Should Homosexual Couples Be Able To Adopt? -

MojoMan220 · #61 01-25-2006, 08:19 AM

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I think not. Actually I read my Bible as much as possible, and if you believe that I fail then you're completely wrong. Let me give ya a few examples:

In Leviticus Chapter 20:13, there ya got the law.
Then ya got Rom 1:27-32, and last Matt 5:17-18.

Instead trying to articulate my reasons for why I believe you're wrong, I'll steer you in the direction of a website that does a far better job:The Bible and Homosexuality

***Nate*** · #62 01-25-2006, 10:31 AM

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Nate- I hope you know that I was merely pointing out what it says in the book and not a personal belief.

Yeah, I realised.

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You answered exactly the way I asked you not to. Why is it unnatural? Why is it wrong? All you said is because god said so. Try again. And if you can't come up with a REAL reason then you need to reevaluate your belief structure.

You're missing the point of religion. The fact that God says something is reason enough; man is not capable of understanding God's reasoning, though he may try.

I think a better question to ask Dancing Steef is why she takes the indictment against "a man lieing with another man..." so seriously but ignores all the other laws in Leviticus. And before you answer, read the link in MojoMan220's post, particularly the bit on Leviticus this page: http://www.truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html.

OANST · #63 01-25-2006, 10:38 AM

I did read it. Most of it made sense but there were areas where they were obviously interpreting it to their own ends. They decided that it didn't mean that so they twisted it to not mean that. The verse about a man lying with a man as a man lies with a woman is pretty straight forward. It obviously refers to homosexuality. And no, I do not miss the point of religion. The first rule of every religion is don't ask question. Believe me, I know that. But I can't stand the idea of just believing something is bad without having any idea why. Most of god's rules at least make sense. I don't necessarily agree with them but I understand them. Others are just completely random.

***Nate*** · #64 01-25-2006, 10:47 AM

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But I can't stand the idea of just believing something is bad without having any idea why.

Whis is why I said you don't get religion

. To be a religious person you have to be able to accept these things.

This is me speaking as a not-particularly religious person here, just so you know.

And I meant that Dancing-Steef should read the website and respond, not you.

AquaticAmbi · #65 01-25-2006, 01:30 PM

I must say, I agree with Nate's statement that tolerance towards someone like DS's religion needs to be reinforced. I mean, make your points against it if you disagree (like I do)... But you don't have to be so nasty about it. =/

I believe that homosexuals should certainly be allowed adoption rights. Most of my points have already been made by other people, but I'll still state a few.

A child with two mothers is much better than a homeless child with no one. Furthermore, I was raised by a single parent, and I turned out fine without a father figure.

DS, I find the typical argument that "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" to be a little silly. Because if God made everyone, then God made Steve too... Now, whichever person--Steve or Eve--Adam digs, I think he should be able to marry her or him.

Furthermore, I think the banning of adoption by gay people is completely unfair to the male sex. A lesbian can easily obtain fertilization through a sperm bank, but men obviously do not have this choice.

***Nate*** · #66 01-25-2006, 03:17 PM

Devil's advocate: doesn't God make Gary the pedophile as well?

AquaticAmbi · #67 01-25-2006, 06:26 PM

Well... That's something I honestly don't like thinking about.

But for the sake of discussion, let's say pedophilia isn't just a disorder and is seen more like homosexuality. The important question is "Will any harm be inflicted upon someone if a person acts upon the attraction?" In a normal homosexual relationship, both partners are around the same age/of the same emotional maturity and able to consent with enough knowledge of what their actions mean: consequences, understanding of the relationship, etc. As for pedophilia, harm to a child could definitely happen. So... again for the sake of discussion and not a belief I necessarily claim, perhaps the most important thing created by God is choice. The choice on acting upon healthy attractions and not acting upon harmful attractions.

SeaRex · #68 01-25-2006, 06:33 PM

I believe that homosexuals are innately born with their desires and tendencies. However, I believe that pedophilia is an acquired trait.

I say this having not studied either subject in the least bit.

Döbblyüw · #69 01-26-2006, 09:06 AM

Gay's should be able to adopt and raise however they want! I've got gay, bi and lesbo homies so it doesn't bother me what they do!

OANST · #70 01-26-2006, 09:20 AM

Well, maybe you aren't completely cracked out. Just mostly.

Döbblyüw · #71 01-26-2006, 09:31 AM

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Well, maybe you aren't completely cracked out. Just mostly.

Well....... Hot diggity DAMN! Your not the only one who has ever told me that!

Dancing Steef · #72 01-27-2006, 01:56 AM

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You answered exactly the way I asked you not to. Why is it unnatural? Why is it wrong? All you said is because god said so. Try again. And if you can't come up with a REAL reason then you need to reevaluate your belief structure.

...I jus' told ya me answer, but if ya incists then I might give ya an metaphor as "the new" answer.

Lets say that you and one of yer buddies are taking a walk out in the forest. Suddenly you find a brand new car. You are beginning to think; How did that car get there? Yer friend's looking for a manual about how this car works and find one after some searching. He/she reads it and began to understand how this car works. After reading the manual you asks yer friend how it works, he/she explains it to you, but then you ask; How do YOU think it works?
Yer friend doesn't have any other answer on that question, cause he/she only believes on what he/she just have been reading.

So when you ask me "Why do YOU think it's unnatural?" Then I say; I believe it's unnatural, because it's forbidden in the Bible and that's My answer.
You can't expect me to 'believe' something else when I already believe in God's word, The Bible - 'The manual' of living a life near God.

As the car has a developer, then it's the same with us- Humans. Or do ya believe that we 'by a chance' excist? The car itself couldn't have jus' got there of a coincidence? I think not...

if this vehicle has been developed by someone, then it has to be a masterplan behind it , how it works what it's used to do and so on. I believe that God had a masterplan when he created Humans as well - how THEY'RE working and what the Humans are about to do...

If ya have any more questions about this, then PM me or else the thread would get a bit more off-topic.

~DS~

OANST · #73 01-27-2006, 06:43 AM

Okay, but all of the machine parts of a car have an obvious reason for being there. You can see that when part a does this it causes part b to do this. Most of the laws in the bible are the same way. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife- This leads to envy and hate and an all around unhappy life. But what evil does loving someone of the same sex cause?

AquaticAmbi · #74 01-27-2006, 07:47 PM

The common belief of sex before marriage.

'Cause gays can't marry.

Rich · #75 01-28-2006, 02:21 AM

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The common belief of sex before marriage.

'Cause gays can't marry.

And now they can! Humanity be saved!

DS, maybe if they'd based the religion on a car manual, the world would be a happier place.

***Nate*** · #76 01-28-2006, 12:47 PM

Heh, no longer do we drink wine and eat wafers to get closer to God; now we just change the oil and pump up the tyres.

Question for British people: someone told me that gay marriage was legalised in there. Is that true? Is it the same (legally speaking) as straight marriage or is it only a limited deal?

Rich · #77 01-28-2006, 12:52 PM

It's 'a legal bonding'. They can be recognised as next of kin and suchlike now.

***Nate*** · #78 01-28-2006, 12:56 PM

Does that count for immigration, insurance and suchforth?

Rich · #79 01-28-2006, 12:57 PM

I'm not sure really, nor am I sure what rights straight couples get...

Your own research would be necessary.

Dancing Steef · #80 02-01-2006, 01:03 AM

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Okay, but all of the machine parts of a car have an obvious reason for being there. You can see that when part a does this it causes part b to do this. Most of the laws in the bible are the same way. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife- This leads to envy and hate and an all around unhappy life. But what evil does loving someone of the same sex cause?

According what I believe in, then God is the creator of the Humans and we're created to be God's image. And God wants us to follow and become more like him, but He gave us a choise to do what we think is best for us. I personally choosed to follow Him, because I think His the right way in my life.

But the opposit to God - Satan; he hates God and wants to destroy him, but he can't cuz God's too strong for him and can't be defeated. So instead of trying to defeat God - which's impossible - he tries to 'defeat' God's image - us humans.

Let's give another example:

A woman hates a man. She really wants to kill him, but she's too weak and tiny to do that so she lets him be. One morning when the newspaper arrived she reads it and suddenly she sees the man on a photo. With deep anger the woman destroyes the photo with ease.

So to make a long story short... I believe that Satan tries to change our whole life by temptations and agreedments, to make us fall into his trap and end up dead. And Homosexuallity is one of them. I don't think that Humans all of a sudden get homsexuall by themselves - Satan must have tried to temptate them to become homosexuall and for that matter he must have succeded.

~DS~

salty pretzils · #81 02-01-2006, 05:59 AM

Wows rexy, I love you :P
Anyway, I have a brief point I'd like to make here. Several members have said that we have to consider the way children of gay parents would be treated at school, right?
So if you're going to condemn gay adoption over this, what about the children of people with Down's syndrome? Autism? Children with parents of different races? Heck, what about children's teachers? O_o
Three points if you spot the sarcasm.

OANST · #82 02-01-2006, 06:02 AM

DS-You need to stop presenting opinions as facts. And once you've done that you need to fact check your opinions. Homosexuals are temptated by Satan? No.1-because I feel like being a jerk I'm going to point out that temptate isn't a word. No.2-Do you know what the highest suicide rate is in America? It's homosexual christians. They can't change who they are and since they believe that what they are is pure evil they fall into a well of self hatred. If they could change this, don't you think they would? But that isn't the point. The point is why should they? Who does it hurt? If you can tell me who or what homosexuality hurts then I will be more than happy to join your anti-gay movement. But you can't. Your only answer is (and I quote) "derrrr, cause god said so". If you don't know why something is wrong and yet you believe it is then that makes you very stupid. Very, very stupid. I don't think your stupid so come up with a reason, please.

Dipstikk · #83 02-01-2006, 08:26 AM

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And now they can! Humanity be saved!

yeah, now all we need is for this country to get with the program. ****ing Bush and his ****ing homosexual-hatred. What right is it of his to impede on the rights of Americans? Not everyone in the country is in this little homophobic bubble with him, and not everyone is a bible-thumper.

T-nex · #84 02-01-2006, 09:14 AM

One thing I don't get is why the hell people use the bible as a law. And why Homosexual marriage is forbidden at all. I mean c'mon, not everyone share the Bible's point of view on Homosexuals. If not because of the Bible, then why should Homosexuality be illegal? As said by many other here, it doesn't harm anyone.
It annoys me so much that people are trying to force their religion's pint of view on other.

Anyways, i really think that gays and lesbians should be allowed to adopt a child. Not all children with homosexual parents get picked on. But i don't know haw many and stuff, so umm yea...

OANST · #85 02-01-2006, 09:30 AM

Plus, "they'll get picked on" has to be the dumbest argument known to man. You show me a kid that hasn't gotten made fun of and I'll mail you a rainbow.

Rex Tirano · #86 02-01-2006, 09:48 AM

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Wows rexy, I love you :P

Milz me ol' hartey! You never told me you posted you slimey sea-dog. Yarr, avast and what have ye. [Pirate love fo'evuhz <3] But I thought you'd like this thread, when I posted this I thought about you and how you'd love to have children one day with your lover.

I agree with OANST, of course a child may be picked on due to their parent's sexuality but who hasn't been bullied for one reason or another? There've been plenty of articles in magazines [Sugar and whatnot] as Gay couples marriage has been legalised, about people who have gay families and who love them and such. As long as you love each other what does it matter?

- Rexy

***Nate*** · #87 02-01-2006, 10:00 AM

And perhaps even, once kids see that their friends have gay parents and/or they visit their friends houses and see that homosexuality is not as creepy/wierd/dangerous as they've been led to believe, then there will be significantly less teasing both of children of gay couples and of gay kids themselves.

Or to put it another way: this may confront kids to rethink their attitude about homosexuality when they actually meet and get to know some gay people rather than just laughing about the strangely dressed people on the train.

Havoc · #88 02-01-2006, 02:56 PM

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Plus, "they'll get picked on" has to be the dumbest argument known to man. You show me a kid that hasn't gotten made fun of and I'll mail you a rainbow.

Heck, if you have two realy hot women for parents, you might even get a shitload of respect from most the guys in your school XD.

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yeah, now all we need is for this country to get with the program. ****ing Bush and his ****ing homosexual-hatred. What right is it of his to impede on the rights of Americans? Not everyone in the country is in this little homophobic bubble with him, and not everyone is a bible-thumper.

Hm, question! Is there anything about homosexuality, religion, or sexual preferance in the constitution? Cuz if there isn't (or depending on what it says), then Bush doesn't even have the right to say the things he's saying, or to make the laws he's making.

T-nex: In America, the bible IS the law. Although more and more people start to see that a 2000 year old book might not be such a good thing to follow anymore...
A while ago a news channel here in the Netherlands had a series about America and it's (in our eyes) extreme sides. One episode was about religion, noting a lot of the bad sides (it gets in millions of dollars, ect) but also stated that religion goes very deep in America. It's what the country is build on. But most of us in Europe can't seem to understand that, because most of the countries around here have such a heavy religion regiem.
But dispite that, I still think America takes their religion way to far. It's just a book, a dusty old book...

used:) · #89 02-01-2006, 04:22 PM

America's law is not based on the bible. I can tell you that. Wehn our constitution was written, it was intended NOT to side with religion. It's the ****ing republicans which have let business slide in with government and weakened the separation between Church and State.

salty pretzils · #90 02-02-2006, 01:17 AM

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Milz me ol' hartey! You never told me you posted you slimey sea-dog. Yarr, avast and what have ye. [Pirate love fo'evuhz <3] But I thought you'd like this thread, when I posted this I thought about you and how you'd love to have children one day with your lover.

- Rexy

Hell yeah. Just cos yer sexy :P

Anyway. The Government can't write its predudices into law anymore, but what it can do is preserve old laws that do the job for it. Look at the Age of Consent in England--if that isn't predjudice, then I'm a mongoose.
But the point I'm making here is that although homosexual adoption is technically allowed, you can bet your sweet arse that the authorities won't make it an easy ride. We can preach tolerance until we're blue in the face, but until these blocks are removed we can't realy have a society of equality.
Oh yeah, speaking of America's constitution, which everyone seems to be so proud of--doesn't that preach equality?