Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark -

Wings of Fire · #**241** 05-21-2011, 11:58 AM

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It's pronounced Hey-Zeus though not Jesus.

Just like Joseph is pronounced Hoe-Zay over there.

enchilado · #**242** 05-21-2011, 02:05 PM

They also spell it José.

Hobo · #**243** 05-21-2011, 02:10 PM

Oh cool a Religion thread. *Leaves*

STM · #**244** 05-21-2011, 03:31 PM

Because in Spain and Mexico 'J' is 'hchh'

LDG519 · #**245** 05-21-2011, 03:56 PM

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About miracles... Both LDG and STM can answer this one

What about the miracles do you feel proves that exactly the god you believe in exist.
I mean, consider this. What if you guys believed in something so much that you in fact made it happen and not some deity. Have you ever heard of Law of Attraction? It may be a stretch... It's worth looking into.

Then there's also all those theories about infinite universes and infinite possibilities. This gives some people reason to believe that there may be a universe out there where miracles happen. Maybe this is the one.

Now I'm not saying I personally believe it, but there are so many things that could be the truth rather than the religion you believe in... Specially some religion that gets so far stuck up into a story. A story that probably isn't true anymore due to numerous edits of the bible anyway. I mean... it may have been true once. But it's been tainted by man, either from the beginning or somewhere along the history. What do you do when you consider this?

Like for example... what if the anti-gay thingy, someone just added that into the bible as an interpretation, and then people went along with it. How can you be sure your religion is actually opposed to homosexuality.

your right that I can't be sure that the miracles are specifically from christianity, however when the miracles happen seconds after a prayer it makes me confident that I'm on the right track, even though I know I'll probably get into trouble I shall provide an example (you don't have to belive me as I have no proof, and this is not to try and convert anyone it is just to give T-nex an example of what I'm talking about)

I had to catch a train, I bought my ticket and at some point dropped it, when I noticed my ticket was gone I looked everywere I had been since buying the ticket and it wasn't there, I didn't have enough money for another ticket and as I couldn't find my ticket I didn't know what to do, so I went to the corner and started to pray, asking that I either find my ticket or find enough money on the ground to get another ticket, before I could finish saying "in the name of thy son jesus christ, amen" the garbage collector asked me to move aside as I was blocking her way to getting to a used tissue on the ground that I hadn't noticed, I then got the Idea to ask her if she scooped up any train tickets, and as it turned out, she did, and my ticket was there.

the way I see it is if I didn't stop to pray the garbage collecter would have just scooped up the tissue and chucked my ticket in a bin somewere and I would have had a hell of a hard time getting home, also if some random person didn't decide to litter a tissue in that corner I would have also had a hell of a hard time getting home, I guess littering can help people.

Manco · #**246** 05-21-2011, 04:04 PM

Correlation does not imply causation.

STM · #**247** 05-21-2011, 04:06 PM

But it does point to it. Things like this I agree are sometimes so stark it's hard to deny they are miracles. Personal miracles though, small things count.

Manco · #**248** 05-21-2011, 04:10 PM

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing, no?

Wings of Fire · #**249** 05-21-2011, 05:51 PM

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But it does point to it.

No it doesn't, that's called implication.

Correlation absolutely does not imply causation.

***Nate*** · #**250** 05-21-2011, 06:15 PM

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Oh fuck off.

Sorry but really; Why is the old testament up for debate? Did any church official claim that it is no longer canon? Nope, Christians are rejecting it because it's convenient. Religious critics love to pick over the old testament because it's so full of bullshit. Even the most passionate Christians find it hard to defend all the fucked up morales. If you're blindly going to follow the new testament why is the old testament up for debate?

Yes, plenty of Church officials claimed that the Old Testament is no longer canon. And they say that because Jesus supposedly said it. Humanity lives in a state of grace thanks to his sacrifice and that means that only the New Testament and whatever the popes decided to lay down counts as law.

Now, a better question for you to ask is why Christians today still use the Old Testament when it's convenient to do so.

LDG519 · #**251** 05-21-2011, 06:49 PM

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Correlation does not imply causation.

however regular correlation does

T-nex · #**252** 05-21-2011, 06:53 PM

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miracle talk

You know... The thing is.. I think prayer of any kind would yield such results.

For example, I can tell you right now that I'm a powerful being, way more powerful than you. Because I don't need prayer for these things to happen. I've made similar situation spawn with the power of my thoughts. Not deity was involved.

But... I just add them up to coincidences of law of attraction.

See, I think if you believe in something enough, you'll make it happen somehow. No magic involved.

Wings of Fire · #**253** 05-21-2011, 06:54 PM

Confirmation bias.

Every 100 bad things happening is dumb luck or inevitability

Every 1 good thing happening is a gift from God

Utterly infallible, utterly worthless.

metroixer · #**254** 05-21-2011, 06:56 PM

Um, if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that anything can happen as long as you think hard enough about it?

edit: Directed at T-Nex

T-nex · #**255** 05-21-2011, 07:19 PM

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Um, if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that anything can happen as long as you think hard enough about it?

edit: Directed at T-Nex

Personally I think it may be more like a placebo/subconscious thing.... But if you think enough in one direction, there's a possibility it will happen.

metroixer · #**256** 05-21-2011, 07:23 PM

If you can believe in that, what's wrong with believing in a higher being that can help you?

T-nex · #**257** 05-21-2011, 07:33 PM

Because it doesn't include magic.... When you focus on something enough, you start noticing it more. Sometimes it will be as if you manifested it.

Now, we may actually have the ability to manifest things what with quantum physics and stuff. But I wouldn't know.

I'm looking at this from a more realistic point of view.

LDG519 · #**258** 05-21-2011, 07:38 PM

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Personally I think it may be more like a placebo/subconscious thing.... But if you think enough in one direction, there's a possibility it will happen.

If I understand you correctly than your either saying the whole, what you think controls the universe thing that I saw on a show called "the secret" or your suggesting that if you think hard enough about something that you will subconsciously do things to make it happen or interpret something in a way that makes it seem like it happened.

I don't think the first one has any merit but the second one sounds quite logical.

If I'm mistaken please correct me

T-nex · #**259** 05-21-2011, 07:48 PM

Yea I'm talking about the latter....

Gwan-Thwei · #**260** 05-21-2011, 09:32 PM

Alright I'll contribute...
I follow Zalgo because It's fun. I like fucking things up and corrupting stuff. I don't belive in it though, I'm not completely retarded.

That being said, I am an athiest. I don't care if someone follows a god or whatever, just so long as they don't try to force me to belive in their same god. Too much has happened for me to belive in a god.
And the afterlife seems like a fairytale to me. Yes, it would be nice to live on after death, but lets face it, I'm not going anywhere, afterlife or not. The whole concept of death scares me, and while it would be nice to think that there's something more to life I'm a firm beliver that My brain will stop operating one day, killing me without even realizing it.

Havoc · #**261** 05-22-2011, 01:11 AM

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Because it doesn't include magic.... When you focus on something enough, you start noticing it more. Sometimes it will be as if you manifested it.

Now, we may actually have the ability to manifest things what with quantum physics and stuff. But I wouldn't know.

I'm looking at this from a more realistic point of view.

T-nex means the power of mind over matter, which is something I believe does happen on occasion.

Best example might be cancer suddenly disappearing. Where a lot of people put that on their hours of praying, I find it more likely that you somehow influence your own body into somehow recognizing what the problem is and fixing it. Call it survival instinct, or strong will, but the human body has proven over and over that it can do some incredible stuff.

Manco · #**262** 05-22-2011, 03:17 AM

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however regular correlation does

How many times have you prayed for something that has come true?

How many times have you prayed for something that has not come true?

I can guarantee you the second number is far larger, but there's this handy psychological thing called "confirmation bias" where the positives stick in your mind more than the negatives.

Also, how often have you prayed for something that has come true through something that was likely to happen anyway or could be attributed to coincidence or luck?

It's far too easy to interpret good things as divine intervention simply because they're good. If you ask me, a sign from a deity would not be up for debate as it would be pretty damn obvious.

STM · #**263** 05-22-2011, 04:55 AM

Generally when you pray for something, rather than actually receiving it, you gain the opportunity to do it yourself. You pray for success...your dates are clear, your study books arrive, it's down to you surely?

T-nex · #**264** 05-22-2011, 05:02 AM

Then why pray? I'd rather waste my time on something useful then.

If it's all up to you(like we were saying all along), then really there's no point in praying... God doesn't listen anyway.

Really... When shit goes right, you have to thank yourself and be happy about yourself. not give the credit to a being that may or may not exist.

Havoc · #**265** 05-22-2011, 05:16 AM

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Generally when you pray for something, rather than actually receiving it, you gain the opportunity to do it yourself. You pray for success...your dates are clear, your study books arrive, it's down to you surely?

You make less and less sense every post you make.

STM · #**266** 05-22-2011, 05:47 AM

I know but I'm not good at explaining things...especially things as intricate as prayer. Ugh, talking is so overrated.

Strike Witch · #**267** 05-22-2011, 05:53 AM

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Oh cool a Religion thread. *Leaves*

please be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be foreverplease be forever

JennyGenesis · #**268** 05-22-2011, 05:53 AM

I get the feeling that STM is realizing something..............

STM · #**269** 05-22-2011, 06:09 AM

I need to shut the fuck up is what I'm realising.

Manco · #**270** 05-22-2011, 06:39 AM

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Generally when you pray for something, rather than actually receiving it, you gain the opportunity to do it yourself. You pray for success...your dates are clear, your study books arrive, it's down to you surely?

If it's down to you then how is proof of a God

answer: it's not