Religion and Spirituality (yeah bitches)

Leto · #1 02-02-2008, 03:03 PM

I'm sick of all this shit, it's been going on far too long. Theres nothing but religion debates left right and centre, everyone thinking they're right and everyone else is wrong, it's hardly even about the belief any more.

I walk from the trainstation to my work every morning and theres always a crazed old man standing outside of the recently closed Sounds saying why God hates you and that you're not a good enough Christian, he actually spits on people and harasses them. You don't know how happy he gets when people takes his shitty pamphlets.

As for the other side of blind belief, spirtituality and the belief of ghosts. Yes there is something out there undeniabley, but it is in constant debate to what it actually is. Many religious beliefs completely reject the idea and shoot them down instantly as 'demons' or negative energies.

Personally I would wish that there was no belief at all, it would make life so much simpler. There are so many religions because man has the inconvenient stance of never being happy with what he's got and always wanting something more.

Say how you feel niggers, I'm keen for some other viewpoints.

MA · #2 02-02-2008, 03:19 PM

this all goes back centuries upon centuries, i personally think it's too late to change much religion-wise.

but i 'spose we could just try and 'get on' better (and i refer strongly to one particular religion at this moment in time), which sounds like it should be coming from a tree-hugger, and we know it wont happen anyway.

i think the phrase;
'if your up to your neck in shit, and someone flings snot at you, do you duck?'
comes into play here.

Strike Witch · #3 02-02-2008, 05:13 PM

MA, that's the most disgusting saying I've ever heard.

As for me, I really don't care. I'm deliberately antagonistic towards people who are strong believers in something, because if it really threatens their beliefs, they're not true believers anyway.

Havoc · #4 02-03-2008, 12:11 AM

I agree with SM on this one (big surprise

). Fortunately I've been seeing an ever growing trend at least over here in Europe where the young generation is being more and more ashamed to be religious. Give it another generation or two and religion will no longer be the most important thing on this planet.

Wings of Fire · #5 02-03-2008, 03:17 AM

I find religious nutjobs laughable but then again I also find bandwagon atheists who just pick the growing trend 'religion' because they heard it somewhere and wont keep an open mind on spirituality laughable.

I myself am agnostic but I will never try to change anyones views on god ever because in the end what really matters is your personal religion and ethical standards.

Hobo · #6 02-03-2008, 05:49 AM

I'm an agnostic theist. Look it up.

Yes, I believe in God, but I find it both annoying and sickening that people continue to try to impress their religion on others. No I don't believe that Jesus Christ was a prophet, so stop telling me I'm going to hell. Because I don't believe in that either

Sticker · #7 02-03-2008, 07:22 AM

Heeey ghost what a pleasant surprise

! Anyhow, religion stems back to the prehistory, explaining the unknown. Thunder, lighting (same thing right?), rain whatever. Depending on the culture and what your exposed to, aka climate, surroundings, animals et cetera influence the way the religion looks like. Over the years, due to more and more things being explained, fewer believe in religious stuff. The only things left are life, exsistence and death. Personally I think most religions are nonesense and are actually power hungry bitches. The Christiany for example, made people pay money to get to heaven. The church had an influence in politics. Until 1789, when the French Revolution occured, the kings were all said to be chosen by God himself and ruled by God's divine blablabla. Let's not get started about the Islam.

But, there are some non regular religions out there. Think ghosts, telekinesis, telepathy and other paranormal fenomena. This is a vid of Nina Kulagina, a russian telekinetic currently known for being the most reliable telekinetic in the world. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L61Rp...eature=related

Another freaky thing is telepahty, the abillity to control, broadcast or even stop thoughts. There are, however, no known claims of telepathy. A short exempt of my thoughts.

Bullet Magnet · #8 02-03-2008, 10:20 AM

For the new guys and amnesiacs here, I am an atheist, an a-sasquatchist, an a-paranormal-believing-guy and a conspiracy atheorist. I view reliable evidence as the cornerstone of all intelligent discussion and if there was one thing I would "force" upon other people (and that's something I am against) it would be for everyone to question everything presented to them that we take for granted as "fact". I promote using one's brain more than is appreciated by your respective authority.

Strike Witch · #9 02-03-2008, 11:26 AM

:

Heeey ghost what a pleasant surprise

! Anyhow, religion stems back to the prehistory, explaining the unknown. Thunder, lighting (same thing right?), rain whatever. Depending on the culture and what your exposed to, aka climate, surroundings, animals et cetera influence the way the religion looks like. Over the years, due to more and more things being explained, fewer believe in religious stuff. The only things left are life, exsistence and death. Personally I think most religions are nonesense and are actually power hungry bitches. The Christiany for example, made people pay money to get to heaven. The church had an influence in politics. Until 1789, when the French Revolution occured, the kings were all said to be chosen by God himself and ruled by God's divine blablabla. Let's not get started about the Islam.

But, there are some non regular religions out there. Think ghosts, telekinesis, telepathy and other paranormal fenomena. This is a vid of Nina Kulagina, a russian telekinetic currently known for being the most reliable telekinetic in the world. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L61Rp...eature=related

Another freaky thing is telepahty, the abillity to control, broadcast or even stop thoughts. There are, however, no known claims of telepathy. A short exempt of my thoughts.

Get some proper peer-reviewed Scientific papers behind that, and I'll believe you.

Leto · #10 02-03-2008, 11:42 AM

:

Fortunately I've been seeing an ever growing trend at least over here in Europe where the young generation is being more and more ashamed to be religious. Give it another generation or two and religion will no longer be the most important thing on this planet.

Nono, there are still thriving Christian youth groups over here (Release, Elevate etc), but the problem is that they are filled with idiots. I love the christians who believe they don't need to go to church to love God, but youthgroup goers are a different story. On the several occasions that I've been to them it has felt very cult like.

:

I find religious nutjobs laughable but then again I also find bandwagon atheists who just pick the growing trend 'religion' because they heard it somewhere and wont keep an open mind on spirituality laughable.

it is an annoying trend, yes... Personally I don't like completely unwaverable athiests as well. Ones if you pose them a new idea religion wise they will respond with a 'Haha you're dumb' kind of response because they completely reject any kind of religion, with a passion.

Sticker · #11 02-03-2008, 09:36 PM

Yea, it's like the Pope's summerhouse. What the hell does that guy need a summer house for!

Strike Witch · #12 02-03-2008, 09:46 PM

To live in during summer?

Havoc · #13 02-03-2008, 10:36 PM

No! To bring little kiddies.

:

Nono, there are still thriving Christian youth groups over here (Release, Elevate etc), but the problem is that they are filled with idiots. I love the christians who believe they don't need to go to church to love God, but youthgroup goers are a different story. On the several occasions that I've been to them it has felt very cult like.

I always find it enjoyable, if not laughable, to see people claiming they know how to interpret the bible better then anyone else, including the pope and god himself. Doesn't matter if god said Sunday is the day off, if they want to work on sunday they will. Doesn't matter that god said he wants to be worshiped in a church, we can love him from this lazy (much more comfortable) couch as well.
Christian hypocrisy is always so enjoyable.

Strike Witch · #14 02-03-2008, 10:40 PM

If God exists, I imagine him as some 12 year old playing Sim City.

He's getting help out of the manual, but his mate stuck his head in the window and asked if he wanted to come and play basketball down the road.

Figuring that the little people will be alright now that he's layed down the foundations, he runs out...

Forgetting to uncheck the "Random Disasters" box.

Leto · #15 02-03-2008, 10:45 PM

:

I always find it enjoyable, if not laughable, to see people claiming they know how to interpret the bible better then anyone else, including the pope and god himself. Doesn't matter if god said Sunday is the day off, if they want to work on sunday they will. Doesn't matter that god said he wants to be worshiped in a church, we can love him from this lazy (much more comfortable) couch as well.
Christian hypocrisy is always so enjoyable.

they're far more interesting people to talk to at least.

And everyone sunday they worship in the church of my pants instead.

MA · #16 02-04-2008, 02:58 AM

:

If God exists, I imagine him as some 12 year old playing Sim City.

He's getting help out of the manual, but his mate stuck his head in the window and asked if he wanted to come and play basketball down the road.

Figuring that the little people will be alright now that he's layed down the foundations, he runs out...

Forgetting to uncheck the "Random Disasters" box.

thats the most realistic definition of God i've heard!

oh how i chuckled...

Sticker · #17 02-04-2008, 09:45 AM

yea lol it rocked! And the fact we just added stuff like easter and stuff to Christian tradition. It's like soccer, it's not about the sport but about the people.

Leto · #18 02-04-2008, 10:37 AM

We didn't just add Easter you idiot. It celebrates the ressurection of Jesus.

Come on, even kids have Wiki.

Wings of Fire · #19 02-04-2008, 10:44 AM

The funny thing I always find about easter is the interchangeable date. What was the month the guy actually died/got resurrected in?

Sticker · #20 02-04-2008, 10:48 AM

Alright, Christmas then. I know, birth of Jesus. But the tree? Heathens.

Bullet Magnet · #21 02-04-2008, 12:11 PM

Predictably, I found several contradicting sources about the Christmas tree, taken from the same damn passage, no less.

According to Bibleinfo.com:

:

For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter.

They go on to say that this actually means carving an image out of the tree trunk, and that Christmas trees are fine.

According to the King James Bible page, which promotes, of all things, the King James Version of the Bible above all others (I despair, I really do):

:

Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3* For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4* They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

They helpfully explain that "matsad" has been both translated as "chisel" and "axe". Should "ets" be translated as tree or wood? To be honest I couldn't make head or tail of their particular stance on Christmas trees.

:

The customs of other people are worth nothing. Their idols are nothing but wood from the forest. They are made by a worker with his chisel...

:

They cut down a tree and carve an idol...

:

... it is but a tree which one cuts out of the forest to make for himself a god, the work of the craftsman with the ax or other tool

I should say that these last ones have all come from the KJB site, so I don't expect that it's particularly reliable.

From Bible.com:

:

Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Their interpretation is that because they do no harm nor good, and "be not afraid of them" they are fine, because evil is in the hearts of men, not trees. Sounds sensible. They then go on to vilify Santa Claus and claim that the Pagans have taken Christmas away from it's true Christian meaning (to say nothing about the ancient winter solstice celebrations).

Indeed, squabbling over the Christmas tree doesn't strike me as the best use of ones time nor necessary when there are more important things to deal with in and out of the Christian faith. But it makes about as much sense as anything else they squabble over.

Salamander · #22 02-04-2008, 06:49 PM

I'm a Christian, though several things annoy me about Christians (both young and old).
A) Fundamentalist Christians who refuse to accept (or hear anything about) any other theory than their own (which is usually evolution).
B) Christians (often youths) who try to disprove Evolution (usually in ridiculous ways, such as saying we can't have DNA because DNA is an acid and therefore we would dissolve).
C) Legalists. 'Nuff said.
D) Christians who preach (not literally) the Bible yet haven't read it, or haven't read a lot of it.

I try to respect other people's opinions, I never force my religion on others, people are allowed to believe what they want.

***Nate*** · #23 02-05-2008, 02:48 AM

:

The funny thing I always find about easter is the interchangeable date. What was the month the guy actually died/got resurrected in?

It's based on the lunar calendar, which is what was in use at the time he died/resurrected. The lunar calendar has 11 fewer days than the solar/Gregorian calendar so things swish back and forth a tad.

Sticker · #24 02-05-2008, 07:55 AM

Okay Bm, this is for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree.

Read it and weep, one of the sourches says PRE Christian! Older (and better) religions have already used a tree before. Yggdrasil for example, the tree that binds the nine worlds in Norse cosmology together. The tree was invented far after writing the bible.

"One Strasbourg priest, Johann Konrad Dannerstuart, complains about the custom as distracting from the Word of God."

Hows that? Some Christians were against the tree. My grandfather (ironicly strict Christian) refuses to have a Christmas tree in the house, saying it's anti Christian. Now you.

Wings of Fire · #25 02-05-2008, 08:07 AM

Wikipedia is nice but since any 10 yr old with half a brain can access and edit it a web search like BM did is more reliable in 95% of cases.

I would assume that Christmas Trees were incorporated into Christianity to try and find some common ground between it and the old Paganistic traditions the same way Satan was turned into the image of a Pagan God/Spirit to veer people away from it.

Bullet Magnet · #26 02-05-2008, 09:55 AM

:

Okay Bm, this is for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree.

Read it and weep, one of the sourches says PRE Christian! Older (and better) religions have already used a tree before. Yggdrasil for example, the tree that binds the nine worlds in Norse cosmology together. The tree was invented far after writing the bible.

"One Strasbourg priest, Johann Konrad Dannerstuart, complains about the custom as distracting from the Word of God."

Hows that? Some Christians were against the tree. My grandfather (ironicly strict Christian) refuses to have a Christmas tree in the house, saying it's anti Christian. Now you.

Yeah, I know that. That was my point- the conflicting interpretations and actual text of this one trivial passage that there is so much contention over.

In fact, the actual passages in the Bible themselves say that it is a pre-Christian custom, so don't go telling me that it is like it's some grand revelation. There's been some sort of misunderstanding here because your post, for its intended purposes, is somewhat redundant. I was playing off of Sticker's "But the tree? Heathens!" quip, kinda assuming that everyone had heard that there were Christians opposed to the idea.

The main point I was highlighting was the differences between the texts in English translations, which begs the question as to how any fundamentalist Christian could possibly believe every word of a translated sacred text. For some, I know the answer. There are many fundies who believe (astonishingly) that the KJB is the true book and that the "Original Hebrew" (their words, too!) is a derivative work. I've heard some calling for all other translations to be banned because of the errors that will occur in translation, demanding that all Christians read the English version.

When you encounter fundamentalists like that, you run. Just run.

Anonyman! · #27 02-05-2008, 10:28 AM

Being a strong supporter in "Leave People the Fuck Alone." political party, I wish to have no quarrel with anyone over your false and heretical beliefs.

Seriously, I, a Theistic Evolutionist, believe there is a higher power but do not now what it is like, what it is, or it's purpose for our creation. What I do know is that Higher Power doesn't hate gay people, abortion, premarital sex, and masturbation. But that's how I see it. If you side with the "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!" side, go right ahead. I personally think hell is reserved for stupid people. Like you.

Leto · #28 02-05-2008, 11:54 AM

I'm not an evolutionist since I'm an athiest, and I don't believe in the big bang either. Lol!

:

Okay Bm, this is for you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_tree.

Well, I helped one little forumite seem like he drinks forever from the fountain of knoweledge that is Wiki.

skillya_glowi · #29 02-05-2008, 06:02 PM

When it comes to other people, I don't really care who you worship as long as I don't have to hear about it. People who try and push their religion on others, whatever it may be, are just ridiculous in all their hopes trying to convert people in whatnot. You can be as extremist as you like as long as it doesn't affect other people (which usually doesn't happen).

Another thing I've noticed is devout Christians will always go and condemn certain groups of people: _________ are bad, ________ are bad, _________ will go to hell, and you will go to hell if you hang out with _________. But there's a famous part of the Bible that says "Judge not lest ye be judged." Ironic that people who consider themselves all flawless are actually such hypocrites.

Havoc · #30 02-06-2008, 11:15 AM

christians are very good at being hypocrites. Thy shalt not kill. Love thy neighboor. Thou shall forgive each others sins. They are so good at all that.

Anyway, the text in my siggy pretty much sums up how I feel about the entire thing.