Conservation vs. Humans

[The Shadowman]

It becomes more and more obvious that the worlds greatest beings are humans, but they are also the worlds greatest destroyers. Working in animal shealters and working know at a wildlife preservation for wolves, foxes and coyotes (bascially the Canis genus) human greed and desire for their own perfect world does not leave alot of breathing room for animals.

I know this all sounds cliche but I have seen first hand accounts of abandoned pets and severe animal cruelity and it is no joke or just something you feel you only have to bad about when your watching Animal Planet. I use the wolf as a perfect reflection of humananity's foolishness and greed as justifaction. There have been no reported attacks by healthy wolves on humans that have ever been recorded. Yet humans want to annialate them because we have some wierd notion that they are going to kill are children. Wolves run from humans! and so foxes and coyotes.

One women came to the preservation once to tell us our practices were foolish, she insisted that wolves should be not aloud to reintroduce because of threat to livestock. I lost it with her and got right up in her face and told if it wasn't for you building that God damned ranch on wildlife property (which she legally didn't own) then their wouldn't be any problem would there. And if your complaining that your cattle might be in danger (which wolves would rarely approach anyway because of it nearness to humans) then you should consider that before you illegelly pilfered federal land.

The gaul she had for saying putting wolves back were they belong is incorrect but taking land from a wildlife group for her own perposes is okay. She ended having to dismantle the ranch and was charged $250,000 fine for it too.

Okay to stop this from turning into an essay, lets hear from you guys. I encourage all of you to work to do something to help those who cannot help themselves.

[Havoc]

I know exactly what you mean. I hear the same kind of stories from the exotic animal community all the time. Ofcourse, it isn't a matter of releasing a tiger back into the wild, but it comes down to the same kind of non-sense bullshitting from the neighboors about safety and life threating animals.

However, I hate the term 'We need to help those that can't help themselfs' when applied to animals. Humans are the most weak species on the planet. An average animal can help itself a lot better then most humans could under the same circumstances (no technology ect.).

But yes, animals need to make way for human progression, which is downright bullshit if you ask me.

Also, on a moderation note, your signature is way to big.

Havoc

[Bullet Magnet]

The world's greatest beings are actually bacteria. They can live anywhere, and evolve way faster. They will eventually win the evolutionary arms race and take back what once was theirs.

And arthropods are a close second. We are a bit crap in comparison, our brains being the only thing to shout about.

[Nate]

I learnt something interesting about viruses; the most evolved viruses don't even affect you at all. Think about it; a virus gets into your system, multiplies like crazy, makes you sick so that you die. It's pretty stupid, evolutionarily speaking - it has to hope that you infect someone else before it kills you. On the other hand, there are plenty of viruses that infect you, spread to every cell in your body but you'd never even realise anything was different. It's one of the leading explanations for the junk DNA in the human genome.

[Slig_Cake]

On a completely random note, who else has seen Ice Age? That movie makes me really patriotic about my species, the human race. We were the under dogs. We had no razor sharp claws or fur or strong gnashers, yet we survived through it all and have become the most dominant species. We can wipe out an entire species now. Why, we can even do it by accident some times. Hooray for us I say

What makes me even more proud as I chew on this steak sandwich, is that I am also male. I am one of the few beings in this world that can look down on every other species and say i am better than you

[The Shadowman]

So we destroy 12000 years of evolution in one single year, and thats cool. Another thing is humans are not truely rulers of this planet either. The planet is. The earth could rupture and kill us all. Also speaking besides human intelligence (which isn't so fantasic at all considering a uneducated human who has nothing to be taught is as smart as a parrot literaly because parrots have the intellegence of a six year old) humans are extremely weak, physically and with our sences. Most humans in the time of the Ice Age were more prey for animals like tigers and wolves, and bears then their masters. A creature so small as a fox has the ability to snap the neck of a human but they will run most of the time. Humans are only that smart because we build with our knowledge the same way the chimps learn to talk with symbols. Humans before the the final ice age where stronger then they are know. Science shows they had thicker bones, where stronger, and did not have the weird notion they control the world rather they felt part of it which we still are. It is amazing how many things about humans we draw from instinctive looks, like the attractiveness of someone is determined by the fertile-ness of that person.

[Nate]

Yes, good point; our superiority is not based on any physical characteristics but rather the collected knowledge that we have developed over the last five thousand years.

Imagine this: a meteorite wipes out all civilisation on the planet, including all cities and technology. All that is left is you and 999 other people of a similar intelligence and level of education. Do you think you would be able to restart civilisation based on your collected knowledge? What about if it's 1000 highly intelligent, educated people; do you think they would be able to rebuild the world based only on what's in their heads, without refering to any books (that would have been destroyed as well).

Do you even think they would be able to set the world on a path towards civilisation or would life quickly degenerate into a Dark Age?

[Slig_Cake]

Well I think that we'd stand a better chance than 20 million chickens having a crack at it.

I think our intelligence basically comes through our communication skills, and our communication skills have come through us being so weak as an individual, that we've needed others to help us. No species cares deep down for anyone else but themselves, but out of all the races we are the biggest team players. Finally, we are so strong because unlike others we can build.

The planet may rule us now, but our minds are evolving and soon we will top that too. There will come a time when meteorites smite the earth, but by that stage humans may have exhausted all the resources they've needed from it anyway and have all moved far away and created their own artificial planet, where we, only we govern its nature. Who's to say we can't stop meteroites? Who's to say we will never learn how to control gravitational force? This might seem unlikely, but do you think people in the middle ages would have ever thought that we'd be able to do what we are doing right now? Sending information to eachother via waves in the air?

sorry guys i'm getting all emotional about this,

We are the gods of this world. But I'm all for conservation and showing compassion towards other animals, because I consider it the right thing to do. But the next time you have a nice chicken burger, don't feel guilty about the chicken, think that this chicken has had its life sacrificed for the good of you. One of the gods in this world.

I guess this might seem hypocritical but the only thing I believe that can stop us is my own god. But that's of my own opinion and noone necessarily has to believe in a God. But believe this, you shit all over everything else.

[Nate]

I don't disagree with you... much. But what I meant is that although (as you said) we are builders as a species, we have become beholden to civilisation and the infrastructure we know. Individuals or small groups taken out of this context are unable to do much at all.

[Havoc]

Basicaly when technology is taken away, we are by far the weakest species on the planet in our size. We can get killed by a housecat if need be.

[Statikk HDM]

Hey, that reminds me of a joke.
How do you know a dog was fighting a cat?
He's scratched.
How do you know a cat was fighting a dog?
The cat is dead.
Anyhow, its not fair to say humans are the weakest species because without tech we'd be nothing. What the hell would a shark be without a big fat mouth with 100 teeth in it? Jack squat, thats what.
Survival of the fittest. Which is why I support conservation and the like, it helps the fittest(us) survive easier and more enjoyably.

[E'l Scrabino]

Indeed

[Slig_Cake]

The serious part of my posts was trying to get across the fact that because we can build technology, that makes us the strongest species. It dosn't matter how fragile we are. As long as we can develop weapons stronger than the teeth and claws of a bear, we'll always be on top.

And don't give me any of that crap "you take away all resources and we have nothing". Animals need resources too you know.

Actually I consider the Cat to be the most divine species of all. Simply because cats never work for man. You can make a cat be affectionate towards you, but it has no loyalties. You can't make it beg or fetch or play dead. And even without their master they'll still cope very well by themselves.

[Statikk HDM]

Bullhonkus. I've known plenty a mouser, Hell, I even trained one.
I've got a cat that answers to its name and sleeps at the foot of my bed. I've had cats with more stereotypical dog tendencies than my own lovable mutts Wiley and Mak. I think the most noble animal would be the pig. Family centric, smart, pretty clean when you give it more options than roiling in its own filth, tough(there are some boars that are pretty bad ass). Also really resiliant and adaptive.

[skillya_glowi]

I believe that humans are the masters of this universe. I'll post my essay on that here tomorrow

[Bullet Magnet]

We won't be true masters until we've spliced are genes with that of arthropods.

Hail our insect masters! All Hail

Because if we don't, someone else will. The insects, for instance.

On cats, I don't know a single person who bought their cat.They just turned up and that was that. Meanwhile there is a five year old somewhere crying her eyes out, who won't be able to trust someone emotionally again for the next 20 years.

I'm not a cat person. Except when I visit Egypt.

[Havoc]

Survival of the fittist, yes. Survival of EVERYONE?! NO! You know the reason why this world is becoming so overpopulated? Because we are not letting nature do it's job of killing off the weak part of the species.
For instance (and you may hate me for this if you want, but it's the cold hard truth) someone who is mentaly disfunctioned and lives in some home his entire life is of no single contribution to this planet, species or even our society. Why 30 year old people that have the intelect of a 3 year old are allowed to live is beyond me.

Thats just one example.
And statikk, those are an animals natural defence meganisms! It's a part of their body. I don't see a shark coming at me with a semi automatic assault rifle? An animal's natural defence against a human's natural defence = Animal: 1 - Human: 0.

Even if you took the defences away from the animal, lets say a tiger (yay).
If you were to take away the razorsharp claws and the huge teeth, a tiger can still slap you completely silly and there's not jackshit you can do about it.

Conclusion. We are not the strongest population on the planet. We are not the smartest or the fittist. We are arogant in thinking that we are.

[Bullet Magnet]

That brings up my next point on genetic screening: we need to start eliminating genetic diseases in babies by screening them. Yes- I know this can lead to horrific future visions of designer supermen and racial elimination, but many of these ideas are unlikely. The strictest rules and laws sholud stop this, as long as there is not simply a long, slow slide into such a dystopia.

But with all our treatments of people unfortunatte enough to suffer these diseases, the genes are becoming more prevalent. By no means do I suggest that we not treat these people, but unless we can find long term solutions then we will be the architect of our own extinction.

Most age-onset diseases wouldn't have ever shown themselves in the wild as we would not live long enough, but other diseases... if civilisation fell then we would be unable to care for afflicted persons, and we would die out.

It's a tough call, but someone has got to make it.

[skillya_glowi]

Survival of the fittist, yes. Survival of EVERYONE?! NO! You know the reason why this world is becoming so overpopulated? Because we are not letting nature do it's job of killing off the weak part of the species.
For instance (and you may hate me for this if you want, but it's the cold hard truth) someone who is mentaly disfunctioned and lives in some home his entire life is of no single contribution to this planet, species or even our society. Why 30 year old people that have the intelect of a 3 year old are allowed to live is beyond me.

Thats just one example.
And statikk, those are an animals natural defence meganisms! It's a part of their body. I don't see a shark coming at me with a semi automatic assault rifle? An animal's natural defence against a human's natural defence = Animal: 1 - Human: 0.

Even if you took the defences away from the animal, lets say a tiger (yay).
If you were to take away the razorsharp claws and the huge teeth, a tiger can still slap you completely silly and there's not jackshit you can do about it.

Conclusion. We are not the strongest population on the planet. We are not the smartest or the fittist. We are arogant in thinking that we are.

I agree completely. About the mental dysfunction part. However, the last part is controversial. I always envisioned an Alpha Centauri sort of society (minus the mind worms, that is). I think I can safely say that we are the most intelligent on Earth, at least. The fittest? I would also say yes. We have a large brain capacity, opposable thumbs, and things like that. We took a long time to evolve, but I think Nature did its job jolly well.
Take the tiger example, for instance. There is plenty of jackshit that you can do on that part...tranquilize the tiger...is probably the most, um, humane, but there are lots of other methods.

P.S. I couldn't post my essay yesterday, because the videocard died on the computer it was on, and I have yet to replace it. Stupid computer.

[Dusan]

"Basicaly when technology is taken away, we are by far the weakest species on the planet in our size. We can get killed by a housecat if need be."

Basicaly yes, but to create tehnology, we need inteligence, wich is our defence mechanisam [spelling?]. Some species have speed, streight ...

...what is the fittest?

[Havoc]

Skillya: I meant without the aid of technoligy at out side .

[skillya_glowi]

Then I agree. But, as Dusan said, intelligence is our defense. Even prehistoric humans scared away predators with torches.