Holocaust...or...Holohoax? -

Jacob · #61 07-22-2005, 04:17 PM

Who believes that, exactly? The same people who believe KKK members cannot be Black? The same people who believe Satanists worship the Devil? The same people who believe that you'll go to Hell if you even so much as enjoy life's finer offerings? Or is it the Jews who are secretly controlling the world from behind the scenes?

soulstice · #62 07-29-2005, 03:40 AM

Firstly Jacob, I don't think you can advocate ANY aspect of Neo-Nazi beliefs just because you have some 'nice' friends (even though their Hitler views do seem extremely backward and inappropriate for today's society.) Neo-Nazi beliefs are all wrong. Their views shouldn't be tolerated by anyone. Maybe they did stick up for you one day, but it's no excuse to be mingling with people that clearly display backward views that are laughable at in today's world. They still feel a superiority complex over other races whcih is ridiculous. We're all equal, and idiotic Neo-Nazis need to realise that.

Secondly, in response to Al's post about not forgetting the Native American struggle-What about the Cambodians and Pol-Pot's Khmer Rouge? What about the Delhi and Amritsar massacres caused by the British, and the millions of lives that they are accountable for by dividing parts of India into Pakistan and Bangladesh? What about the Congolese, Rwandan, Sudanese, Zimbabwean, Somalian, Ethiopian and Eritrean massacres happening every week?

There's so much more to mass murdering than we care to open our eyes too. When I arrived in Kenya two weeks ago, there were news reports of 281 people being killed two miles north of the Kenyan border. No one talks about the day to day attrocities Africa faces and it's sad. At the end of this year, over twice or thrice as many Africans as Jews killed in the Holocaust will die of starvation, sickness, HIV/AIDS, millions of preventable diseases and corrupt Governments demanding mass murders of a certain tribe or people. Okay, maybe not all of these people have their suffering inflicted by a dictator, but they do suffer immensely and that does count, doesn't it. These people die from the common cold and ridiculous diseases like cat flu. Okay, maybe a few hundred thousand or million people starved to death in concentration camps. It's sad because they didn't need to, but Africa could surely match or beat that number in the matter of a few weeks.

At the end of the day, the Holocaust of yesterday saddens me, but the plight of Africa today is so much worse.

Statikk HDM · #63 07-29-2005, 09:57 AM

I thought we were talking about the holocaust. While the plight of Africa and the Indians saddens me, it doesn't have a lot to do with the subject.Speaking of which, have you ever heard people saying the Holocaust was karma kicking the Jewish people in the ass? In the OT times God commanded them to commit genocide on numerous occasion, in fact he even punished them because they did not totally wipe out the Canaanites and the Philistines. Also, some say it was payback for the crucifixion, since a verse of the Bible says some Jews said "Let the blood of him(Jesus) be on us and on our children to the third and fourth generations(not literally, a figure of speech meaning a very long time)."

Jacob · #64 07-29-2005, 10:28 AM

'I don't think you can advocate ANY aspect of Neo-Nazi beliefs just because you have some 'nice' friends'

At the time there was a severe lack of interesting topics, at least this one threw up some interest. Secondly, why is it wrong for me to post a controversial topic and not anybody else? Thirdly, what's the point in having a go at me for being open-minded, no matter what the cause? Did anybody else have a go at Dino for mentioning children should have relations with each other? No. And so until you do, i hardly think you can have a go at me.

Finally, i make friends with people for who they are, not for what they believe or what they say/do. I've known one of my friends before he was a Neo, now, you imagine one of your nicest, sweetest friends and then imagine them turning to Neoism...would you be all "Get out of my face!" for something as silly as that.

'We're all equal, and idiotic Neo-Nazis need to realise that.'

We aren't though.

'but the plight of Africa today is so much worse.'

If God wanted to save them, God would do something to do so. Not my personal belief, but i s'pose it could be given some credence.

Dino summed it up perfectly in the Live 8 thread, these people need agriculture, not pity-money. I, personally, find it sickening that we don't intervene in the deaths that these people face, but let's face it, neither would us if you attempted to do so and then got called a 'War criminal' by all the anti-war people.

If i was Blair and that happened to me, i'd publically tell everybody bitching about other countries genocide to go mount themselves after the way they treated me after Iraq. Saddam was a vile man, who killed his own people and wiped out a nearby village. The people of Iraq can now vote and speak their minds without worrying about being put in a woodchipper feet first, but everybody seems to forget that, just because the war turned up no WMD's.

Sudanese being massacred? Tribes being wiped out? Genocide being commited? You lot said bitched about us entering Iraq, you made your blood-soaked beds, now you can lay in them.

soulstice · #65 07-29-2005, 12:39 PM

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I thought we were talking about the holocaust. While the plight of Africa and the Indians saddens me, it doesn't have a lot to do with the subject.Speaking of which, have you ever heard people saying the Holocaust was karma kicking the Jewish people in the ass? In the OT times God commanded them to commit genocide on numerous occasion, in fact he even punished them because they did not totally wipe out the Canaanites and the Philistines. Also, some say it was payback for the crucifixion, since a verse of the Bible says some Jews said "Let the blood of him(Jesus) be on us and on our children to the third and fourth generations(not literally, a figure of speech meaning a very long time)."

You need to read the post carefully. I did explain how the post was disassociated and also associated with the topic, in terms of death. Otherwise, I did differentiate the post from the topic.

Oh, and I see where you're coming from Jacob.

used:) · #66 08-01-2005, 07:01 PM

I really really really REALLY hate to say this Soulstice, but I have to agree with Jacob on the inequality statement he's pointed out. You see, we are all CREATED equal, but we become better than others at certain things. Some people are more knowledgable than others, some people are stronger than others, some are more musically talented than others, some can draw better than others. I believe this because what if we WERE all equal in ways of skills and talents? It's these small imperfections and inequalities that make us unique in our own ways.

Rich · #67 08-07-2005, 02:06 AM

I think Jacob means equal in terms of rights and such like not talents.
It's clear that we aren't equal in terms of rights and opportunities, I think Soulstice means we SHOULD be equal, not that we are.

LoboDiabloLoneWolf · #68 08-09-2005, 06:42 AM

It's not right to force one's views onto other people, so I'm not going to try but this is a discussion so I will say something.

A lot of provocative stuff has been said here and by that I mean thought-provoking. I don't want to label, insult or offend anyone, and if I do I apologise.

Some of the stuff here I agree with and some of it I don't. However, we all have a right to speak our minds, but not necessarily put massacres and such as freedom of expression.

We have to face this one fact;

No matter who you are, or where you come from, somewhere in history (and I mean general and not personal history here guys) some form of monstrosity of varying degrees has occured, caused and suffered by every nation and people. We can't change that, so why can't we (again I mean 'we' as in mankind) aplogise for past wrongs, learn from it so it doesn't happen again and move on with life?

Lastly I just want to say that there is no excuse for massacres, freedom of expression or otherwise, nobody has the right to take someone else's life. Now I could go on a religious rant here but I won't, I'll just say that these people who have done hideous wrongs will get what is coming to them.

Jacob · #69 08-09-2005, 11:39 AM

It has to be said, Karma does come right back around and beat the people who deserve a beating with an excretment covered stick. I've witnessed this on several occasions.

I have.

used:) · #70 08-09-2005, 01:54 PM

Okay, who is Karma? Is he/she like a deity of some sort Jacob?

Jacob · #71 08-09-2005, 08:10 PM

Karma is just a something (though in my storys they're wraiths) that balances life out. You do something bad, Karma makes something bad happen to you. For instance, 9/11 could be said to be the Karma from Hiroshima.

used:) · #72 08-09-2005, 09:19 PM

Kind of like Wicca then? But I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be retributed a lot worse, many more were killed in the bombs than 9/11.

Jacob · #73 08-10-2005, 09:25 AM

'But I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be retributed a lot worse, many more were killed in the bombs than 9/11'

I was thinking more of how the American public reacted, which was a vile way to act after a civilian town was eradicated.

soulstice · #74 08-10-2005, 02:43 PM

:

It has to be said, Karma does come right back around and beat the people who deserve a beating with an excretment covered stick. I've witnessed this on several occasions.

I have.

Not really. Karma is the effect that a specific action has on your soul, whether good or bad. The only time you can be 'punished' by Karma is through reincarnation. And the only people who suffer from bad Karma are people belonging to the lower caste or the untouchable outcastes.

It doesn't seem as though any of you really know the laws of Karma.

used:) · #75 08-10-2005, 03:52 PM

And those are?

ANN NEELY · #76 08-10-2005, 07:07 PM

19 years old and you already have the whole world figured out, eh?

What's in it for the survivors to make up these stories and tell them? To get sympathy? Look at the numbers on their arms. Where did THOSE come from?
The Nazis kept lots of records about what was going on at Auschwitz, and they're on display at the museum.

Six people in my school's video production class went to Poland for the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz with our local Holocaust survivor Eva Mozes Kor. All the pictures they've taken, think those'r fake?

I've read countless books on Auschwitz and have attended holocaust survivor speeches. I don't see why they would make up this stuff. What reason would they have?

What about autobiographies by the Holocaust survivors? Are they just simply making it up? No.

~PH

used:) · #77 08-10-2005, 09:03 PM

It's a shame Ann Frank paased away at that time. Two weeks after her death, the Soviets came and liberated the concentration camp where she was placed. She also would have made a fine author.

the brew master · #78 08-10-2005, 11:36 PM

If you haven't seen the movie you should defenatly see it.

Jacob · #79 08-11-2005, 12:05 AM

'What reason would they have?'

I don't know, like Mojo (methinks) said before, these aren't my opinions, i'm just juggling with the idea of revisionism. But to answer your questions anytoast...

'What about autobiographies by the Holocaust survivors? Are they just simply making it up?'

No, but how do they know what exactly went on if they didn't see it themselves? How do they know their fellow inmates weren't just transferred? Sure, the Nazis killed Jews, but who the Hell says it's 6,000,000?!

I can't stand this "Oh, opinion A is popular so, without doing any research into both arguments of the subject matter, i'm going to side with opinion A" mindset that has swept these forums (and society in general). It's tedious and it limits people's thinking, which is a vile and horrid attempt at tyranny, from the people who're most against tyranny...the liberals.

used:) · #80 08-11-2005, 05:18 AM

:

If you haven't seen the movie you should defenatly see it.

Yes, I believe that Holocaust films are very well made. Most of my friends have sen Shindler's List and I heard it's good but gruesome.

We spent an entire quarter last year studying the Holocaust and I thought it was really enjoyable. We would have seen Shindler's List in there, but becuase of its content, we were forbidden, shame

. I'm getting it from NetFlix soon though. We also read Eliezer Wiegal's, Night. And WE say we have problems.

LoboDiabloLoneWolf · #81 08-11-2005, 10:30 AM

Yeah, you should see Shindler's List, it's a good'un, shows that you can't sterotype everyone, I mean Shindler was a Nazi supporter and he saved something like 11,00 Jews (but don't quote me on that) so I say watch it if yer can.

Jacob · #82 08-11-2005, 11:52 AM

I enjoyed Schindlers list muchly, though i thought Spielburg (or whoever wrote it, since it's mainly the Writers flaw, and not the Directors) lost it towards the end by making Schindler start crying and being a little Puff over the fact he didn't save more. That was by far the weakest point of the whole film.

Saying that though, just because something is made into a film doesn't mean it happened. Plus, Spielburg is Jewish so ZOG is, obviously, behind it all! Damn Jewish conspiracy!

*Twilight zone music*

used:) · #83 08-11-2005, 02:58 PM

And you say I'M a moron!

No shit they made him cry, Shibdler was not a very generous man at first, but later, he had a change of heart and began saving Jewish children. He spent all of his fortune protecting them and keeping it quiet, so he was probably one of the biggest philanthropists of the 20th century.

Dino · #84 08-11-2005, 05:19 PM

I think it should be pointed out that while the KKK were after racial purity, they were mainly aiming to protect the white, so while they would happily kill a black man, they would never kill a white person. For instance, if a black man was found to be in a relationship with a white woman, the black man would be killed. The same with a white man and black woman, it would usually be the woman who'd end up killed.

The KKK are actually largely responsible for some of the racial prejudices and segregation of the US today. They're also the precursor to the Nazis in terms of racial facism and purity, and they are partly to blame for the arrival of NeoNazism in the US. Many of the USA's commercial, industrial, and political leaders have been members of the KKK, and for a long time they oppressed the blacks.

The KKK, like the Nazis, attempt to decriminalise their actions, by claiming that one way or another their actions had no basis in racism, and were in actual fact a result of the belief that if nothing is done about the "problem", it will lead to the downfall of mankind. Despite this, most people remain unconvinced, including many experts on the subject.

Jacob · #85 08-11-2005, 05:52 PM

I read somewhere that mixed-racing was the result of the downfall of the Roman and (it was either one of the two) Egyptian or Greek empires. I've still got to look into this, but if this is the case then i can see why people would want to protect their heritage.

It's all very well bitching about white people who don't want mixed-racing, but there're blacks, asians as well as other cultures that don't want it just as much.

Put in the KKK's context (God created all races, all races are equal, but mixing is creating a new race and thus playing God meaning it's GRRR-ARRRG!!) i can see their view point and accept it. In fact, anybody who has white/black/brown/yellow pride i can accept. It's their viewpoint and it's not wrong to be proud of your heritage, what is wrong, however, is when you act like a Phallus about it and kill somebody not of your heritage. That to me is vile.

'And you say I'M a moron'

You didn't quote a specific part of my "moronic" post.

Back to the KKK topic, i, nor Dino, can say what the KKK's agenda is unless we have actually spoken to somebody who has their ideals. I, personally, would love to have just one forumer who held some different opinions to the mass and could articulate his/her argument properly. As it is, however, i find that the likelyness of this happening is quite low, mainly due to the intolerance of anything not left-wing by a fair few of the forumers.

The Knights claim they themselves have never killed a Black person, and it has been the lesser orders of the KKK groups that have done these, hiding behind the KKK's political facade.

...you never know.

used:) · #86 08-11-2005, 06:44 PM

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Used, you're a moron.

Read it and weep. Need any more proof?

And no, the Roman's demise wasn't caused becuase of racial intermixture.

http://www.roman-empire.net/diverse/faq.html#romefall

Be gone to the Abyss.

AquaticAmbi · #87 08-11-2005, 06:49 PM

:

Back to the KKK topic, i, nor Dino, can say what the KKK's agenda is unless we have actually spoken to somebody who has their ideals.

Have you visited their site? http://www.kkk.bz/index1.htm You can get an idea of what sorts of things are on their agenda directly from it. I find their "Learn the truth about..." articles... interesting (for a lack of a better word), such as the Martin Luther King one.

Don't forget to visit the gift shop for your Klan and Christian souvenirs.

Jacob · #88 08-11-2005, 08:23 PM

'Read it and weep. Need any more proof?'

You've just proved your own moronicness.

You said:
"And you say I'M a moron!"

Implying that i've just said something more moronish than you.

I said:
"You didn't quote a specific part of my "moronic" post."

Meaning 'What moronish thing have i just said to warrant that response?'

You said:
"Read it and weep. Need any more proof?"

Implying you intellectually grasped my question with all the style and grace of an Oiley Monkey suffering from Parkinsons trying to catch a coin.

And Amber i have been on their website, but i mainly read the FAQ and History of the Klan articles as i'm more interested in their history and beliefs if anything.

Dino · #89 08-11-2005, 08:30 PM

You can paint it any way you want, the fact of the matter is that the KKK is a racist organisation, who's actions would be today seen as human rights violations. If they genuinely want to preserve racial purity for themselves, then that's up to them to not have sex with people of differing ethnicity. But everyone else has a right to do what they want to do within the constraints of the law, and currently it's not illegal to have sex with someone who is not of the same ethnicity.

Personally I think it's a big sack of shit. If the KKK were at all interested in preserving racial purity, they would've been killing whites, blacks, spanish, italian, and asian people in pretty much equal proportion, but they weren't - in fact, studies have shown that the majority of their victims were black or black/white "half-caste", which to me says that they were merely looking for an excuse and justification to impose their anti-black racist ideals when they claimed that what they were doing was for the good of racial purity.

used:) · #90 08-11-2005, 09:37 PM

I can't believe that cult still exists. They used to have meetings at a place near my town. And they say they are protecting humanity. Please, they are a mockery to our species and my society.

And try checking your post before mine, Jacob. That should suit your needs. As well as many of your other 4,000 posts.