Vintage Game Club do Abe's Oddysee

[Sanssouci]

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/mb/bra...r?forum=128522

Vintage Game Club choose old games to play and then discuss within their community, essentially a book club. They tend to dissect game mechanics and go into a lot of detail over their thoughts.

They did Abe's Oddysee a couple of months ago and their thoughts are fairly interesting.

Mostly they don't like it:
- too unnecessarily hard, with harsh checkpoints, a lot of dying working out what to do and hence a lot of repetition. (If I was playing this for the first time now, I would never finish it for this reason)
- too reliant on timing, timed button presses, which any decent robot arm could pull off. Movement is exact - digital, not analogue - grid based.

While most don't like that gaming artifice, some hate the natural flow of the environments and the lack of clarity or level-signposting between areas, puzzles, etc (the temple rooms being the exception to this, of course)

[Andrelvis]

They hate some of the things I like the most about AO. And really, if AO was any easier, it wouldn't be fun at all. Beating the game with 99 requires a bit of getting used to how secret areas are set, but just beating it with the good ending isn't that difficult.

The natural flow is great, it makes you feel like you are in a plausible place, and not "game level #". AO has great immersion, which unfortunately didn't carry over completely to AE.

[AlexFili]

I actually feel that AE has more immersion, because the levels are just so varied, graphically.

[Wings of Fire]

Oh wow, these guys really do suck balls. It makes me chuckle seeing them compare it to games like Fallout and Fable and complaining it needs real time and commitment.

[Sanssouci]

I think this is particularly interesting cos these are mostly adults who have been previously unexposed to Oddworld, so don't have previous playthroughs as a more-forgiving-child colouring any opinions.

I like seeing how people didn't realise you could possess sligs early on, or how you could run, jump and hoist, or how you could go from running straight into a roll... makes me realise how difficult it is to objectively analyse the game with previous experience

[Wil]

I find it amusing that people don’t realize how to do these things after being told how in the game. It’s not like they ever had to read the manual to uncover secret moves. The only thing I don’t think was explained was that you can run-jump-hoist, and I suppose you wouldn’t necessarily work that out on your own.

[Andrelvis]

I find it amusing that people don’t realize how to do these things after being told how in the game. It’s not like they ever had to read the manual to uncover secret moves. The only thing I don’t think was explained was that you can run-jump-hoist, and I suppose you wouldn’t necessarily work that out on your own.

Exactly.

[AlexFili]

The tutorial in Abe's Exoddus is better.

[BlowCo Bonesaw]

They complain about the fact that the game actually requires you to use your brain and not just mindlessly blow up and shoot everything? This is ridiculous! A game is supposed to be a challenge to last a long time, not a chaotic battlefield where you press a couple of random buttons and everything goes "KABOOM!". They play, for the first time it seems, an actual challenge, and whine about it because their brains aren't complex enough to try to solve the puzzles in the game? Lack of narrative? Oddworld has a better story than any game I've played! Or do they think that it is only a narrative when it involves all of the enemies instantly dying after a simple pull of a trigger of the main character's gun? It is time they should learn that there's more to a game than a ridiculously powerful main character who simply shoots the game enemy after 30 minutes of gameplay where you simply shoot everyone and end the game.

[Sanssouci]

Good job constructing three absurd strawmen and taking them apart

They complain about the fact that the game actually requires you to use your brain and not just mindlessly blow up and shoot everything?

No

They play, for the first time it seems, an actual challenge, and whine about it because their brains aren't complex enough to try to solve the puzzles in the game?

No

Or do they think that it is only a narrative when it involves all of the enemies instantly dying after a simple pull of a trigger of the main character's gun?

No

[BlowCo Bonesaw]

So you're saying they aren't complaining about the puzzles in Oddworld? They are complaining about the difficulty level, and the puzzles are what makes Oddworld hard.

[Andrelvis]

They look like the people that, when faced with an actual challenge in a game, go all like "w00t! this is so unbalanced!" just because they can't beat it so easily.

[Slog Bait]

I find it amusing that people don’t realize how to do these things after being told how in the game. It’s not like they ever had to read the manual to uncover secret moves. The only thing I don’t think was explained was that you can run-jump-hoist, and I suppose you wouldn’t necessarily work that out on your own.

Well, they never stated (in the marqees) how to throw/shoot. When I went from the PSX version to the PC version, that was my biggest problem trying to find where that button was.

In the end it was the 'Z' button.

[Bullet Magnet]

Movement is exact - digital, not analogue - grid based.

This is bizarre. Anyone who played Prince of Persia will remember their frustration trying to climb up to higher platforms when they just weren't quite directly underneath it. Which is made all the more difficult by the cavalier projection of the levels.

And just try jumping Oddworld's mine fields without digital footsteps. Half the puzzles were only feasible with the mechanic.

[Sanssouci]

So you're saying they aren't complaining about the puzzles in Oddworld? They are complaining about the difficulty level, and the puzzles are what makes Oddworld hard.

They're complaining that it harshly punishes minor mistakes and experimentation, something deemed particularly unfair where there is a great deal of trial and error.
The puzzles themselves are not difficult to work out.
Completing 5 timing challenges before mistiming a jump and being killed by a bat so you have to go back and redo the 5 timing challenges you've already done and then get past the bat to then make a mistake with a rolling rock - to then go back and do the 5 timing challenges + the bat jump again + the rock properly this time then onto the paramites who surprise them from the ceiling and then die and re-do it all again this time ready for the paramites etc.
This is what annoys those people.

This is bizarre. Anyone who played Prince of Persia will remember their frustration trying to climb up to higher platforms when they just weren't quite directly underneath it. Which is made all the more difficult by the cavalier projection of the levels.

It is a bizarre criticism. I think it is one made void when you accept AO is a puzzle game more than a platformer. The digital steps and grid are absolutely necessary.

[Andrelvis]

They're complaining that it harshly punishes minor mistakes and experimentation, something deemed particularly unfair where there is a great deal of trial and error.
The puzzles themselves are not difficult to work out.
Completing 5 timing challenges before mistiming a jump and being killed by a bat so you have to go back and redo the 5 timing challenges you've already done and then get past the bat to then make a mistake with a rolling rock - to then go back and do the 5 timing challenges + the bat jump again + the rock properly this time then onto the paramites who surprise them from the ceiling and then die and re-do it all again this time ready for the paramites etc.
This is what annoys those people.

I do hate that part of Paramonia. I remember when I first got AE, and thought how the quicksave thing was refreshing. But it becomes a bit too much, because you can save at *any* place. IMO the best would be AO with more saving points.

[AlexFili]

QuickSave is actually utilized well in AE. It's just a shame that some of the puzzles are actually easier than AE, which defeats the whole purpose of including it.

[Nate]

Just to compare and contrast, here is a quote from Toblix at the idlethumbs forum from someone who had all the same issues with AE, and yet decided that the problem came from within himself, not with the game:

Jesus, this is the ultimate confirmation that I suck at gaming (or that gaming used to suck). These Oddworld games are awesome. I loved them back when I played them on the old Pentium 90, and I remember imagining a never ending series of these awesome 2D puzzle platformers. When I play them today, though, there's one single element that I lack, that I apparently didn't back then -- patience. I remember the first time I died, I expected to just pop back a screen or two and continue playing, because hey, I loved these games, and that happening is something I would've loved. Or so I thought. What happens is a death animation, then a couple of seconds of loading, and then a new animation as I pop back four or five screens back. I get annoyed at this, and it's fucking pathetic. The game challenges me slightly and I feel all... offended or something. This is bullshit, I'm going to finish this and cure my gaming shitness.

Oh, and I have to repeat this: Although it's obvious these games aren't new, they play like gold and chocolate. They're an awesome mix of platforming and puzzles and if you don't buy them you deserve to die. Just like those privacy fags who complain about Google Maps Street View.

[Pilot]

It's hard to think of Abe's Oddysee as a 'vintage' game. It seems like only yesterday I saw the commercial for it on TV....

[/reminisce]

[Stuv]

I think AE, fixed alot of the problems they had, like quick save and less timing puzzles. My least favorite part was deactivating those bombs. Games now, thoug, are alot nicer to the player. Atleast it's not like alot of old games with continues where you get to the last boss and die on your last life.