PANCAKE DAY!

[Wil]

if that was the case, we wouldn't have heard of spuds either, and many other things. i think when something has been in a country for well over 10,000 years, you can safely say it belongs there.

10 000 years ago, potatoes were confined to South America and weren’t even cultivated until three millennia later. They’ve only been in Europe for around 300 years.

[Bullet Magnet]

There's no sport in ridiculing these arguments.

[MA]

10 000 years ago, potatoes were confined to South America and weren’t even cultivated until three millennia later. They’ve only been in Europe for around 300 years.

i meant cattle, and i think you knew i did. your currently trying to match random internet website information with my years of earned practical experience in farming. good luck.

There's no sport in ridiculing these arguments.

explain, is that supposed to be sarcastic or helpful? i dont take kindly to people simply dismissing my expertise.

@ all 'eggheads': if you really want to 'test your strength', post your ingenious idea's here in the attempt to save Britain's failing Dairy Farming industry, rather than twisting my words in the attempt to make me look stupid. i'm sure the whole of the United Kingdom would appreciate it.

[Wil]

i meant cattle, and i think you knew i did. your currently trying to match random internet website information with my years of earned practical experience in farming. good luck.

@ all 'eggheads': if you really want to 'test your strength', post your ingenious idea's here in the attempt to save Britain's failing Dairy Farming industry, rather than twisting my words in the attempt to make me look stupid. i'm sure the whole of the United Kingdom would appreciate it.

No, I’m not. Stop being paranoid. BM is right, but bad habits are hard to, er, make into not being habits. And I’d tell you what you can do with dairy farming, but you’d find it painful.

[Alcar]

but you’d find it painful.

You're being terribly biased I must say.

Alcar...

[MA]

No, I’m not. Stop being paranoid. BM is right, but bad habits are hard to, er, make into not being habits. And I’d tell you what you can do with dairy farming, but you’d find it painful.

OK, i see your point, but then why did you have to finish with that ignorant comment?

if you'd of said:

No, I’m not. Stop being paranoid. BM is right, but bad habits are hard to, er, make into not being habits.

i would have apolagised and all would be well, but you couldnt resist.

just remember your talking to people not computer text, and perhaps give a little respect, seeing as it works both ways.

[Wil]

Assuming you’re not attempting some tenuous euphemism, I don’t know how to respond to that. I’m not even arguing a point.

[Bullet Magnet]

Ugh, fine.

Cattle were first domesticated in the Fertile Crescent of the Near East with the advent of agriculture. They would later be exported to neighbouring lands.

The wild ox native to Europe (Bos primigenius) was hunted to extinction several hundred years ago. A global study of genetic variation from cattle in India, the Near East, Europe and Africa showed that Indian cattle, Bos indicus, showed a much higher divergence from the rest (Bos taurus). African cattle are also quite distinct, but the variation in European breeds are similar to those of Near Eastern origin, evidence that they are imported and not bred from native stock.

Furthermore, the sequencing of the DNA from six bone fragments of the extinct native ox Bos pimigenius found in different archaeological sites in Britain are distinct from modern cattle but similar to each other. This shows that the first farmers bred only with what they had received from the east, and not with the local wild stock. Our cattle have not been resident to Britain for 10,000 years.

QED.


This is, however, pointless.


EDIT: But less so with dates, which I forgot.

First domestication: ~10,000 years ago.
Reached Cyprus: ~ 8,200 years ago.
Balkan Peninsula: ~7,800 years ago.
Germany: ~7,400 years ago.
Belgium: ~5,400 years ago.

Bradley et al 2005

[MA]

Assuming you’re not attempting some tenuous euphemism, I don’t know how to respond to that. I’m not even arguing a point.

i do apolagise, excuse my blabbing.

Ugh, fine.

Cattle were first domesticated in the Fertile Crescent of the Near East with the advent of agriculture. They would later be exported to neighbouring lands.

The wild ox native to Europe (Bos primigenius) was hunted to extinction several hundred years ago. A global study of genetic variation from cattle in India, the Near East, Europe and Africa showed that Indian cattle, Bos indicus, showed a much higher divergence from the rest (Bos taurus). African cattle are also quite distinct, but the variation in European breeds are similar to those of Near Eastern origin, evidence that they are imported and not bred from native stock.

Furthermore, the sequencing of the DNA from six bone fragments of the extinct native ox Bos pimigenius found in different archaeological sites in Britain are distinct from modern cattle but similar to each other. This shows that the first farmers bred only with what they had received from the east, and not with the local wild stock. Our cattle have not been resident to Britain for 10,000 years.

QED.


This is, however, pointless.

this proves my point. i just typed 'cattle origins' into google and this is the first site you see;
http://www.irishscientist.ie/2001/co...=IS01pages.xsl
same as above.

you missed these:

Cattle domestication was one of a series of far reaching innovations which took place in the region of the Fertile Crescent in the Near East about 10,000 years ago which together gave us agriculture. The wild ox was a formidable animal, and as well as meat and later, milk, provided the first beast of burden to early farmers. It is quite clear that sheep, goat and many of the plant species which were first bred in the Fertile Crescent were then directly imported into Europe as their wild ancestors didn't have a range that included this continent.

However, as the wild ox was a successful early European inhabitant until being hunted to extinction only several hundred years ago, it is an open question as to whether the ancestors of today's breeds came in a wholesale migration from the East or rather from local domestication.

We sequenced the same piece of DNA from six ancient bone specimens (thousands of years in age) from wild ox found in different archaeological sites in Britain. These were all clearly distinct from all modern cattle, and similar to each other – implying that first farmers bred with what they had received from the East

i meant cattle in britain, which stands for cows, Ox, and other bovine animals in this category. this info does not deny cattle inhabiting Britain for over 10,000 years, but does not prove it either. i'd say theres a good chance they did, as it says above;

Cattle domestication was one of a series of far reaching innovations which took place in the region of the Fertile Crescent in the Near East about 10,000 years ago...It is quite clear that sheep, goat and many of the plant species which were first bred in the Fertile Crescent were then directly imported into Europe...the wild ox was a successful early European inhabitant until being hunted to extinction only several hundred years ago...We sequenced the same piece of DNA from six ancient bone specimens (thousands of years in age) from wild ox found in different archaeological sites in Britain...first farmers bred with what they had received from the East

your evidence was biased, where as this is not: it does not say

cattle have not been resident to Britain for 10,000 years

. the evidence is before you, ive just highlighted the points proving my theory.

this is not meant to be callous, just discussion.

[Bullet Magnet]

You've highlighted stuff that did I put down.

The only reason I took out the other dates was because I was getting them from another source, which I had not put down before posted early accidentally, which I have already put back in (except the bone dates, which deleted by mistake). It depicts the spread of cattle across Europe from the East, which took considerably longer than, say, "instantaneously".

[MA]

ULTIMATUM;

as they would say in court: hearsay!

this discussion becomes void if no evidence of your claim is shown with the source.

[Bullet Magnet]

Bradley et al 2005

This is evidence. This is scientific publication standard citation, the Harvard style, and the highest possible representation of evidence in any forum, online or in scientific publications. Not only that, but the paper I have cited cites its own sources as well, many of which are also available on the PubMed site. My professors are very strict about Harvard citation, especially of published papers such as Microsatellite diversity suggests different histories for Mediterranean and Northern European cattle populations, Proc Biol Sci. 2005 September 7; 272(1574): 1837–1843. This is the very opposite of hearsay.

If you are holding me to some higher level of presentation of evidence, I am sorry, but this is as high as it gets, and I'm not about to muddle together some ethereal new standard of evidence presentation for a discussion about the origin of British cows in a thread about bloody pancake day.

[MA]

I'm not about to muddle together some ethereal new standard of evidence presentation for a discussion about the origin of British cows in a thread about bloody pancake day

you know, i was going to post another contradicting source, but your last line i found very funny, as in lol

hence my thought to call it a night: my bed is calling, and the sandman's standing 'ere tappin' his watch, looks pissed off. anywho, the keyboard isn't comfy so i'll bid thee a good night.

zzzzz

[Strike Witch]

Fuck, everyone knows that Pancakes were made by aliens in the American Wild West.

[Hobo]

Guys. Shut the fuck up.

Thread over.