Gayometer

[Jacob]

Ok, on the relationship with God thing. You may think you have a relationship with God, like i think i have a relationship with both God and Lucifer. If i am on my own and have not got my mobile phone with me, i will speak to them. If i am wanting something and can't be bothered to do some hocus pocus i will ask both God and Lucifer to aid me...that way, if God doesn't want to help me because my reasons are too selfish, Lucifer will. Now, all of the above was due to my family making me believe in God. I now do it out of habit, rather than believing in one true being. But i know that if there was a God he would want us to live our lives to the fullest extent, rather than pussy-footing around.

Mark my words. God did not create sin....Satan did.

Oh yes, thats right(!) Lucifer created the Apple that Eve ate and tempted Adam with...

It all comes down to interperatation though. How we see things. Everyone makes up theories and such...and that's all your belief is bassed on....theories. Mine is based on truth, faith and my unshaken testimony of the True living God.

Do you see what you just did there? You stated that you, yourself, know that certain things are fact due to faith. Ok, thats all very well. But you've only read the Bible. Whereas they have read every religious book revolving around Christianity there is...deciphered it...and came up with a conclusion. How do you know they're not religious? Just because they're Demonologists doesn't mean they don't go to Church. The texts are not based on theories either, but based on evidence found in the scriptures...

I do get my info from God

You have faith that you get your info from God...but in reality you could easily be led astray. Such as that man in America who killed the woman who worked at an abortion clinic...

Ummmm, when is it your business to say I pick and choose when you don't follow any Godly rules. Yes, I'm not perfect, but I follow God's commandments to the best of my ability, and I am blessed for it. My life isn't being wasted.

Just because i don't follow Gods rules doesn't mean i cannot see when somebody isn't being a true Christian. A true Christian will do what the Bible says, no matter what. You can easily live your life as the Bible says exactly...you don't though, and why? Because you would rather pamper yourself with the joys of random things, ranging from nice clothes, nice foods and other luxuries.

There is lots of factual evidence, but I know from a higher source as well.

Please do not go on about factual evidence if you're not going to produce any. Just because the other evidence you brought up was ripped apart by logic and sense...

Well, if it's his book, he sure doesn't like himself!

No, but going on that theory you're still following him...

God doesn't tell us to go out and punish sinners. We are told not to judge. It says that quite frequently in the Bible.

'5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?'

'10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn.t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)'

Sure, the above may be humerous but they come from the Bible...

Check out the ten commandments. Anyway, God doesn't really punish us. It's more of us punishing ourselves. If you follow Satan

I wasn't on about Satanists. I was talking about Buddists and other such religions. Does this mean they're going to Hell? How would you feel if you died and found out YOUR religion was not the proper one...and thus you were going to be punished for something you had no choice over...?

Not my Bible. Homosexuality is a sin. It's against God's plan of marrige between a Man and a Women.

No...listen...the Bible is going to be modified...and when it is, does this mean you're going to change your beliefs? It's been modified in the past...meaning that somebody, other than God, has changed it.

I believe in the Bible as far as it is translated correctly. I don't see anything in the Bible telling me to kill people, so it can't be that bad.

The Bible has countless translation errors in it...

Yes, lucifer misguides many people, even you. I am close to God, so I know it's Him. Satan fills minds with doubt and sin. I do not doubt my God.

No. When Lucifer approached Eve he first came down as an Angel. Making her believe he was good...he could be doing the exact same thing to you...

When you arrive at the pearly gates, God isn't going to ask what religion you are. God will judge you by your heart, not your religion.

But thats going against the 10 Commandments...so that means they're going straight to Hell...

Anyway, regardless of the above, if God will forgive you if you sin so long as you have him in your Hearts whats the big deal with sinning? Back in the day it didn't matter if you had him in your Hearts...you had to abide by the rules the Apostles set. Now, thats seemingly changed, meaning a murderer could rape and kill a thousand babies and if he has God in his Heart he will go to Heaven...and if that can happen then why have sins at all? Why not just teach about God instead of saying "Well...if you do this its a sin and you will go to Hell...but if you have God in your Heart you can do it...and still get into Heaven." kind of a big loop hole in the afterlife case isn't there really?

[GrigtheSlig]

WOW! I thought that this was the "Gayometer" I don't feel like argueing today, maybe tomorrow...

[oddguy]

Originally posted by Jacob
Ok, on the relationship with God thing. You may think you have a relationship with God, like i think i have a relationship with both God and Lucifer. If i am on my own and have not got my mobile phone with me, i will speak to them. If i am wanting something and can't be bothered to do some hocus pocus i will ask both God and Lucifer to aid me...that way, if God doesn't want to help me because my reasons are too selfish, Lucifer will. Now, all of the above was due to my family making me believe in God. I now do it out of habit, rather than believing in one true being. But i know that if there was a God he would want us to live our lives to the fullest extent, rather than pussy-footing around.

It says in the scriptures that you cannot serve both God and Satan. Man cannot have two masters is what it says. Anyway God does want us to live at the fullest....that is, fullest extent of righteousness.

Do you see what you just did there? You stated that you, yourself, know that certain things are fact due to faith. Ok, thats all very well. But you've only read the Bible. Whereas they have read every religious book revolving around Christianity there is...deciphered it...and came up with a conclusion. How do you know they're not religious? Just because they're Demonologists doesn't mean they don't go to Church. The texts are not based on theories either, but based on evidence found in the scriptures...

I've given you evidence before, but it seems you just mock it or find some way of weasling around, so I don't bother anymore.

You have faith that you get your info from God...but in reality you could easily be led astray. Such as that man in America who killed the woman who worked at an abortion clinic...

What a troubled man. The sad thing is, he thinks he did a good thing. If he would've looked in the scriptures, he would know that murder is a sin and that God is the guy who performs His judgement...not us. I know this. I'm not astray.

Just because i don't follow Gods rules doesn't mean i cannot see when somebody isn't being a true Christian. A true Christian will do what the Bible says, no matter what. You can easily live your life as the Bible says exactly...you don't though, and why? Because you would rather pamper yourself with the joys of random things, ranging from nice clothes, nice foods and other luxuries.

Again...you aren't Christain...you don't know. Anyway, God doesn't mind if we have nice stuff. When God says not to worship idols or things made by your own hands, He is talking about those that place their weath and possessions first before God. I place God first in my life, so I can have nice stuff. In the Bible, God says not to burry your talent. My talent is to write, so if I make some cash off a book, I'm not going to be punished because God told me to expand the talents He has given me. Do you see the loopholes you are making in your accusations? I'm not upset...you just don't know what you're talking about!

Please do not go on about factual evidence if you're not going to produce any. Just because the other evidence you brought up was ripped apart by logic and sense...

It was only 'ripped apart' by you. If God Himself visited you, you'd find some way to say it's not true because you are pridefull in yourself and unwilling to accept anything.

'5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?'

Let God deal with that in His own way. Working on the Sabbath is disrespectful to God, but your friend can repent.

'10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn.t we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)'

The crop thing, and the garment thing have passed. This was the old law. The new law came forth when Jesus was atoned. Those don't apply to today. To repent, you used to have sacrafice animals, but now we can repent through the atoning sacrafice of Jesus Christ. We are now in the new law.

I wasn't on about Satanists. I was talking about Buddists and other such religions. Does this mean they're going to Hell? How would you feel if you died and found out YOUR religion was not the proper one...and thus you were going to be punished for something you had no choice over...?

Like I said, God judges by the heart. Not by what religion you come from.

No...listen...the Bible is going to be modified...and when it is, does this mean you're going to change your beliefs? It's been modified in the past...meaning that somebody, other than God, has changed it.

I have the origianl King James Version of the Bible. The closest thing I can get to the original thing. I don't believe in any other unnesiscary modifications.

The Bible has countless translation errors in it...

I know, but I also read the book of Mormon. The book of Mormon was given to Joseph Smith by God and transalated through revelation. It's the most correct book on the Earth. It coincides with the Bible and even furthers a few things. Joseph also was able to make a true translation of the Bible, so I have it without error.

No. When Lucifer approached Eve he first came down as an Angel. Making her believe he was good...he could be doing the exact same thing to you...

How do you know that? Do you and Satan hang out!

But thats going against the 10 Commandments...so that means they're going straight to Hell...

Anyway, regardless of the above, if God will forgive you if you sin so long as you have him in your Hearts whats the big deal with sinning? Back in the day it didn't matter if you had him in your Hearts...you had to abide by the rules the Apostles set. Now, thats seemingly changed, meaning a murderer could rape and kill a thousand babies and if he has God in his Heart he will go to Heaven...and if that can happen then why have sins at all? Why not just teach about God instead of saying "Well...if you do this its a sin and you will go to Hell...but if you have God in your Heart you can do it...and still get into Heaven." kind of a big loop hole in the afterlife case isn't there really?

I didn't say that. You just asume everything you say. You can have God in your heart, but without repentance you're in trouble. A murderer of 1000 people can't just repent and go back to his evil ways of murdering and expect to go to heaven. There are no loopholes with God. You make up loopholes that do not exist.

Let's just quit this annoying debate. It's getting nowhere and we just keep going in circles.

-oddguy

[Jacob]

It says in the scriptures that you cannot serve both God and Satan.

I'm not serving them...i'm talking to them when i'm bored...

fullest extent of righteousness.

It's all very well saying that, but then you see how many things are banned...

I've given you evidence before, but it seems you just mock it or find some way of weasling around, so I don't bother anymore.

I wouldn't exactly say just because somebody says that an old boat isn't the Ark its weasling around it. Or just because somebody asks you to present evidence that the Bible is the word of God, mocking it...you haven't been able to prove the latter anyway, and the former is basicly faith driven.

If he would've looked in the scriptures, he would know that murder is a sin and that God is the guy who performs His judgement...not us. I know this. I'm not astray.

I believe the Scriptures he was reading stated about an 'eye for an eye'. And anyway, just because you know that killing is wrong doesn't mean you're not astray...

Again...you aren't Christain...you don't know. Anyway, God doesn't mind if we have nice stuff. When God says not to worship idols or things made by your own hands, He is talking about those that place their weath and possessions first before God. I place God first in my life, so I can have nice stuff. In the Bible, God says not to burry your talent. My talent is to write, so if I make some cash off a book, I'm not going to be punished because God told me to expand the talents He has given me. Do you see the loopholes you are making in your accusations? I'm not upset...you just don't know what you're talking about!

Yet again you are finding ways to go around the actual point. Sure, don't bury your talent but if God wanted us to live gracefully and like kings i'm sure he would have said so. Him being all thinking-ahead and shtuffs.

It was only 'ripped apart' by you. If God Himself visited you, you'd find some way to say it's not true because you are pridefull in yourself and unwilling to accept anything.

No, it was also made sense of by other forumers. And if God visited myself i would believe...but thats never going to happen.

Like I said, God judges by the heart. Not by what religion you come from.

But you just said we can't turn our backs on God?

How do you know that? Do you and Satan hang out!

Because its mentioned in one of the religious books.

There are no loopholes with God.

You misunderstood me. Man kills and rapes 1000 babies...and yet is a true Christian. Does everything he's supposed to and loves God. Doesn't murder or rape again. Yet doesn't show remorse. Does he go to Heaven?

Random disproofulness;
I propose that it can be proven that God is a myth. First, we have to assume that we are talking about the Christian God described in the Bible. If the Bible isn't the truth, than the God it describes isn't real. Now, the Bible is full of errors and contradictions, literally hundreds of them. I'm not going to give them here, but do a quick search on the internet and you will find many sites devoted to the topic. Many Christians will try to tell you that the errors are a result of translations and not present in original writings, but would God allow that to happen? Wouldn't he inspire the translators as well? Also, if it were truly a work of God, the Bible should be something that men could never come up with on their own; unfortunaltly, they did. Could the Bible be inspired by the perfect God it describes yet have errors and contradictions throughout it at the same time? Obviosly, the answer is no. Thus, the Bible isn't inspired, and God is a myth.
No errors or contradictions? Here are just a few:
Mathew 7:21 says not everyone who calls on the name of the lord shall be saved.
VS. Acts 2:21 Paul says whoever calls on the name of the lord shall be saved.

John 13:38 "the cock shall not crow till thou hast denied me three times."
VS. Mark 14:68 says the cock crowed after the first denial.

Genesis 32:30 says, "....I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
VS. John 1:18 says, "no man hath seen God at any time..."

Leviticus 11:20-21 Birds and insects have four legs.

Websites - Naughties (see above extract)
Yorkies

Let's just quit this annoying debate. It's getting nowhere and we just keep going in circles.

True. But what do you make of the above shtuffs?

[oddguy]

Blah Blah Blah. I didn't even have to read your last post to know what you were gonna say. Anyway, I'm tired of wasting my time here, so I'm not coming back to this thread. Jacob, If you really want to know if the Bible is true, go look it up on the net. There are millions of sites dedicated to this particular subject.

Matthew 7:6
6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

This means not to reveal anything holy unto those that will just mock sacred things, like you. So, I'm just doing what God wants me to do. Jacob, if you change your attitude and are ever really interested in a relationship with God, feel free to pm me, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm just going to leave you with my unshaken testimony of the true living God. I believe in God, and I know that He loves me and cares for me. He has helped me endure trials and blessed me greatly. I have seen angels and witnessed many miracles. There is no way anyone can change my mind about God, because He has personally guided me through my entire life and I owe a lot to Him. I'm a servant of Heavenly Father, and He has mighty works planned for me to do while upon this earth. I lead a happy life because God is in it, and I couldn't imagine it any other way. I will always stand by the Lord's side, and He will stand by mine. No one can tell me that God is myth.

-oddguy

[GrigtheSlig]

WOW! That was pretty good oddguy...

Anyway, Jacob, (this is an asumption by the way) I think that you really do believe in God, and you would like to listen to oddguy and the rest of us, but you don't want to believe in God anymore, because you don't like you parents, and don't wan't to believe they way they do. You even said yourself that you still pray to God, but I think that deep inside yourself that you really do believe in God... but I might be wrong...

GrigtheSlig

[Alcar]

Originally posted by Jacob
No...listen...the Bible is going to be modified...and when it is, does this mean you're going to change your beliefs? It's been modified in the past...meaning that somebody, other than God, has changed it.

To add upon that, I'd like to mention that Homosexuality will one day be considered normal. Just like sexism and racism have died down, and their respective rights have been acknowledged. It just takes time.

I belong to a Catholic family, a loving and caring family. I can see how it benefits us, as all the family firmly believe in God. We don't follow all the rules, and I don't hold it against them. We do what we feel is right, we do the just and moral thing. It works in our case, as I've grown up in a loving family. However, we don't look down on others, and make them convert or repent. Hell, we crack jokes about them Anglicans, Orthodox and Jehovah's Witnesses

Me and my Mother are extremely close, and from her I've learnt most of my religious knowledge. Regularly we'll chat, mostly while doing the dishes, and it'll be about a range of subjects. She is, and will always be the only one that can bring me to tears just thinking about her in certain circumstances - our relationship, is well, something to be proud of.

Christ, sometimes she makes me question my Agnosticism in favour of Catholicism. I wonder sometimes whether I will end up being a Catholic again. Only because of her, and how she's interpreted the word of God. She understands that Man has ruined the word of God, the original word of God. It was the words "Catholicism has been ruined by Man, Peter. Corrupt and greedy men, even Popes, that have tainted it. Just remember, the core beliefs of God will never change. Just do what is right. God can't ask any more of you.". You just can't put into words the value of her to me.

That, I understand is somewhat due to her Catholic upbringing - and thus, I can see the value of Catholicism.

Hope.

Alcar...

[Joshy]

Originally posted by Alcar
To add upon that. Homosexuality will one day be considered normal. Just like sexism and racism have died down, and their rights have been acknowledged. It just takes time.

In my social view, yes i would agree. But then the years of brainwashing and bible reading kicks in.

Revs up head...

Lucky i read the bible alot.... Dont tease me becoz i love God.

Leviticus 20


Punishments for Sin


'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.
10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife-with the wife of his neighbor-both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
11 " 'If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
12 " 'If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.
13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
14 " 'If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.
15 " 'If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.
16 " 'If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
17 " 'If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be cut off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.
18 " 'If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.
19 " 'Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.
20 " 'If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless.
21 " 'If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

[Joshy]

Theres more

Leviticus 18

7 " 'Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.
8 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.
9 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.
10 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.
11 " 'Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.
12 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.
13 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.
14 " 'Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.
15 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.
16 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.
17 " 'Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
18 " 'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.
19 " 'Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.
20 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.
21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed [1] to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD .
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
23 " 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.



Yeah theres this other law saying your penis has to get cut off and your balls crushed if you commit some of those sins.

[Mac the Janitor]

Originally posted by Alcar
To add upon that, I'd like to mention that Homosexuality will one day be considered normal. Just like sexism and racism have died down, and their respective rights have been acknowledged. It just takes time.

Wow, that's right...I never thought of it like that. That's pretty smart.

[Wil]

Originally posted by Alcar
To add upon that, I'd like to mention that Homosexuality will one day be considered normal. Just like sexism and racism have died down, and their respective rights have been acknowledged. It just takes time.

Just to add to that in a roundabout way, we were talking in RS about some guy who was put in prison, during which time he wrote a book and there's plenty of controversy about whether or not it should be released. Seems a pretty stupid thing to be concerned about, when there are far less suitable things being aired on TV adverts before the watershed.

Anyway, in a magazine it had some quotes from the book, and one of the things he talked about was that paedophilia will one day become as accepted as homosexuality now is.

[Jacob]

paedophilia will one day become as accepted as homosexuality now is.

That was one of the main things i was worried about. Then i realised Paedophilia is forced and nasty, whereas Homosexuality is between two consenting adults and immensly pleasurable...

You even said yourself that you still pray to God

I talk to him and Lucifer. They're my conciences...yeh, u lot may have an Angel and a Demon...i have the two main peeps...bring...it...on...!!

Anyway, anybody know how to Astral Project?

[Wil]

i realised Paedophilia is forced and nasty

The act of it is, I agree, but the thinking about it isn't, and we can't be prosecuted for our thoughts, because so often we simply can't control them. Still, it's an area I'm not too clear on.

What if it was an act the child concented to, having full knowledge of it all?

Whatever, I do know that to prevent acts paedophilia, the culprits need psychological help and compassion, not prison sentences and hatred.

[Hobo]

Originally posted by Max the Mug
Just to add to that in a roundabout way, we were talking in RS about some guy who was put in prison, during which time he wrote a book and there's plenty of controversy about whether or not it should be released.

If only theey'd stop Jeffery Archer's Books being released. How come there's no controversy about that eh?

[Jacob]

the culprits need psychological help and compassion

No, they need to be executed. Prefarably painfully. Regardless of if they choose to be like that or they don't, they can still stop themselves...i wanna f*ck James' brains out...do i? No...because it would be inappropiate.

The act of it is, I agree, but the thinking about it isn't, and we can't be prosecuted for our thoughts, because so often we simply can't control them.

Yeh, but the thinking leads to downloading stuff which is just instigating it...

What if it was an act the child concented to, having full knowledge of it all?

I think this differs between boys and girls. Whereas boys underage are usually horny and gagging for a shagging anyway, girls aren't and are usually destroyed when this happens to them, beit then or later in life. Plus, its more painful for a girl.

I know a 20 year old guy who had slept with a 14 year old. The 14 year old txted his friends bragging, then his dad found the texts and now the 20 year old is in prison, and on the registry. I think thats abit wrong, but if the guy did know the kids age, then he deserves it.

[Facsimile]

Originally posted by paramiteabe
I mean for you people who believe in Satin and all of his works do you talk to him phisically

Yes, I talk to my boxer shorts everyday. Praise be thy freedom theyith allow!

[Mac the Janitor]

Originally posted by Facsimile
Yes, I talk to my boxer shorts everyday. Praise be thy freedom theyith allow!

Hahahaha...way to go, Fac.

*gives him a thooper dooper high five*

[paramiteabe]

Well good for you I hope everything goes well with your boxer shorts.

[Lucipher]

23% TOO straight apparently.

[Jacob]

Just found a rather interesting site -

A rather interesting site

Goes on about how there was no sexual orientation back in the day and other shtuffs about Chariots...and Horses...and Trains...and...yeh...shtuffs...still, interesting.

[GrigtheSlig]

Good for you Joshy! I'm so proud of you! Those were really good scriptures! *Gives 5 to Joshy*