Disgusting treatment of POWs -

Statikk HDM · #31 05-07-2004, 09:30 AM

"Bow there heads and cry like little bitches..." You've got to be joking, right? Let's say you're in America and suspected of crimes. You deserve civil treatment, a lawyer, and the full benefit of American law. Now lets say that you're suspected of being a terrorist. All of a sudden you are not human. You are a "crying little bitch". You'll be tortured with sleep and sensory deprevation, forced sexual contact with others, beatings, and perhaps rape and other sexual abuse. And who is doing this to you? Saddam Hussein? Nope, it is being done by the people who are supposed to be bringing freedom and civil rights to your ravished nation. How could you, in their situation, not be outraged? The real kicker is that Bush isn't apologizing, isn't giving stiff punsihments or court martials, and Donald Rumsfeld, the man who heard of these problems from the U.N. and others sources but did nothing, in fact by turning a blind eye to the problem condoned it, is NOT BEING PUNISHED! In fact, he's getting acolades from Bush, who seems to think that a lying, heartless politico who started a war on false pretenses and didn't stop abuse of prisoners is "really great."

Jacob · #32 05-07-2004, 11:39 AM

'Iraqi women and children have been sexually violated'

Where did you get that from?! I haven't heard about that...

'Also, Jacob, the treatment of the people that were captured by Iraqis was downright sedate compared to the sick shit that has been happening to POWs at the hands of U.S. soldiers.'

Oh yes, i forgot you're the equivalent to a God and knew everything that happened about everything. Do excuse me for being so mortal.

paramiteabe · #33 05-07-2004, 12:53 PM

If anybody who needs to apologise is those solders who commited those crimes. None of you understand that this is a war and war is not pretty you are going to see this type of stuff. It amazes me on how you guys see this as being something new. As far as I am concern this is a palitical move on the left.

Sekto Springs · #34 05-07-2004, 01:08 PM

:

If anybody who needs to apologise it's those soldiers who commited those crimes. None of you understand that this is a war and war is not pretty. You are going to see this type of stuff. It amazes me on how you guys see this as being something new. As far as I am concerned this is a political move on the left.

I don't think it has much to do with politics. It's out of the politicians' hands, they need someone "bigger" to solve this.

Oh, and if you didn't notice I corrected your gramatical and spelling errors in the quote, everything I changed is in bold...

Volsung · #35 05-07-2004, 01:38 PM

Once again, we Americans prove that people born on the North American Continent AREN'T chosen by god, as our politicians so often claim. But leaving politics out of it, I think the worst part of this is that the soldiers are going out of their way to make the Iraqis feel inhuman. Not that Humanity's that great in the first place, but seriously. At this point all one can do is watch the news roll in and go "Oh, right. I'd forgotten for a minute that Americans ARE the terrorists. Because it was never obvious before this." I'm not sure it comes over that well digitally, but that's my attempt at sarcasm.

This war was never about liberation, so I'm sure the soldiers are thinking "Who cares if we rape a few Iraqis? They bombed us, they deserve it." Oops, my mistake. Iraq never did bomb us. This war was pre-emptive. And pre-emptive is another word for unjustified.

As for those who suggest we shouldn't be shocked or disgusted because we've seen it all before, you might want to rethink you're concept of humanity. Just because this was easily spotted "a mile off" doesn't mean that that excuses the vile nature of it.
Once again, I agree with Stattik's position.

MojoMan220 · #36 05-07-2004, 02:30 PM

The big problem with these photos is that countries in the middle east as well as all over the world now have even more reason to hate the U.S.. What Idiot had the camera? Were they trying to get caught? It doesn't take a moron to know that was wrong, and they should pay the consequences. It is not known that all those men were guilty, but even if they were, it shouldn't have taken place, and the U.S. shouldn't be sinking to the levels of terrorists. Those people ruined things for the rest of the our military, and put them in more danger.

oddguy · #37 05-07-2004, 04:12 PM

Let me just clear some things up with some solid facts. I have some quotes from investigative reporter Seymour Hersh, who has written a major article about the Iraq torture situation in this week's issue of "The New Yorker" magazine.

"...this was not a prison full of hardened, you know, soldiers caught in war. These are full of civilians...

...60 percent of the people in the prison had nothing to do with, no bad feelings toward America whatsoever. They simply were caught in a random roadside check or they were snatched off the street. They should have been processed under the Geneva Convention...

...they should have been processed. We should have gotten rid of the good guys from the bad guys. There was no control, no paperwork."

Okay, so some of you saying that you feel no remorse for these people because they were terrorists have to understand that most of these people were civilians. Doesn't that just disgust you?

:

Make them lay on each other naked [which was quite an amusing photo, especially with the woman smiling] like it's any big deal?

You should be ashamed of yourself, Jacob.

Hersh: "First of all, it's going to get much worse. This kind of stuff was much more widespread. I can tell you just from the phone calls I've had in the last 24 hours, even more, there are other photos out there. There are many more photos even inside that unit. There are videotapes of stuff that you wouldn't want to mention on national television that was done. There was a lot of problems.

There was a special women's section. There were young boys in there. There were things done to young boys that were videotaped. It's much worse."

Here's your proof, Jacob.

-oddguy

Fez · #38 05-07-2004, 10:59 PM

the A-rabs did it to our guys they captured, hell, i knew someone from the first gulf war who was captured and interrogated for 4 months by A-rabs, he died, but didnt give out any info at all. I feel sorry for him.

paramiteabe · #39 05-08-2004, 01:27 AM

The way those soldiers treated the POW's was wrong. But it does not mean that those POWs are innocient for their war crimes.

They did commit crimes and they are recieveing punishment. Now what the soldiers did was as low as what Saddam did. Now those soldiers are being court marsheld and sent to prison for their crimes. But those abused Iraqi POW's are going to stay in prison because they are terrorist.

So let me get this streight you want those POW's free so they can attack us?

This war is a defensive war and we are defending our homeland in the middle east. Do you want war to wage here in the states? Because I feel thats whats going to happen not only with the middle east but with our selves. Another civil war.

***Alcar*** · #40 05-08-2004, 01:38 AM

*sigh* It seems Oddworld hasn't blurred the lines between good and evil enough. We still have arrogant, over-opinionated morons, even on the forums dedicated to their games.

If members haven't learnt anything from the ethics of Oddworld, it is indeed a shame. But a tribute to those that have learnt from them.

Alcar...

oddguy · #41 05-08-2004, 07:30 AM

:

The way those soldiers treated the POW's was wrong. But it does not mean that those POWs are innocient for their war crimes.

They did commit crimes and they are recieveing punishment. Now what the soldiers did was as low as what Saddam did. Now those soldiers are being court marsheld and sent to prison for their crimes. But those abused Iraqi POW's are going to stay in prison because they are terrorist.

So let me get this streight you want those POW's free so they can attack us?

This war is a defensive war and we are defending our homeland in the middle east. Do you want war to wage here in the states? Because I feel thats whats going to happen not only with the middle east but with our selves. Another civil war.

PA, did you not just read what I posted? 60 percent of those POW's in that prison were civilians! 60 percent of the people in there had done nothing wrong! And even if they all had, that still doesn't justify what happened in that prison. The law is what takes care of criminals...not individuals taking the law into their own hands.

:

If members haven't learnt anything from the ethics of Oddworld, it is indeed a shame. But a tribute to those that have learnt from them.

*hopes he's on the good list*

-oddguy

Jacob · #42 05-08-2004, 08:15 AM

'Here's your proof, Jacob.'

Yes, but may i ask why no other stations/papers are stating such shtuffs [to my knowledge anyway]? Surely woman and children being raped/tortured would be far worse than a few men? And thus would get more press coverage.

'Doesn't that just disgust you?'

Not really, i must be really dissensitsed because i feel nothing for them. I don't really think anything that's happening to them is really that bad [the men by the by, if anything's happening to the women or children it should be stopped and the Soldiers shot].

'The law is what takes care of criminals...not individuals taking the law into their own hands.'

Although i agree with you that nothing should be happening to the civilians [if they are civilians being harmed] i disagree with you on the law thing. The law is a large system that is a bit of a bastard - and although i think that the guys who have commited crimes should have a bit of torture and humiliation inflicted on them, i also think that unless it's justified it shouldn't happen.

Di$array · #43 05-08-2004, 08:49 AM

:

the A-rabs did it to our guys they captured, hell, i knew someone from the first gulf war who was captured and interrogated for 4 months by A-rabs, he died, but didnt give out any info at all. I feel sorry for him.

yes but we are more civilised and we keep to the Jeneva convension (well did till now)

***Alcar*** · #44 05-08-2004, 01:12 PM

What happened shouldn't of happened, but it's going to happen again in the next war we have. And the next. And the next. And all subsequent wars. Though I will say, humanity will never get along with eachother completely. There will always be someone who thinks they have a better way of doing things, and thus multiple civilisations spring up.

Or, biblically, we can blame God, in reference to the occurences at Babel.

Alcar...

Joe the Intern · #45 05-08-2004, 04:06 PM

PA, you're dumb all over. We shouldn't HAVE to expect things like this in war. We expect every single one of our soldiers to act responsibly and humanly. If you think, "Well, that's too bad. We expect things like this to happen anyway," then you're condoning it. Condoning actions like those is almost as bad as committing them yourself.

paramiteabe · #46 05-09-2004, 04:06 AM

I did not say what happened in those prisons was justified.

What I really said and I honestly wish you stop putting words in my mouth that those POW's are also criminals of war. And I also stated that this should not be new to anybody this type of thing happens unfortuanately during wars.

I am not condoneing it I think its sick. And thankyou for calling me dumb!

Jacob · #47 05-09-2004, 04:19 AM

'I think its sick'

The photo's that i've seen are far from sick. Degrading, yes. Sick, no. Believe me, if i was in the same mindset as the Soldiers and i got a chance to do something to some random Arab, i'd do something a lot more disturbing than strip them naked, put a sack on their head and take a few little photo's.

MojoMan220 · #48 05-09-2004, 07:09 AM

:

'I think its sick'

The photo's that i've seen are far from sick. Degrading, yes. Sick, no. Believe me, if i was in the same mindset as the Soldiers and i got a chance to do something to some random Arab, i'd do something a lot more disturbing than strip them naked, put a sack on their head and take a few little photo's.

Some random Arab? Yes, those people are under a lot of stress and have lost friends in combat, but they are not all after revenge towards the Arabs as a people. To say if you were in their position, you would love to do aweful things to any Arab bad or good is just ignorant racisim. The mindset of the soldiers is not as disturbed as you seem to think. I truly hope I misread your intentions.

DeBulletDodger · #49 05-09-2004, 07:33 AM

I get the feeling you didnt.

Jacob · #50 05-09-2004, 12:27 PM

'To say if you were in their position, you would love to do aweful things to any Arab bad or good is just ignorant racisim. The mindset of the soldiers is not as disturbed as you seem to think. I truly hope I misread your intentions.'

By "random Arab" i, sooo obviously, meant "random bad Arab" as in, one who has been put in jail for a genuine reason. *Tuts* You Hetero's, always misreading the obvious.

DeBulletDodger · #51 05-09-2004, 12:30 PM

never mind

Statikk HDM · #52 05-09-2004, 03:42 PM

Why aren't the news covering this? I'll sum it up in 6 words: It makes America look like garbage. I've seen the videotapes of Iraqis tortures and raped. Its there. Everybody is covering it. And paramite abe, you are an asshole for saying these people deserved it. They were women, children, and people totally removed from terrorism. Over 60 percent were selected randomly. This makes Tailhook look like a tea party and heads should roll. Specifically that ape bush and his toadies Cheney and Rumsfeld. Also, considering how outraged we were over 9-11 just think how Iraqis must feel after learning that the liberators were raping prisoners. Considering how far beyond sane you have to be to actually consider someone as less than human so that you can rape and emotionally scar them without remorse this easily puts this scandal on par with 9-11. The entire war is basically Retribution for 9-11: Redux. The soldiers probably bought into all the propaganda and believed they were getting back at Hussein. Hell, they probably thought forced oral sex and other tortures of "raghead scum" were completely called for and as wholesome as apple pie.

oddguy · #53 05-09-2004, 03:46 PM

Finally somebody listens to me when it comes to the "60 percent were civilians" thing. I appreciate that very much, Statikk.

-oddguy

MojoMan220 · #54 05-10-2004, 01:26 AM

[QUOTE=Statikk HDM]Why aren't the news covering this? I'll sum it up in 6 words: It makes America look like garbage.QUOTE]

There is actually a rather large saturation of the networks here with those images. You won't be able to turn on the news for more than five minutes without seeing the pics.

Jacob · #55 05-10-2004, 02:37 AM

'Why aren't the news covering this? I'll sum it up in 6 words: It makes America look like garbage.'

Yes, i can understand why the American press won't cover it. They even put the actual photo documentation of humiliated Iraqi's in the middle of their papers instead the front page like the British papers did. Which is my point, the American press may be complete wankers who like to hide/shy away from the truth. But if a story this big is floating around, the British newspapers will be circling it like Sharks...and i find it surprising that none of the papers have actually reported the rapes and beatings of women and children.

'I've seen the videotapes of Iraqis tortures and raped. Its there.'

And where exactly is "there"? Surely if you can see them the worlds press must be able to see them. And since, practically all, the press and tabloids loathe America they would be more than happy to publicise this. How the Hell did you see them?

Has anyone else on the forums heard about the rapes and beatings of women and children? Or seen photographs of such acts? If so, can you please state where please.

Oh, and on a completly seperate issue - the Silver Ring Thing group is coming to the UK. Can someone who knows the SRT please tell them to f*ck off since we don't want any of their shite over here, thanks.

Statikk HDM · #56 05-10-2004, 05:05 AM

There are pics of the raping of Iraqi women on Bartcop. Tons of other sites are also starting to publicize the killing of 3000 Afghanis. "Suspected" terrorists who were slaughtered in sweatboxes. The video is huge though, so unless you have a good connection I wouldn't bother. More and more pics and videos are surfacing every day and Congress will get to view all of the pictures and videos of torture. So this isn't over by a long shot because what the mainstream press is getting is by far the less dark and disturbing of the evidence. Here is where photos have been showed of raped Iraqi women. This also has good links to places where you can download the videos showing the slaughter of Afghan prisoners. www.bartcop.com/1304.htm
You think this has gotten a lot of coverage? Then why don't people have a clue that these tactics were reccomended to get information out of "suspected" terrorists? This will be covered just like Camp X-ray: A few photos and talks about how bad it is but then some other freak will put on a show or some other aberration will distract the people. "Oh, Rummy just got fired and Celebrity X did some freaky shit? Oh, I suppose no more abuse will occur. Hey, turn on Court TV and lets watch a famous person's scandalous slide to oblivion!"