Munch's Oddysee PS2 beta

[Possessor]

I saw a video of Munch's Oddysee on the PS2, before it was released onto the Xbox. It looked much better than the current MO. It had sneaking in shadows, a slig smoking, and SoulStorm Brew! Why did they change consoles? This one looked so much better...

[DarkHoodness]

People often asked this back in the day. :P

It's because OWI thought that switching thier game onto a console with better specs would've been better for MO.

Unfortunately they didn't give themselves enough time to convert and re-develop MO properly from its PS2 roots, so they ended up selling us a concept for a game instead of an actaul game.

They also didn't consider that putting it onto one single console that'd become obsolete 6 years down the road would ensure that less people bought their game. Same mistake with Stranger. And probably one of the reasons they don't make games anymore.

I dunno about you, but I'd rather of had a finished game that was made for the PS2 and eventaully ported onto PC (I swear they'd of done it eventaully like they did with AO and AE if they didn't sign any of those stupid contracts with Micro$oft), rather then a barely finished, rushed game concept on a now obsolete game platform that is actaully an overpriced PC that thinks it's a console.

Nice job, OWI. *bitter*

[Nate]

And, what's more, those videos were not a beta, as you say. They were pre-rendered FMVs put together as an indication of OWI's goals for the gameplay. They were not real, completed, gameplay videos.

[Wil]

The Munch’s Oddysee we bought was still much better than it would have been on the PS2. Remember those videos were all done on a PC, and that the PS2 could not have generated as many realtime characters at the same time with such high polygon counts.

The move to Xbax wasn’t just meant to benefit MO, it was meant to benefit the rest of Munch’s lead role in the Quintology. OWI wanted to plan ahead and make a game engine that would support their next few titles (mainly Munch’s Exoddus; I think Hand of Odd had slipped off their developmental radar by the time of the move), and with the Xbox on the market, they didn’t want to do that on the PS2.

[Nate]

I seem to remember Lorne saying early on that the A.L.I.V.E.2 engine, with its whole environment simulation stuff that he wanted, would support Hand of Odd perfectly.

[Wil]

Yes, indeed. It was the engine that inspired Lorne to consider making an RTS‐like game out of it. My point was only that by the time OWI switched to Xbox that game was already drifting soggily further down their pipeline.

[Jordan]

How many times will people ask this question? So Hand of Odd will most likely be using A.L.I.V.E2? Would that mean it'd have similar graphics to MO, or would they enhance it?

[Wil]

It would have used the A.L.I.V.E.2 engine. It would have had virtually the same graphics, all the familiar species and vehicles and gameplay mechanisms. But we’re talking about a game that hasn’t been in development for at least six or seven years.

[Fuzzle Guy]

How many times will people ask this question? So Hand of Odd will most likely be using A.L.I.V.E2? Would that mean it'd have similar graphics to MO, or would they enhance it?

Why would you deliberately make out of date graphics?

[sam250]

They also didn't consider that putting it onto one single console that'd become obsolete 6 years down the road would ensure that less people bought their game. Same mistake with Stranger. And probably one of the reasons they don't make games anymore.

So, what you are saying is every Company makes games for consoles (which all become obslolete withing a 6 year period) are doomed for failure?

Yes, making it for one console was a mistake. Making it for one of the less succesful consoles was an even bigger mistake, not that they could predict that the origanal XBox wouldn't be a hit. But then again there are alot of companies make XBox exclsuive games and made a profit.

You can't blame it on the console of choice- blame that lack of adverising for that game, or the lack of people interested in a game that was sub-standerd.

I dunno about you, but I'd rather of had a finished game that was made for the PS2 and eventaully ported onto PC (I swear they'd of done it eventaully like they did with AO and AE if they didn't sign any of those stupid contracts with Micro$oft), rather then a barely finished, rushed game concept on a now obsolete game platform that is actaully an overpriced PC that thinks it's a console.

Nice job, OWI. *bitter*

Not a fan of the XBox, I see. However, I don't see why a contract with Microsoft would prevent them porting a game to the PC- Microsft makes the PC! And I assure you, the PS2 version wouldn't have been nearly as nice as the XBox version, let alone the Beta Videos, which were basically pre-rendered FMVs.

I do wish they had ported it to the PC, though.

[Wings of Fire]

Microsft makes the PC!

Microsoft makes Windows My PC was made by the good people at Packard Bell.

[OddworldTrash]

Microsoft makes Windows My PC was made by the good people at Packard Bell.

Packard bell screwed my PC up, my graphics card melted in a week of having it

On topic - I think OWI would have benefited alto more if they released games on the PS2, alot more people have a PS2 rather than an Xbox, therefor the games could have sold more.

[Bullet Magnet]

It's just too bad that the PS2 could not actually run Munch's Oddysee and that the porting of Stranger's Wrath was handled (or not) by Electronic Arts, not Oddworld Inhabitants.

[OddYouko]

Yeah if Munch's Oddysee was for the Ps2 I would have probably bought it a long time ago.

[Possessor]

Stranger's Wrath was also supposed to come out for the PS2 originally.

[Wil]

Not originally. Originally it was Xbox exclusive because OWI were still bound by the four‐game exclusive contract they signed when they moved to the Xbox. When Microsoft ousted OWI, this agreement was nullified, but the Stranger engine was already built to optimize the Xbox. That’s why the team EA assigned to port the game to PS2 found it such slow going, and EA got impatient and pulled the plug.

Way to go, Microsoft. Way to go, EA.

[Paul]

The xbox would have been cheaper and easier to develop for, so it would have been more logical for them to dev for teh xbox anyway, just a shame there isnt much market for xbox these days because of m$'s shoddy backwards compatablity..

[Kyle]

They better not pull any of that with the next game.

[Possessor]

If anyone wants to see the MO PS2 FMVs, here it is: ( Not made by me)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MjB1eeGIcfI

[DarkHoodness]

Hmm, maybe I should've responded to all of this earlier, but I couldn't be bothered 'til now. :P After all, it's whining over trivial computer game entertainment related stuff of little importance to many people that happened ages ago, but I still feel bitter, so I'ma rant about this.

The Munch’s Oddysee we bought was still much better than it would have been on the PS2.

Okay people, I want everyone to do me a huge favour: Define the word "Better" when it comes to computer games. Graphics don't mean a thing if the rest of the game wasn't done properly - Good games are games which are fun to play and entertain you, are consistent with themselves and keep impressing you each time you chose to re-play them (if you're that type of person).

What I meant with one of my earlier statements remains true: I would've liked a Munch that didn't break the ground graphically, yet still had a fantastic atmosphere and depth, which had proper music and sound effects, where the levels looked better and were well-designed, where the characters moved properly and did more than just swear at each other, rather than a better looking Munch that was exclusive to one console only, half-finished with dodgy-moving and stiff characters, that felt as if you missed something after you finished playing the damned thing.

Remember those videos were all done on a PC, and that the PS2 could not have generated as many realtime characters at the same time with such high polygon counts.

The move to Xbax wasn’t just meant to benefit MO, it was meant to benefit the rest of Munch’s lead role in the Quintology. OWI wanted to plan ahead and make a game engine that would support their next few titles (mainly Munch’s Exoddus; I think Hand of Odd had slipped off their developmental radar by the time of the move), and with the Xbox on the market, they didn’t want to do that on the PS2.

This quote says everything. PCs are much more powerful gaming platforms than consoles. I only talked about OWI sticking to the PS2, because they originally designed Munch for PS2. But just think for a minute - They could've written their game engine for the PC and made it modifiable for the consoles. A PC version of Munch and A.L.I.V.E 2 could've done everything OWI wanted to do without many constraints, then they could've done what Valve have done with Half-Life 2 and ported MO to X-Box, maybe even making a low-key version for the PS2 afterward. Then maybe they wouldn't of rushed Munch and it'd of been a better game.

Anyway, Ubisoft for example made Beyond Good and Evil to be ported to many different consoles. LionHead Studios made a PC version of Fable after releasing it on the X-Box first. Most great games aren't console exclusives, and I still think it was a very silly design decision. X-Box is out of date now, while the X-Box 360 is unreliable and with no backwards compatibility. How's that for a future in game design?

As for Hand of Odd, you all say that it went out of the window when OWI switched to X-Box development. How many RTS-type games are on the X-Box, anyway? I don't think I've heard of any. Of course I might be wrong, but I can't be bothered to do the research now. RTS games are better played with a Mouse though - Or maybe RTSs would work with that cool Nintendo Wii controller thingy. Still, I think that perhaps that's one of the reasons why they dropped it.

So, what you are saying is every Company makes games for consoles (which all become obsolete within a 6 year period) are doomed for failure?

Nah, I'm just saying that being console exclusive is a stupid development strategy unless you are or closely related to the company who built the console, but I mentioned it above in this post which I'm writing now. And I think I mentioned it a couple of other times in other topics, which is why I couldn't really be bothered to write my whole argument down. But you seem to agree with this anyway. :P

You can't blame it on the console of choice- blame that lack of adverising for that game, or the lack of people interested in a game that was sub-standerd.

---

Not a fan of the XBox, I see. However, I don't see why a contract with Microsoft would prevent them porting a game to the PC- Microsft makes the PC!

Maybe not, but I can blame their development decisions. And that's what I'm actually blaming, even if I'm not so clear about it. Munch was rushed 'cause of their decisions, something I feel bitter about. The fact that they did such an amazing job with Stranger proves that they could've done better, but I'm still annoyed that I can't play it on the PC and that no-one can play this amazing game on the 360, because of the decisions they made when they made Munch.

I actually think both the X-Box and the X-Box 360 are okay for consoles (except for the fact that the 360s break down a lot), but I still think their concepts are a bit ridiculous and that they both should of been made as Console PCs for people who want to plug their PC into the TV with a game controller without having to screw around with operating systems and shit, instead of them being made into a platforms by themselves. They're even separate from each other! And because they're so similar to a PC made by a company that makes crap for PCs, I certainly don't think that anything should be X-Box or 360 exclusive. This is why I don't like either of them so much, if you see what I mean.

And I assure you, the PS2 version wouldn't have been nearly as nice as the XBox version, let alone the Beta Videos, which were basically pre-rendered FMVs.

What I really think is that OWI should've thought outside the box and that Munch should've been made for the PC first instead of the PS2, but I explained that earlier in this post.

Anyway, that pretty much wraps up what I want to say, and what I've been wanting to say for a while about the whole thing. I know - It's pathetic how I care so much about it, but the OW franchise has always meant a lot to me since I discovered it back in '97, and I know it means more to many of you. It's such a shame how something as special and innovative as OW can go down the shitpan because of some stupid design decisions, and that's why I feel so strongly.

Still, thanks for reading this far anyway. :P

[Paul]

If they where pre-rendered videos, which they are it means they where created using 3dsmax/maya so they didn't design it for either console...

And most likely when they saw how much easier the xbox was to dev for than the PS2, it didn't take much to change their minds..plus with the extra power of the xbox compared to the ps2 it would have also made life easier for them.

Creating a game engine for a PC and porting to the xbox isnt too hard, but from PC to PS2 or XBOX to ps2, that takes a lot of doing if its pushing the current platform to its limits.

So of course this means it wouldn't be too hard to port Munch's Oddysee to the PC. OH and as for defining "better", how about a playable frame rate? I doubt it would have ran at 60fps on a PS2

[kin37ik]

they developed on the xbox for a reason, and that is because SONY was asking about $40,000 for a PS2 SDK, which is way to expensive for any kind of SDK

[DarkHoodness]

OH and as for defining "better", how about a playable frame rate? I doubt it would have ran at 60fps on a PS2

You missed my point. :P I'd of rather had a playable, memorable, atmospheric and done properly with time and effort Munch that didn't have such good graphics rather than the half-assed, rushed version that we got instead. Graphics do not always make a game. REPEAT: Graphics do NOT always make a game.

[Bullet Magnet]

But remember that Lorne was never just a game guy. He's a storyteller and an artist. Naturally, having chosen the game medium to tell these stories he'd want them to be visually and technically realised in the best way available to him.

Of course, the world business tends to stifle artistic tendencies.

[Nate]

You missed my point. :P I'd of rather had a playable, memorable, atmospheric and done properly with time and effort Munch that didn't have such good graphics rather than the half-assed, rushed version that we got instead. Graphics do not always make a game. REPEAT: Graphics do NOT always make a game.

You also need to remember that the advantage of the Xbox was not just graphics - it was also power, memory and the hard drive, which would/should have enabled much larger, more detailed environments - not just in their graphical detail but in the way that the player interacts with them.

[Wil]

Also, a larger number of characters behaving in the world at the same time.

[DarkHoodness]

So I'll go back to another one of my points since people keep missing what I'm saying:

If they were so concerned about fancy features in thier games, then why did they choose to develop for a crappy console and not develop for the PC first? Why did it not occur to any of them?

And I've explained about the advantages already. :P

[Wil]

I can’t recall any answer to this question from any interviews, but you know they did exactly the same with Abe’s Oddysee and Exoddus, developing it for the PS first, and then having Digital Dialects port it to Windows.

[Luskan]

I wouldn't say the Xbox was a crappy console, it had the power which they needed. I mean, at the end of the day in order to tell a great narritive with film like elements, you need to have a believable world, and graphics help this a lot. Its ok just saying graphics don't make a game, but graphics can immerse you in the story and world in the game - all helping to the beleivability of it all and creating a good game.

[Nate]

Coding for a console is much easier and more convenient than for the PC because you know the specs and can utilise them to the full. On the other hand, computer games must support an infinite number of computer configurations; power, memory, graphics, etc.