quite a few new logos when it arrives!

Havoc · #**108** 08-04-2014, 01:58 PM

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It doesn't specify mudokon bones. Maybe in Oddworld, brew is typically made from bones of creatures.

Phleg at his press conference says 'first Rupture Farms, now Necrum Mines! There's ain't no bones anywhere!'

That could mean that pretty much any kind of bone could be used as an ingredient and that Necrum was simply one of many sources for bones in general (Rupture Farms would have been the source of animal bones from Scrabs and Paramites).

JennyGenesis · #**109** 08-05-2014, 01:00 AM

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Phleg at his press conference says 'first Rupture Farms, now Necrum Mines! There's ain't no bones anywhere!'

I thought that was simply him worrying that Bonewerkz would be destroyed, never thought of it referring to bones.

NOGARD67 · #**110** 04-20-2015, 01:09 PM

A big part of the logo is the work of Matilda Hansson, thanks to her

Paul · #**111** 04-20-2015, 01:40 PM

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I could imagine seeing that as a billboard in an Oddworld game somewhere, like the Splinterz billboard in nnt.

Win, but I think the game should be called:

Something nice 'n' Tasty 2: Oddworld Abe's Revengeance is rising with twice ze Flavour

Varrok · #**112** 04-20-2015, 01:52 PM

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A big part of the logo is the work of Matilda Hansson, thanks to her

I like the design, but something like that wouldn't pass. I think that because JAW/OWI were afraid to use full abe's-exploding-mind artwork on the box. Dunno why, probably too odd for them.