Politics

[STM]

I'm surprised we haven't had a political discussion in a while actually...

What political views do you support? I am a firm socialist and believe in a welfare state, equal opportunity and a self-managed economy. Unfortunately it seems Cameron is hell bent on destroying our left wing aspects and making the country capitalist, no matter what the cost is to the lower class and working class.

[enchilado]

I don't really have any political views, and I have no evidence to support the ones I do have. It doesn't matter to me who's in power, but I wish them luck.

[STM]

I just think capitalism in its current form doesn't work very well at all, look at the trouble caused in Greece at the moment.

[Tadimo]

I prefer having a balanced approach to government and the economy. eg having services such as roads, education, health, power, welfare, etc firmly in the public sector while having a well regulated private sector so you don't have certain runaway financial institutions screwing things up for everyone else for example.

As for governance I prefer a democratic system where a party cannot accept political bribes (donations), has limited ability to advertise and has a streamlined bureaucracy and taxation system (no it doesn't have to be an oxymoron).

Instead of advertising party members would have to engage in more public debates with public forums being setup so that all parties can have their say even if they don't have the money to buy their way up.

Pretty idealistic I know but what the heck.

EDIT: As for capitalism the best way to look at it is that it's great if you have the money, otherwise a better system is needed for the majority of people IMO

[Manco]

Proportional representation is the best voting system.

Pity no-one uses it.


As for views, I guess I'm left-wing? Free public healthcare, human rights for everyone (including criminals), careful regulation of the private sector, basically a fair approach to everything.

[moxco]

I'm surprised we haven't had a political discussion in a while actually...

If by a while you mean a month then yeah.

What political views do you support? I am a firm socialist and believe in a welfare state, equal opportunity and a self-managed economy. Unfortunately it seems Cameron is hell bent on destroying our left wing aspects and making the country capitalist, no matter what the cost is to the lower class and working class.

I support equal opportunity too, though I don't support welfare. Much.

My opinion has traditionally been that the government (on top of the basics such as law enforcement, jurisdiction, etc) should provided education and not much else. With public education you cannot claim there is not equal opportunity, for everyone's destiny is really in there own hands. If you fuck up at school the taxpayer shouldn't have to pull your weight.

Taxation, I think, is really just authorized theft. If James wants to buy pineapples from Bob - that is good, it is a deal between them. But then the government jumps in and demands a portion of money made by Bob (something IMO they have no right to do).

[Manco]

Taxation, I think, is really just authorized theft. If James wants to buy pineapples from Bob - that is good, it is a deal between them. But then the government jumps in and demands a portion of money made by Bob (something IMO they have no right to do).

...This money is then spent on healthcare, education, law enforcement, business regulation, emergency services, postal services...

[moxco]

Your point? I acknowledge that some taxation is necessary (I don't support a complete anarchy) to uphold justice and to educate the next generation, however the government shouldn't have the right to take copious amounts of cash to finance services that people should be paying for themselves.

[Nate]

I just think capitalism in its current form doesn't work very well at all, look at the trouble caused in Greece at the moment.

That's not capitalism. That's anarchy posing as capitalism. Their whole taxation system was either incompetent, corrupt or both.

Your point? I acknowledge that some taxation is necessary (I don't support a complete anarchy) to uphold justice and to educate the next generation, however the government shouldn't have the right to take copious amounts of cash to finance services that people should be paying for themselves.

How do you decide which services government should be paying for and which not? I guarantee that significant proportions of the population will disagree about any suggestion you make. Besides, often the government can produce these services more economically than a private system would; compare and contrast the Australian health system with the American.

[Tadimo]

Besides, often the government can produce these services more economically than a private system would; compare and contrast the Australian health system with the American.

Our Aussie health system isn't too shabby thankfully although the govt still made the idiotic decision IMO to divert money to private hospital subsidies instead of relieving the stressed public system.

[moxco]

How do you decide which services government should be paying for and which not? I guarantee that significant proportions of the population will disagree about any suggestion you make. Besides, often the government can produce these services more economically than a private system would; compare and contrast the Australian health system with the American.

I support equality - to a degree. If you have a public education system then everyone has the potential to be wealthy. I feel as if people are given a chance to make what they will of their life and if you choose to be lazy and screw up then good for you, I hope you're happy with your low-paid job. Just don't expect free health, free pension, free rebates and more free shit courtesy of the wealthy.

You touch on the Australian health, it annoys me when people complain about the long waiting periods for public health, BECAUSE IT'S FREE. And don't give me this shit that your taxes pay for it because if one's taxes did cover their own costs they would be able to afford private health. So put up with your long waiting periods, don't take for granted the fact your lucky enough to live in a country where other people are forced to pay for your well-being.

I notice I use the pronoun your a lot. I'm not referring to anyone here, just a hypothetical person I'm arguing with.

[Tadimo]

You touch on the Australian health, it annoys me when people complain about the long waiting periods for public health, BECAUSE IT'S FREE. And don't give me this shit that your taxes pay for it because if one's taxes did cover their own costs they would be able to afford private health. So put up with your long waiting periods, don't take for granted the fact your lucky enough to live in a country where other people are forced to pay for your well-being.

I thought it would be prudent to add that the private sector generally tries to charge as much as humanly possible since they're in the business of making as much money as possible, especially for things like health care. The amount charged for private health care is often many, MANY times over what you would pay for through taxes for even a moderately efficient public health care system.

That means that while your taxes could cover the costs of public health care, that same money would get only a fraction of the services/products bought from the private sector.

Yes I know that competition in the private sector is supposed to keep prices down, but that doesn't seem to have much of an effect on some industries especially with the merging of many companies. It's one thing for businesses to charge as much as they can, but it's another thing to have almost unrestrained gouging on critical elements such as health care, power/utilities, etc.

[Wings of Fire]

Also monopolies.

Private sector industries can and will take until there is nothing left. The Libertarian dream is just so much horseshit.

[Nate]

*long post*

You didn't actually respond to my comment; you just went on a rant about the public health system.

Following on from the previous two posts, the reason why private health costs in Australia are low compared to the USA is because there is a public system. They charge as much as they can, knowing that a significant percentage of the population will be prepared to pay it. But if they charged more, their profits would drop as those people switched to the public system. If there was no competition from the public hospitals, the private system would be free to charge what they like and alienate as many people as they want.

[Daxter King]

I support equality - to a degree. If you have a public education system then everyone has the potential to be wealthy. I feel as if people are given a chance to make what they will of their life and if you choose to be lazy and screw up then good for you, I hope you're happy with your low-paid job. Just don't expect free health, free pension, free rebates and more free shit courtesy of the wealthy.

[JennyGenesis]

I don't have an interest in politics, too complicated for me. I just get the feeling that the economy is ruined though and I can't see how we are goona get out of it and the fact those silly twats known as the government hiked up the student fees is making things worse. Had a good discussion about it in college. Rise in fees may result in putting people off from applying, no students, no skills to be learnt which means that jobs that require certain university qualifications cannot be taken so certain services that are required cannot be done.

It is nice that people do get a fair education system reguarding school and college, but to put it politely. In my experience those who come from families with no jobs and live on benefits constantly with a great lack of encouragement don't tell to perform well in school JUST IN MY EXPERIENCE THOUGH SO DON'T GET OFFENDED

Granted, my mum raised me as a single parent on benefits, she had to give up her job so she could raise me, but I had a lot of encouragement from her and my family to do well in school and college and good encouragements on earning a decent wage from a decent job which I would get from good grades to have a decent living and stuff like that so I believe this may have added to my achievement in school which is why I came out with good grades. If I didn't get the encouragement I got I would think fuck it whats the point. My group of friends in school, all of our parents lived on benefits apart from one of us who had parents that were very rich but from what I could see, only me and the rich kid got the encouragement.

My mum become pregnant with me at 18 and it was unplanned, despite this big setback I can only assume that her parents gave her the same encouragement to do well in school ETC and she passed this advice onto me.

[T-nex]

I hate politics and its complicated rules. Half of the laws in power are really dumb anyway... What I hate the most is lawful robbery. Such as those pesky tv licenses you HAVE to pay even though you don't own a TV at all(Cos I have internet, and incidentally i have the POSSIBILITY to visit the national tv station site.. but I dont).

But Im sort of glad Im not an American citizen... You guys gets fucked in the ass by politicians even harder x_x I feel for you guys!
I wonder why there are so many corrupted politicians in power. Is it really power that corrupts them, or does the branch just attract the bad types? I hear about a lot of aspiring-to-be-politicians who have great ideas, but they don't get that far.

Hm.. Politics scare me. I don't even know what I'm talking about.

[JennyGenesis]

When the big election was happening in the UK we were told by the party currently in power (really can't remember who as I don't follow it at all) no we will not rise student fees. As soon as they are in power, what do they do? put a raise on student fees, then there were the students protests in London which turned into a riot.

[OddjobAbe]

we were told by the party currently in power (really can't remember who as I don't follow it at all)

Jesus. Even if you have no interest in it, you should know who's in power. The conservatives are in power and the liberal democrats supposedly share that power.

[T-nex]

Did the riots works? .... I doubt they ever do, cos they most likely die out after a while. People dont like stepping out of their convenience zone for too long. But I could be wrong.

[OddjobAbe]

They don't seem to have worked at all. Riots are stupid for various reasons, but any idiot should realise that when the news reports protests, they focus on the fucking halfwits who are smashing windows and bashing cars, which, for obvious reasons, to an outsider makes the whole protest look like a yob congregation which only exacerbates the problem they were originally protesting against.

[JennyGenesis]

Jesus. Even if you have no interest in it, you should know who's in power. The conservatives are in power and the liberal democrats supposedly share that power.

Like I said, all too complicated for me. That's how unknowledgeable I am on this that I don't even know whos in power lol. I don't even vote, all the same to me....nonsense

[Manco]

Jesus. Even if you have no interest in it, you should know who's in power. The conservatives are in power and the liberal democrats supposedly share that power.

Keyword is supposedly.

[OddjobAbe]

Like I said, all too complicated for me. That's how unknowledgeable I am on this that I don't even know whos in power lol. I don't even vote, all the same to me....nonsense

Apathy is bad. At least show some interest in the way your country is run. It affects YOU.

[Wings of Fire]

But Im sort of glad Im not an American citizen... You guys gets fucked in the ass by politicians even harder x_x I feel for you guys!
I wonder why there are so many corrupted politicians in power. Is it really power that corrupts them, or does the branch just attract the bad types?

Ask yourself why people would want the job of president or prime minister. Very very few would give an honest answer of 'To do my job and govern and protect people as best I can'.

Plato said it best in the Republic where he theorized you could kill corruption dead by making sure the people with the most power were slightly less off than the average citizen, so no corruption comes of it.

There's about five bazilion problems with that, but still.

[JennyGenesis]

Apathy is bad. At least show some interest in the way your country is run. It affects YOU.

All seems the same to me................

[Wings of Fire]

All seems the same to me................

Have fun getting your own rights stripped from you one by one because you never had the presence of mind to seek out and vote for what you believe in.

It will be nobody's fault but your own.

[OddjobAbe]

You'll realise that things aren't the same when you're trying to get work. Things weren't even too good to begin with. What we have is a morton's fork. All of the main political parties are poor and consist of sterile non-entities of politicians who all use the same sterile phrases (designed to baffle apathetic people such as yourself) and body language and all seem to be conveying the same bullshit. I can't blame you for not being interested in the politicians considering the situation, but you should make an effort to find at least some interest in the stuff they do, because it is destructive.

EDIT: WoF's a speedy shit.

[moxco]

You didn't actually respond to my comment; you just went on a rant about the public health system.

Following on from the previous two posts, the reason why private health costs in Australia are low compared to the USA is because there is a public system. They charge as much as they can, knowing that a significant percentage of the population will be prepared to pay it. But if they charged more, their profits would drop as those people switched to the public system. If there was no competition from the public hospitals, the private system would be free to charge what they like and alienate as many people as they want.

I'm not denying that prices will rise if health is privatised (nor am I agreeing), because that was not my point. And higher prices or not, no one is being forced to pay for it.

[Manco]

no one is being forced to pay for it.

Maybe you should look up Obama's health bill.