Rescue methods for Queen Sam -

Zerox · #31 01-01-2007, 03:47 AM

With bees, normally new queen eggs hatch and sometimes kill the original queen and take over. But the original queen is needed to produce the egg for a new queen to hatch from in the first place.
About 10 Kintos carry Lady margeret around, so I'd estimate perhaps 20 or so are needed to lift Sam.

Jordan · #32 01-01-2007, 03:52 AM

Is Maggie like a snake? In the picture of her on the net she has a long body and loads of legs...

***Nate*** · #33 01-01-2007, 03:54 AM

There are two rather dissimilar images of Magagie: one where she's in the Magog conference room yelling at her lackies and one where she's on a sedan being dragged by Kintos. She looks different in each one and we don't know which one (if either) is canon.

Zerox · #34 01-02-2007, 01:02 AM

I presumed that the 'second' on was canon. Particularly thinking that her lungs were the same size as a Gabbits, they'd probably be in the front, smaller portion of her body. That design also had detailed facial characters etc., as well as other species being designed and implemented here, the Kintos and Gloktigi.

***Nate*** · #35 01-02-2007, 04:56 AM

Until we see it in a game on the shelf or a movie in the cinema, nothing is canon. For further reference on this point, see: "Toads, Scuba" or "Munch's Oddysee, The Entire Game".

***Xavier*** · #36 01-02-2007, 07:42 AM

yeah, it's a bit confusing, we're never sure when something is actually keeped by OWI or official

***Wil*** · #37 01-02-2007, 08:29 AM

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Until we see it in a game on the shelf or a movie in the cinema, nothing is canon. For further reference on this point, see: "Toads, Scuba" or "Munch's Oddysee, The Entire Game".

My favourite further reading on the topic: the history of Abe’s Moon.

Personally, given Lorne’s frustrations over what ideas and concepts he can realise with the technology available, I suspect that what’s canonical on Oddworld is more in line with what was intended for the games that what we actually get.

arkaznor · #38 01-02-2007, 07:21 PM

I just think that Abe should just sneak past the gaurds, and has sam lay other queen egg. That way Abe just has to sneak one egg away, not sam and all her mudokon.

SilverTwilight05 · #39 01-03-2007, 08:58 AM

Maybe Sam is too depressed to lay a queen egg? Or perhaps Mudokons are like bees, in that the larva needs to be given a special diet in order to become a queen, otherwise its just another worker. If that is the case, then as long as a young mudokon cannot be given that 'secret ingredient' there won't be another mudokon queen. But now that Abe has those labor eggs, perhaps all is not lost? (assuming that the natives know what that substance is, if any)

magic9mushroom · #40 01-03-2007, 04:12 PM

They need to rescue Sam because in ~20 years all the natives will certainly be dead. Which raises an interesting point - either there is another queen or the Cartel can't have had Sam for more than 40 years, as the natives were born in the wild, and are not more than 40 years old (give or take a couple).

My reasoning on the natives dying - Abe is 17 (I think) and was born in captivity. This means that the Cartel has had her for at least 17 years.A mud's life is 40 years, so in 23 years at most there will be no natives left (probably less)

***Nate*** · #41 01-04-2007, 04:35 AM

A worker mud's life is 17 years*. A queen's lifespan may be much higher, just like with bees and ants.

*EDIT: I meant 40 years. I've kept this mistake so Cullen doesn't sound silly below.

Zerox · #42 01-04-2007, 09:22 AM

Indeed.
I see your point about natives dying out...but many labour eggs have been stolen/kidnapped/rescued, and the queen is constantly laying new eggs.
20 years is plenty of time, though, surely?
Some natives may be from escaped Mudokons. I presume a fair few do escape, to either become natives or live in the cities, as has been said. Remember all those Mudokon corpses hanging on spikes in the stockyards of AO? I reckon a few did manage to escape. And there's far more factories to escape from than jsut Rupturefarms.
And finally, I have always presumed there's more than on Mudokon Queen. There's millions of bee and ant queens in Britain alone, each with a colony. Slightly less Mud queens, sure, but still a fair fiew. One queen alone doesn't seem a whole lot for a single species.

I estimate a healthy Mudokon queens life to be around 80-100 years. Maybe longer. Whales live longer, and Sam is pretty goddamn hefty, as well as being one of the more 'intelligent[/i] life forms (humans live longer than cats and dogs, etc.).

Cullen Heath · #43 01-04-2007, 10:59 AM

Okay, Nate if you say that the average life span for Mudokon workers is 17 years... does this include Natives aswell? I don't see why it wouldn't because I can't think of a reason besides abuse that would shorten the life of an inslaved Mud. Now, Abe was inslaved for most of his life, and so if he is 15, can this mean that he may only have a few more years to live? (scary thought...)

:

As well as being one of the more intelligent life forms (humans live longer than cats and dogs, etc.).

So do you think that maybe Sam would live much longer than Skillya?

***Nate*** · #44 01-04-2007, 03:45 PM

Sorry, I was referencing the wrong number in magic9mushroom's post. That was irrelevant to my point anyway; whatever a worker mud's lifespan is, the queen's is probably longer.

Cullen Heath · #45 01-04-2007, 03:51 PM

Ah, okay *phew* I was scared for Abe for a second.
And so by 'worker' you are meaning an enslaved Mud, right? Do you think it is the same life span for a Native Mudokon?

Cullen Heath · #46 01-04-2007, 08:41 PM

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Shrykull is in da factory.

Sorry to bring this up again, but what do you think this one is?
EDIT:Ahh, sorry that was a double post. I'm sorry about that.

magic9mushroom · #47 01-04-2007, 10:18 PM

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Indeed.
I see your point about natives dying out...but many labour eggs have been stolen/kidnapped/rescued, and the queen is constantly laying new eggs.
20 years is plenty of time, though, surely?
Some natives may be from escaped Mudokons. I presume a fair few do escape, to either become natives or live in the cities, as has been said. Remember all those Mudokon corpses hanging on spikes in the stockyards of AO? I reckon a few did manage to escape. And there's far more factories to escape from than jsut Rupturefarms.
And finally, I have always presumed there's more than on Mudokon Queen. There's millions of bee and ant queens in Britain alone, each with a colony. Slightly less Mud queens, sure, but still a fair fiew. One queen alone doesn't seem a whole lot for a single species.

I estimate a healthy Mudokon queens life to be around 80-100 years. Maybe longer. Whales live longer, and Sam is pretty goddamn hefty, as well as being one of the more 'intelligent[/i] life forms (humans live longer than cats and dogs, etc.).

There is canon that says that the Freed mudokons remain separate to the Native ones. This is (I think) because the Freed Industrials do not understand the customs of the natives, and the natives therefore do not accept them. I think there is also canon that states that Sam is the "only known" Mud Queen, and otherwise, or if they knew how to get more Queen eggs, the Industrials wouldn't bother with the Shrink, would they? They'd just get a new one. In any case, the Labor Eggs may well be used to supplement the Natives, presuming they are still viable, as Natives must be raised-from-birth.

On a side note, I believe OWI will choose to keep Sam's rescue as late as possible, as her rescue would deprive the Cartel and Conglomerate of laborers as well as guaranteeing the survival of the natives.

abe_munch_raziel · #48 01-05-2007, 07:48 AM

ı didn't play munch's oddysee.abe have a mother????

***Wil*** · #49 01-05-2007, 10:09 AM

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Sorry to bring this up again, but what do you think this one is?

That’s the concept art for the CG image. It’t of the same effect.

:

There is canon that says that the Freed mudokons remain separate to the Native ones. This is (I think) because the Freed Industrials do not understand the customs of the natives, and the natives therefore do not accept them.

Yep, but as Abe says, ‘the Mudokons were slowly coming together.’t

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ı didn't play munch's oddysee.abe have a mother????

Abe has a mother. All Mudokons have a mother: the same mother. Mudokons, Glukkons and Sligs are all super species, whose entire population is given birth to by a single individual female. The Mudokon queen is Sam. She was supposed to appear in Munch’s Oddysee, but she didn’t. It was just one of many things that were left out of the game due to time pressure.

Jordan · #50 01-05-2007, 12:37 PM

To me that's what let MO down a bit, damn, if OWI had more time they could've made MO a bit longer, but... I still like it how it is.

magic9mushroom · #51 01-05-2007, 02:25 PM

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Yep, but as Abe says, ‘the Mudokons were slowly coming together.

I think that's the free ones.You don't see any natives in that FMV, except in the bit with the hand on the moon, and I don't see any ex-employees there. Abe is sort of a connecting factor, as unlike most free mudokons he worked to adopt native customs, but is obviously revered by the freed employees.

Zerox · #52 01-06-2007, 04:11 AM

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To me that's what let MO down a bit, damn, if OWI had more time they could've made MO a bit longer, but... I still like it how it is.

It's Microsfot's fault for forcing the release date, so lets blame them! Burn, Mircrosoft, BURN!
...*ahem*
Anyway, the full average Mudokon lifespan has been verified at 40 years, Glukkons 50. But whether the Mudokon lifespan is based on slaves or antives, and whetehr the Glukkon lifespan is on a healthy indiviudal or a constant smoker, we don't know.
But anyway, this would mean by human terms, Abe is 35 years old or so.

:

So do you think that maybe Sam would live much longer than Skillya?

XD
As amusing as that is, I can't say. Skillya's size, production rate and health would affect this. She may also be overweight from eating many of her offspring, and whether she smokes or not, etc. We really can't say. I'd probably think the Glukkons keep Sam in good health, while Skillya has choice of donig what she wants, so I'd estimate Sam would live longer.

Jordan · #53 01-06-2007, 04:36 AM

Who would the Glukkons look after more, Skillya or Sam?
Think about it, they need to keep Skillya alive for her Slig offspring, and they need Slig workers to guard places...
And they need to keep Sam alive for the Mudokon slaves, if they abused Sam, she wouldn't be able to give off more babies...
I can see Skillya being a bitch, as the Sligs are really evil, and they probably gain it from her, and the smoking, card games etc.

Cullen Heath · #54 01-06-2007, 09:07 AM

I don't think that they have Skillya held captive at all. I think I remember hearing something about trade...?

Oh, and Zerox, Abe is 15 years old.

magic9mushroom · #55 01-06-2007, 11:34 PM

The lifespan of a Glukkon is 65 years, to parody the life expectancy of Earthly industrialised countries. The Mudoon lifespan is 40 years, to parody traditional societies eg Aborigines.

***Xavier*** · #56 01-07-2007, 12:03 AM

65 years? aren't we much much higher now

Zerox · #57 01-07-2007, 12:57 AM

The Glukkons can't look after Skillya, because she is no under their control. She is completely independant and does what sh likes, while Sam is controlled and kept imprisoned.

magic9mushroom · #58 01-07-2007, 03:02 AM

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65 years? aren't we much much higher now

70. In Japan it's 78 I think. Anyway I think it's pretty close to the 1980's-90's value.

Jordan · #59 01-07-2007, 03:08 AM

Okay, Gluks have a 65 year life span:
http://www.oddworld.com/firsttenyear...uck_stats.html

And Muds live for 40 years averagely:
http://www.oddworld.com/firsttenyear...abe_stats.html

Does this answer anyone's questions?

Cullen Heath · #60 01-07-2007, 06:53 AM

Beat me to it!