Things you wish WILL change with OW2.0

caracal · #1 03-03-2008, 01:45 PM

Well, I think we all know that the oddworld property IS going to change when the movie comes around, it is a shame that it has to change but maybe we can look at the positive ways it could change!

here's my list
1-All of the creatures of the same design quality as those introduced in AO (AE not so much since only some were new)....I think anyone will agree that a worryfish or a meep isnt as interesting as a paramite!

2-More shades of humour, the slapstick humour was great and I love a lot of the scenes (like diprick saying "I knew that, I did..."), but sometimes it struck me as innapropiate. I think a good example of this out of place humour was the "boiler" moment at the end of AE, it just seemed like a silly way to reveal the next objective.I think the movies would be more mature if there were more varied shades of humour in there

3-more types of normal looking mudukons, I know we got a bunch of mage types in MO, but all of the regular mudokons look the same...better characterization would be good for the movie!

4-more involvement of regular mudokons in the adventure, a bigger cast of characters that actually have an influence on the story...maybe we can follow some shaman mudokons as they open up doors for Abe.

5-give Abe his pinky back! hopefully the big-time producers can pay those horrible japanese harrasing people and Abe can return to his former glory.

so...there you go

maybe I'll post some more if I can think of them

Bullet Magnet · #2 03-03-2008, 04:18 PM

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1-All of the creatures of the same design quality as those introduced in AO (AE not so much since only some were new)....I think anyone will agree that a worryfish or a meep isnt as interesting as a paramite!

If you want the same stuff then the options for Oddworld will be very limited. Of course everyone loves the original creatures- they are what we fell in love with in the first place. When it comes to pleasing the fans, the designers get an easy ride in the first instalment of any franchise- the only fans to please will be the ones who they make, and of course they'll like what they are doing. Following that up though, well... Fans are horrible, horrible people to please. They all know what they want, yet have no idea what that would look like when materialised. I even suspect that it is physically impossible to do so anyway. They want to see paramites and scrabs all over again, yet also be new and surprising. Good luck designers! Even if they got the original artists who designed them in the first place back (unlikely) they would still be reigned in by the fans unreachable desires. No, let them move on to bigger and better things. We all love the original cast. Now let them show us something new.

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3-more types of normal looking mudukons, I know we got a bunch of mage types in MO, but all of the regular mudokons look the same...better characterization would be good for the movie!

It would be good, but is difficult to pull off. No one has or is going to spend the resources designing unique bit-part and background characters. Remember the generic crowds from The Incredibles? The y wanted to have six basic models for each gender with which to procedurally morph to generate basic citizens. Pixar would only spare the funds for one, with which they had to make do. And with stylistic, cartoony, Team Fortress visuals, thy had much more scope for extreme morph channels than the photo-realistic styles of Oddworld. When they want new characters, more often than not we see new species. We can tell those apart, but our brains would have trouble recognising the facial features of noseless, giant-eyes mudokons without clear visual clues (stitched lips, blue skin, giant masks etc).

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4-more involvement of regular mudokons in the adventure, a bigger cast of characters that actually have an influence on the story...maybe we can follow some shaman mudokons as they open up doors for Abe.

I don't think we'll need to worry about shaman's randomly appearing throughout Abe's adventures in the movies, somehow.

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5-give Abe his pinky back! hopefully the big-time producers can pay those horrible japanese harrasing people and Abe can return to his former glory.

The three-fingered hands are now canonical anatomy, and the story of the four fingers is now a prided part of Oddworld Inhabitant's history. And it's a pretty lame cause to spend thousands of dollars on when there is a perfectly apt alternative already in usage.

In short, caracal, stop living in the past! These are not changes, they are one big eleven-year step backwards. Look forward to Oddworld's future. That is what Oddworld 2.0 is all about.!

caracal · #3 03-03-2008, 05:52 PM

Heheh....you read a bit too fast there fla...er bullet magnet

. I dont think you got half of what I was saying and still you contradict me....plus...where is YOUR list? that is the whole point, if you dont like mine then post yours, show that enthusiasm for OW2.0 instead of trampling on mine! what are your big ideas?

1-I wasnt saying just go back to Paramites and Scrabs, I was saying they should put out more creatures with that standard of design, which is far superior to most of the stuff they did in MO.

3-So you are actually proposing that all of the mudokons in the movie have the same generic look and only diferentiate from abe by their skincolor? that would be the same as having everybody in the crowd in The Incredibles wear a brown jumpsuit or something. I'm sure atleast some diferent clothing will be used, I would just like to see that taken as far as it can...not necesarily 180º different models the way you make it seem O_o some different eye colors maybe diferent numbers of teeth..whatever

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4-I am not worried about shamans appearing in the adventure, I actually think a bigger cast would make a better movie..shamans were just an example but I think we need more mudokons with actual roles in the story to have some good film storytelling (which is diferent from game storytelling). You got the sense of being a savior in the game cause you were always sending Mudokons to happy land, but seeing abe do this in the movie would be far more boring and would NOT communicate the plot the way it did in gameaplay. so I hope that the other mudokons are better developed and have actual roles in the movie.

5-cannon has a solution....it's called retcon

I know that's what is now official, and I know I'm picking on something we're all used to now. But that residual and inept pinky was imprinted on the fucking face of the moon..the irony of that was golden. now their hands are just 3 fingered hands, like those of any other creature. I know this is just a pet peeve on my part...but I'd still like to see it back

hell, I think I'd even prefer to have 5 fingers with two residual useless fingers. dont worry, you dont have to think that way...that's just what I think and that's fine!

Bullet Magnet · #4 03-03-2008, 06:41 PM

No, I was just pointing out either why I think they won't do what you suggested here and why I think they shouldn't do what you suggested here. That doesn't mean I would not have liked to see it!

***Xavier*** · #5 03-03-2008, 11:01 PM

I'd like more oddworld products and news...

for the rest I trust Lorne, he seems to know what to do

abe is now! · #6 03-04-2008, 01:27 AM

I hope OWI is keeping old Oddworld's style, it's brilliant. And I hope there won't be lots of new creatures, just a big explanation of our favourites (Paramites, Scrabs, Meeches) that haven't been enhanced in the past. Yes, I'd like some new creatures too. And I think we won't see new characters.

DarkHoodness · #7 03-04-2008, 05:54 AM

I kinda agree with Caracal in the way that I don't want OWI to change major parts of the original OW drastically, but of course things would have to be changed to accommodate the movie and storytelling. After all, there's things which work in games, but don't work in movies. :P It'd also be nice to see old ideas merged together with new ideas - Including any unused concepts that they wanted to put into the original games, but never got around to it.

Mentioning slapstick humour made me think a little. Humour in general can be funny, but sometimes it took away the atmosphere and seriousness of the original game storylines (This wasn't a problem in SW but it was a major problem in MO and AE in comparison to AO) - I hope they don't do this with the movies. It's good when there's a balance. One thing I hope they don't do is primarily aim their movies at a younger audience, or whore themselves out again to big companies like they did when MO came out (and why is sHell all over the concepts of CS?! I hope it's being used as an example and not because sHell are sponsoring them or so).

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for the rest I trust Lorne, he seems to know what to do

I hope you're right with this - I'm a little sceptical. But that's only 'cause they screwed up majorly with MO and because Stranger didn't go as far as it should've done due to bad management decisions. CS doesn't seem that original to me either, and I really hope it'll go far (People like variations on things that have sort of been done before though, so that's perhaps not a bad thing).

Just my thoughts. :P

***Wil*** · #8 03-04-2008, 06:03 AM

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why is sHell all over the concepts of CS?! I hope it's being used as an example and not because sHell are sponsoring them or so.

I don’t think Shell would sponsor anyone to describe them as an environment-destroying, resource-hogging, money-greedy, manipulative and conspiring organization. But then you never know…

DarkHoodness · #9 03-04-2008, 06:09 AM

But then why did Micro$uck partly sponsor MO, when in the end, Micro$uck themselves are pretty bad, environmentally wise, as a company (even if it's not obvious that they are 'cause they deal with computers and not oil or anything directly destructive), while MO and OWI's stance in general is against enviromental destruction and greed?

Or have I got it wrong again?

Fuzzle Guy · #10 03-04-2008, 06:46 AM

Microsoft didn't sponsor MO. They produced it. And when I think of companies that destroy the environment, Microsoft isn't exactly the first of them that spring to mind...

Now, Microsoft may destroy the environment with computers, so it can be considered as hypocritical of MS to put their name to such a game, but Oddworld use computers just as much as Microsoft do.

Also, Oddworld isn't trying to preach to the world about the wrongs of what we're doing, they're trying to make a good game. If they believed that strongly in the environment, then they'd be living in mud huts telling stories, not making computer games.

Bullet Magnet · #11 03-04-2008, 09:16 AM

OWI only ever associated with companies with good working conditions for their employees and due environmental awareness. SoBe even improved their environmentalist activity to sponsor MO.

***Xavier*** · #12 03-04-2008, 10:53 AM

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SoBe even improved their environmentalist activity to sponsor MO.

Really? Do you have any links where I can learn more about that?

and can someone tell me why MS is to bad?

abe is now! · #13 03-04-2008, 11:01 AM

In fact, I want to read it too, BM!!!

***Wil*** · #14 03-04-2008, 01:45 PM

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Micro$uck themselves are pretty bad, environmentally wise, as a company (even if it's not obvious that they are 'cause they deal with computers and not oil or anything directly destructive)

I’ve never heard of any environmental destruction being caused by Microsoft. I’m not a fan of their practices from the points of view of healthy industry competition or quality assurance, but on a grander scheme they’re nothing like many other corporations.

Bullet Magnet · #15 03-04-2008, 03:54 PM

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OWI only ever associated with companies with good working conditions for their employees and due environmental awareness. SoBe even improved their environmentalist activity to sponsor MO.

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Really? Do you have any links where I can learn more about that?

My memory was playing tricks. They only raised the nutritional value of their drinks and "came up clean" in the search for environmental and labour issues, but not necessarily because of the MO co-promotion.

Alector · #16 03-05-2008, 02:02 PM

(This is Dark Hood posting, but I can't be arsed to switch accounts. :P I'm just hi-jacking the PC while 'Leccy is on the bog.)

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I’ve never heard of any environmental destruction being caused by Microsoft. I’m not a fan of their practices from the points of view of healthy industry competition or quality assurance, but on a grander scheme they’re nothing like many other corporations.

I guess not but they aren't exactly pro-environment either (but then try finding any large company that is. :P). Before I miss the point entirely though, M$ are greedy, and only care about thier money and thier dominance of the computer industry, instead of anything else - A behaviour which is shared also by other, more destructive companies. It can't be good for the environment in any way, shape or form, IMO. And for this, it seems weird that they would publish anything like MO. Get my meaning? (And yes, I'm aware Fuzzle Guy posted something similar to this. :P I just scrolled down and re-read. oops. :S But I guess that means I agree with him.)

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Also, Oddworld isn't trying to preach to the world about the wrongs of what we're doing, they're trying to make a good game. If they believed that strongly in the environment, then they'd be living in mud huts telling stories, not making computer games.

I know that too, I mis-worded things again. :P OWI just spreads the word against exploitation and corporate greed using thier own parodies to tell a story, and in turn uses that as an excuse to be creative, make movies and games, and make thier own cash. :P But then there's nothing wrong with that, it makes thier fans more aware.

caracal · #17 03-05-2008, 04:41 PM

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I kinda agree with Caracal in the way that I don't want OWI to change major parts of the original OW drastically, but of course things would have to be changed to accommodate the movie and storytelling. After all, there's things which work in games, but don't work in movies. :P It'd also be nice to see old ideas merged together with new ideas - Including any unused concepts that they wanted to put into the original games, but never got around to it.

Mentioning slapstick humour made me think a little. Humour in general can be funny, but sometimes it took away the atmosphere and seriousness of the original game storylines (This wasn't a problem in SW but it was a major problem in MO and AE in comparison to AO) - I hope they don't do this with the movies. It's good when there's a balance. One thing I hope they don't do is primarily aim their movies at a younger audience, or whore themselves out again to big companies like they did when MO came out (and why is sHell all over the concepts of CS?! I hope it's being used as an example and not because sHell are sponsoring them or so).

I hope you're right with this - I'm a little sceptical. But that's only 'cause they screwed up majorly with MO and because Stranger didn't go as far as it should've done due to bad management decisions. CS doesn't seem that original to me either, and I really hope it'll go far (People like variations on things that have sort of been done before though, so that's perhaps not a bad thing).

I'm not really against changing major parts of OW, what I think is a shame is that there must be retconning AT ALL. But knowing that it IS going to take place, I think it's better to revamp things dtrastically so it's almost an alternate universe as a way of doing away with any probable confusion.

I think it could even be a good idea to make AO and AE into the same adventure...

Do you guys really have no ideas or hopes for OW2.0? I really thought people would have a little more hope for it...specially with the art we've seen. I mean I know that Lorne can probably handle things on his own, but that doesnt mean that it wouldnt be a good thing for us to think what could be posible in this revamped universe.

I'm very intrigued by that one pic where we see the Muds in a metropolitan type area like we've never seen in Abe's adventures....I think that opens a posiblity for a lot of social criticism goodness

paramiteabe · #18 03-09-2008, 03:59 PM

What I want to see is a whole aspect of Oddworld we never knew. Characterization, story telling, performance, a whole new demension of possiabilties when it comes to motion pictures.

Its going to be a new side of Oddworld that will amaze us all. The feeling I want, is to say to myself that I can go to this place and talk the characters, explore and be a part of Oddworld as much as the characters are. Thats the feeling I want out of OW2.0.

DarkHoodness · #19 03-09-2008, 05:57 PM

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Do you guys really have no ideas or hopes for OW2.0? I really thought people would have a little more hope for it...specially with the art we've seen. I mean I know that Lorne can probably handle things on his own, but that doesnt mean that it wouldnt be a good thing for us to think what could be posible in this revamped universe.

What I was going to say about this earlier (But I forgot) is that the whole future of OW hinges on how successful Citizen Siege is. If CS isn't successful, there probably will be no more OW.

As you all can probably guess from what I've said on other topics, I'm sceptical about OWI when they try doing new things because of what they did when they made Munch. Stranger was one thing they did right, I suppose, but it didn't sell well. I know that games and movies are two different things, and it may be a little pessimistic to say this, but maybe I'll have more hopes for OW 2.0 when CS comes out and is a definite success.

Tristan · #20 03-18-2008, 05:03 AM

Stranger might be in the movie... perhaps Stranger may even meet Abe!!! That would be cool wouldn't it?

Alector · #21 03-18-2008, 07:20 AM

Well... I think it wouldn't go, because the characters Stranger and Abe are two completely different epics. It is almost unimaginable, since their conditions are different from one another's.

DarkHoodness · #22 03-18-2008, 07:22 AM

Besides that, I think I read somewhere that Stranger wasn't included in the original quintology of characters. It'd be cool to see him in his own movie, but not with Abe. I'ma agree with Alector on this - Thinking about it, it'd be weird to see them together.

OddYouko · #23 03-18-2008, 07:38 AM

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What I was going to say about this earlier (But I forgot) is that the whole future of OW hinges on how successful Citizen Siege is. If CS isn't successful, there probably will be no more OW.

Don't say that. CS better be successful.

I just don't want to get all excited over CS and it turn out to be nothing or not so good.

DarkHoodness · #24 03-18-2008, 08:54 AM

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I just don't want to get all excited over CS and it turn out to be nothing or not so good.

It's not about it being good - I mean, look how awesome Stranger was.

I'm sure CS will be very good (even if it's ideals and settings seem to have been done before somehow, but that may not be a bad thing). It's just about whether it'll be successful or not and that people will like it enough for it to be one.