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You're taking this ridiculously personally MA. Got some personal projections into this? Are you on the dole yourself?
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personally? just because i think you're an obnoxious shit, doesn't mean i'm taking it personally. i like to call people out as what they are while knowing they won't like it.
i was out of work between jobs at one point, yes. in the end i did find work and have still got that job, but the area i live in is terrible for unemployment. i know a lot of these people and their situations, but they won't accept charity and hate pity. they may be nearing the bottom for the time being, but that doesn't mean to say that they'll bow or curtsy to someone just because they have a job. that's called self respect, and they try their damnedest to keep hold of that.
that's why i know most of the shit you come out with is complete and utter wank, and it amazes me that anyone could actually believe these insane perceptions you have on people who simply have no work. there are bad examples, of course, but what you're doing is tarring them
all with the same brush.
when i was out of work i thought it couldn't have happened at a worse time. i thought it would be a
long time before i managed to grab something, but i got off lucky. it wasn't long before i found this shitty factory job and i stuck with it. and yet i don't preach to others with that condescending "think yourself lucky, it could be worse" tripe. if anything, the reason i feel so strongly towards this subject is because i struggle myself, and i
have a job. i have no rich relatives, no investments, no safety nets in general. if i fuck up, that's it. game over.
for you to say that those who are jobless have some form of easy life is ignorance at it's peak. i've been there, there is no pot of gold waiting for you at the end of each week. it's completely shit, and i never want to go back there.
that's why i know you're a fucking bullshitter, trying to pass your hearsay and speculations off as fact or even worthy of being considered. do your research.
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What haven't I been answering in your debate?
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here's a few points you haven't yet answered:
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so really, you only have two qualifying points in your little list, and even those are not as simple as you make them out to be. different people and different situations can't just be lumped into separate categories. this isn't a game, this is life, and these are peoples lives. take off your black & white goggles and see the shit that we are in.
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there's no effect if there's no cause. basically, something sparked this whole fiasco, and it escalated. when a person is unhappy, they will only take so much shit before they bite back. change that one unhappy person to a portion of a pissed off nation, and of course things are gonna fuck up royally. but why were they unhappy in the first place? why did it get to the point where they stepped outside the law? yeah, some people joined in for pathetic reasons and took advantage of the situation, but that's herd behaviour. it doesn't excuse their crimes, but it doesn't mean they are totally to blame for this grand shit storm either. open your eyes.
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my point was that you can sit on your high horse for as long as you like, but the painfully obvious fact remains that we're all in the same boat. we all pay for these things, even those on the dole. you really are blinded by your own sense of superiority if you think for one nanosecond that people on the bottom rung of the social ladder have it easy.
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there you go. all better?
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The reason I mentioned my family, I think, was very clear. It shows that someone CAN get their own way out of that situation with good, hard, work. My family came from Yorkshire, from large families who weren't exactly well off. Now, why don't you tell me about your background?
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fucking hell, pay attention, because you missed the point
yet again. you know when i said:
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i don't want to know. i have no idea why you brought up your family history in the first place. if you want to prove something, prove it yourself, don't use somebody else and try to pass it off as a good example to set for others. you. what have you done that's so fucking awe-inspiring?
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well, i didn't want to know about who did what in your family, or their history or any other drivel, because i couldn't really give a shit less. what i wanted was proof from
you. what
have you done that makes you think you have the right to judge people so harshly? also, what have you done that's supposed to be so inspiring to the jobless?
you found a job? not good enough. someone tried to mug you and you're still crying about it? not good enough. you'll have to do a lot better than that, because they're pretty embarrassing reasons, and yet they're the only reasons you've mentioned. it's disgraceful, to be honest, for you to think that you have the right, like some 'free pass', to be such a hard-nosed cunt when it isn't you that's struggling and you have such feeble reasons to support it.
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The point about smoking / tattoos is that if you're so fucking tight on money on this handouts, why spend it on such expensive luxuries? Surely you should be rationing until you're better off? I lose pity for people who claim they're strapped for cash and then go buy expensive luxuries. Or maybe I'm missing some logic here, and those tattoos will help you get a job! Oh wait.
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so, what, you want all those without jobs to only pay for the bare basics until they find work? is that really a good idea? fuck it, just herd them into pens and start culling them. might be a better idea.
how they spend their money is not your concern. a lot of these people are older and
obviously wiser than you are, and yet you seem to want to treat them like they're all scammers, criminals or spongers. why? so what if someone pays for a tattoo? or smokes cigarettes? how in the grand fuck is that
anything to do with you? you're stepping into oppression, here.
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Same with the car. Why not just save some money for when you really do need it, when you're employed? I know exactly what I use it for, and I know that for many applications I could use a bus instead, if I was trying to save money.
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let me just reiterate:
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why would they need a car? well, to actually stand a chance at getting a job in the first place would be one simple answer. a lot of jobs nowadays prefer their employees to have some form of transport, either because it's out of town, it's needed in the job, the job moves from area to area, whatever, therefore having a car is a big boost.
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get a car once you're employed, but you may not get employed without a car. public transport does
not cut it. i've tried that many times before. public transport is unreliable, simple. if you can't get to work because the buses have stopped running or turn up late because the train was delayed, your boss and co-workers aren't going to be very happy, and you could easily disrupt a whole days work. there are plenty of other people out there, so you've got to play it safe, and you'd better be dead or dying if you're gonna turn up late or not at all.
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I mentioned my job because, as made blindingly obvious by the quote I answered, it was suggested that it was easy for me to tell people to 'lower their standards' because I was unemployed myself.
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well whoopifuckingdoo. so was i, and yet i don't say it. these people are not the problem, it's as simple as that.
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And obviously I'm not generalising by one experience, I was giving an example. This sort of stuff happens all the time in my area, half the time I hear it outside my window. Like I said.
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but in this scenario, when you use a personal experience as an example for why you find it hard to 'respect their plight', you're judging
all of them the same as that one individual. tarring them all with the same brush.
generalizing.
the only way you couldn't have been generalizing is if you
wasn't using that experience as an example as to why you have 'difficulties' with them. but, obviously you were:
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I wonder if you'd still defend a chav if one had ever tried to mug you.
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I've been victim of an attempted mugging. It's not fun and doesn't give me a whole lot of respect for their plight.
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And obviously there must be people on the dole who don't act like this. It just seems like the majority, certainly most people I've come into contact with, fit the same unfortunate stereotype, and these are the people who are rioting. Why would I use the phrase 'dole-scum' as all encompassing when I've told everyone before in this thread that I have a couple of friends on the dole? Why would I be friends with someone who I think is a scumbag? Logic please.
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like i said before, saying 'dole-scum' and then quickly following it up with "oh i didn't mean
all of them" isn't clear enough. it would have been
logical for you to make that abundantly clear from the beginning. you keep whining about logic, why don't you go right on ahead and display some yourself?
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Besides, I've answered everyone in this debate, that's why this thread is going on for so fucking long.
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really? you mean you
didn't blatantly ignore this post:
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Now, Goresplatter, precede all those dot points with 'Why?'. Why do they make up the largest part of the crime rates in the country? Why do they take much needed money from the government (rather than work in reliable employment)? Etc.
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maybe the reason this thread is going on for so fucking long is because you aren't even putting up a
half decent defense. it seems to me that every time someone pokes a hole in your argument, you quickly patch it up with more ignorance or just totally ignore it in the hope that it'll go away and people will forget about it. we're not fucking stupid, but nice try, babe.
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You're overly angry and you're lacking logic. Maybe you should go outside and riot! You'd fit in right with the crowd!
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this is who i am, sweetcheeks. suck my dick or punch me in the face, both feel just as good.
but at the end of the day, you're talking shit and will
not take 'no' for an answer. that isn't a debate, that isn't even an argument, that's someone who has no intentions of changing their stance at all, in the hope that we'll eventually start bargaining with them like some spoiled child in the supermarket. because, after all, you're
right.
