The Debate Thread -

SeaRex · #31 08-01-2003, 01:30 AM

Oh... oh gracious! Excellent link, Chris! I was looking for a good place for demon info (especially Lillith), having already obtained enough links listing angels.

I'm almost positive that the Angel/ArchAngel (can't remember which) Azrael is the bearer of death. But again, I could be wrong... I look up my angel info pages tomorrow.

Mac the Janitor · #32 08-01-2003, 01:44 AM

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Originally posted by GrigtheSlig
Well, let me just say that it makes me SICK that people are defending this! I know it's wrong, and unfortunenly not everyone has my oppinion! So what can people do in this situation...defend what they believe so that people can reallize that it's wrong! The whole gay sheep thing, in the Bible it says that Satan's evil minions possessed a whole herd of PIGS!!! That could be happening to those animals, so that people can think that it's ok to be gay because animals are doing it!

So, wait...lemme get this straight...

You're saying that Statan's evil minions possessed a sheep just to hump another male sheep? Don't they have better things to do?

GrigtheSlig · #33 08-01-2003, 01:49 AM

They don't have any bodies, so they go into whatever they can find, and if that's what Satan wants them to do, then they'll do it!

oddguy · #34 08-01-2003, 02:25 AM

Could someone pleeeeeeese change the subject?!

Disgruntled Intern · #35 08-01-2003, 02:27 AM

"in the Bible it says that Satan's evil minions possessed a whole herd of PIGS!!! That could be happening to those animals, so that people can think that it's ok to be gay because animals are doing it!"

If your christian 'satan' is so busy trying to corrupt the earth and so on, then why the hell would he bother possessing sheep? I mean, come on now...It's common knowledge that sheep are none too bright, so I doubt many people will be basing their life changing sexual preferences based on the actions of a couple sheep.

[I know this is what Jacob pretty much said, but hey.]

I personally am not homosexual, so I feel I have no business telling other people what sort of sexual preferences to make.

Moving on...

"Jacob, you have your opinion, I have mine. Mine happens to be right, but if you don't see that it's your problem."

See, I'm all for taking other people's opinions into consideration. I'm even willing to change mine if theirs makes more sense to me.

But what you just said was purely ignorant. I want you to sit back and think about all the times in your life so far that someone has pulled that exact same kind of attitude.

How did it make you feel?

Not too good, I'm sure.

If your faith in this so called 'god' is so insecure that you have to insist everyone who disagrees with you is wrong, then perhaps it is time for you to reflect on the choices you've made so far. Chosing a religion included.

Bottom line:

If you think homosexuality is wrong, well, hey, there's obviously no changing your mind. And I'm fine with that. What I dislike hearing is that you're not personally opposed to it, but instead, you loathe the idea because 'god' apparently does. Hatred is hereditary, folks. Raise your children right.

Disgruntled Intern · #36 08-01-2003, 02:31 AM

Okay, as for the new topic of discussion:

Do you think it is okay for children to be forced into going to church at an early age?

Or do you feel religion is something to be taken into consideration when the child/person is competent enough to fully comprehend what they're getting in to?

Woo. Double post. I need a warning.

oddguy · #37 08-01-2003, 02:48 AM

Okay, religion starting from an early age............Yes, it would seem that starting a child with early religion would be a method of brainwashing. I find that people who find God on their own, appreciate Him a lot more than those raised in church. In my church, the youngsters go to church and at eight decide if they want to be baptised, but I've never seen a case when a kid goes, "Nah...I don't think joining is such a good idea." I don't have a problem with God...I downright love the guy!

But I get a little problem with church. Church is run by people, who make mistakes like everybody else. Most different churches believe "they" are the "only one to lead you to God". In the middle east and all over the world it's like, "I'm going to kill you cus' the name of my God is different than yours!" I say, if you're a good person, and have a good relationship with God, then you'll go to Heaven and be happy! In some cases, I know people who don't know God and are still good people.

SeaRex · #38 08-01-2003, 02:50 AM

I was forced to go to a catholic church when I was a wee lad. Probably why I got turned off of the whole "religion" thing.

However, if the parents are christian (or whatever) than they should raise their children christian (or whatever) until they are old/mature enough to make an informed decision of their own. If they want to stay in the faith, fine. If they don't believe in it, then there is no sense in brainwashing them into a set way of thinking. Or at least that's what I think.

oddguy · #39 08-01-2003, 02:53 AM

I agree! Some people who are forced into church are more likely to rebel, but those that are treated like adults and are able to make an informed discision are the ones who appreciate their religion more.

SeaRex · #40 08-01-2003, 02:57 AM

Really, it comes down to the kind of person that is participating in the faith. If the person is (I'm wanting to say "weak," but that's not the right word...) than they will most likely stay in the religion because they need something to believe... to keep their mind off of dying, and such (i.e. Heaven). If the person is more (I'm wanting to say "a free thinker," but that isn't quite right, either) than they will most likely sway in the direction of atheism or agnosticism.

oddguy · #41 08-01-2003, 03:07 AM

Umm....I don't agree with you this time SeaRex. I wouldn't consider myself "weak" because I believe in God. Your opinion, being someone who doesn't believe in God I take it, makes it easy for you to say that "weak" people believe in God. I however, find that having God in my life helps me be a better person.

Facsimile · #42 08-01-2003, 03:20 AM

Wow GrigtheSlig. That was the most ignorant comment I have ever heard in my life. Congratulations.

Disgruntled Intern · #43 08-01-2003, 03:45 AM

Here's how I feel about the whole wee kiddies/let's love god thing.

When you're young, you're extremely impressionable. Mommy or Daddy tells you it's not socially acceptable for you to eat with your hands and chew with your mouth open, with some gentle reminders, you stop. Forever, in most cases.

Same goes with fear. If mommy or daddy tells you that if you're not asleep when 'santa' comes, you'll only get coal, the kid damned near forces himself into a coma every christmas eve.

Fear is a powerful motivational tool, and unfortunately, parents use it to get their children to think in the same mindset as them. [when it comes to religion, atleast.]

Mommy says, "Now jimmy...are you going to go to church tomorrow?"

Jimmy: "Nah, I wanna sleep!"

Mommy: "Well okay then sweety. Have fun burning in a lake of fire for all eternity after you die. which could be any second."

Then you bet your ass that young child is going to go to church. I personally have nothing against children being raised in a religious way or home; as long as they weren't pushed into it with fear.

When parents offer to take their child to church, that's awesome. I mean, I see no point in taking any child under atleast 6, since they will definitely not have a real grasp on what's going on.

But when parents give their child the chance to see what church is all about, without being threatened with eternal damnation and so forth, that's good. Let the kid form his or her own opinions. Let them think for themselves.

Then, if they choose religion, they did it themselves. Not just because their parents threatened them with 'hell'.

EDIT: "Can you have a grand estate next to God's house in heaven. Yup!"

Um, oddguy, let's be realistic here. If god is truly omnipotent, then what use would he have for a house? And if and when you go to heaven, assuming there is one, if you could have a house, what's stopping you from sticking an xbox, or whatever else you want inside of it?

Don't be silly.

oddguy · #44 08-01-2003, 10:12 AM

I don't think Microsoft exsists in heaven, Starbucks maybe, but not Microsoft.

Jacob · #45 08-01-2003, 02:05 PM

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I'm almost positive that the Angel/ArchAngel (can't remember which) Azrael is the bearer of death. But again, I could be wrong... I look up my angel info pages tomorrow.

You're probably correct. There are so many contradictions that state about the Demons and Angels and shtuff which basically shows how contaminated the original version of the Bible and Heavenly events really are.

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Mine happens to be right

Grig, how do you know your version or your beliefs are correct? You're basing this fact on the fact that the Bible itself says its the book of God. Unless you give me other evidence, such as carvings in rock stating that the Bible is, indeed, the book of God, then i am just going to believe that it was a story, much like 'The Lord of the Rings' that got taken too far by Geeks. *Ponders* Hmmm...i can see it now that in 5,000,000 years time people will be reading 'The Lord of the Rings' and following it as a religion...how...how amusing.

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I think that wherever you got all that info, it's clearly wrong!

How is it wrong, my dear?

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and I think that (1)if you had an open mind that you'd think that what me and the rest of the (2)normal people on this thread are saying is true.

(1) - I do have an open mind...

(2) - There is no such thing as normal. Please state more facts that did not come from the Bible and i may believe you.

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I know that Satan is evil and stuff that says otherwise is evil too!

See, it's attitudes like that, that make my stories or gaming ideas get the 3rd degree and get toned down. I don't mean to be offensive here but even though America is a somewhat decent country it is totally f*cked up by people such as yourself complaining about the smallest of things...

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I chalange you to read the Bible all the way through, study and pray about it and you'll get the right answer!

I don't want to. I have tried, but it just gets so boring. Besides, like i stated above, my entire family are the Bible bashing type...

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and if that's what Satan wants them to do

So, by your logic...this is happening;

Lucifer: "Hmmm...what shall i do today...*Looks around bored*...*Sigh*"

Demon: "Well, we could go and create Anarchy...you know...do another 9/11...that was fun."

Lucifer: "Pffftttt...nahh. Same old, same old. I want something that'll actually get a proper reaction..."

Demon: "A proper reaction? Like...hmmm...making President Bush a paedophile?? Make him Nuke England? I'm sure that'll be fun..."

Lucifer: "Nahh...*Checks nails and begins to bite one*...Hmmmm."

Demon: "We could make the Pope a Queer...?"

Lucifer: "No, no, no...but wait...i know...yes...yes this is perfect...i'll...i'll order Legion to possess some random animal and...yes...and turn them Gay!!"

Demon: "O-M-G!! THAT'S GENIUS!! Only a Dark Highness such as yourself could have come up with such an amazing plan!! I'll order them to do it at once!! This'll create complete Anarchy...!! The world will surely implode in on itself!!"

Lucifer: "Plus it'll get the Evangelicans all uptight...heh."

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you loathe the idea because 'god' apparently does.

Precisely. The word 'apparently' should be emphasised, like, everywhere. Can someone please quote were Jesus said "Love everybody...except those dirty Fudge-Packers."

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Do you think it is okay for children to be forced into going to church at an early age?

No. My family did that, so im inclined to believe its something that the child should choose. Most religions do say "This religion is the ONLY religion, so dammit, just believe in this one!!" which does cause mass outbreaks of nastyness. For example a Christian man wanting to marry a Hindu woman. The two families would most likely disagree...and, possibly, abandon their children. If a child wants to take up a religion...then so be it. It's not in our right to say what it has to believe in.

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If you had a good relationship with God, you'd know that God does have a house in heaven

I have a thooperlicious Godlike relationship...he's invited me to his house. And we've had tea. And i've met Mrs God. And we've all got along thooperly. And i've fed his Dog...and played with Jesus...it was so thooper!! The powerful booming voice of his did make my ear drums bleed though...and the shining bright white, light that was coming from his entire body did burn my retina to the extent i can only see things 1mm away from my face...but still...t'was fun!!

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there's several references to "House of God"

That'd be the Church...

SeaRex · #46 08-01-2003, 02:39 PM

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Originally posted by oddguy
Umm....I don't agree with you this time SeaRex. I wouldn't consider myself "weak" because I believe in God.

That came out wrong. I wasn't trying to say weak... but I couldn't find another word to describe what I was saying. I meant, people who need to have faith in something as apposed to people that can go through their lives without belief in an afterlife.

For the record, I'm non-practicing christian. I decided to take up the faith again after I found an interest studying Christian mythology and the Angels/ArchAngels/Demons. Well, and I became extremely afraid of death after I had a severe car wreck, but that's a different story.

Jacob · #47 08-01-2003, 07:21 PM

I haven't been afraid of Death for a long time, on the contrary i've been really excited about dying...but a couple of nights ago i thought "What if there really is nothing?" and that freaked me out...

GrigtheSlig · #48 08-01-2003, 07:41 PM

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Originally posted by Jacob
Grig, how do you know your version or your beliefs are correct? You're basing this fact on the fact that the Bible itself says its the book of God. Unless you give me other evidence, such as carvings in rock stating that the Bible is, indeed, the book of God, then i am just going to believe that it was a story, much like 'The Lord of the Rings' that got taken too far by Geeks. I don't want to. I have tried, but it just gets so boring. Besides, like i stated above, my entire family are the Bible bashing type...How is it wrong, my dear?I do have an open mind...

They have evidence of things that happened in the BIBLE!!! EDIT1: I THINK you don't want to read the BIBLE because your scared that I'll be right in the end and you'll feel stupid. EDIT2:AND YOU SAID THAT you don't want to read it, so you cant prove me wrong!

It's wrong because anyone who belives any of that stuff should go to the nearest mental facility! EDIT3: I DON"T THINK you don't have an open mind at all!! Maybe you should look those words up in the dictionary. I'm really tired of your really long posts that say the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over! You can believe whatever you want, but my beliefs are still the same. I still chalange you to read the BIBLE all the way through WITH AN OPEN MIND!!! And if you don't want to, that's fine, I just EDIT4: think that your scared of learning the truth!

Mac the Janitor · #49 08-01-2003, 07:50 PM

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Originally posted by GrigtheSlig
You don't want to read the BIBLE because your scared that I'll be right in the end and you'll feel stupid

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You don't want to read it, so you cant prove me wrong!

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You don't have an open mind at all!! Maybe you should look those words up in the dictionary.

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And if you don't want to, that's fine, I just know that your scared of learning the truth!

Wow. From what you say, it seems like you know Jacob very, very well...which you don't. Please stop acting like you know all his thoughts and intentions when you don't...it's very annoying.

GrigtheSlig · #50 08-01-2003, 08:37 PM

I'm just making an asumtion, ok! But I do know alot of people like Jacob, and that's how they are! But you don't have to make me sound like a psycic or something. I'm not exactly sure if I'm allowed to be mean to you because your a MOD...probably not. This is really hard to write, cause I don't want to be kicked of the forums! Well, once again, I chalange Jacob and you Mac to read the BIBLE WITH AN OPEN MIND AND HEART.

Jacob · #51 08-01-2003, 09:36 PM

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They have evidence of things that happened in the BIBLE!!!

Such as? I know for a fact that the whole 10 Plagues happened, but everything to do with that (excluding the Angel of Death, as that may be, yet another, exaggeration) were down to a Volcanoe erupting.

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I THINK you don't want to read the BIBLE because your scared that I'll be right in the end and you'll feel stupid.

No, i don't want to read the Bible because -

1) I have better things to do.
2) I don't have the patience.
3) I basically know the story anyway.
4) It's not a very compelling story.

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AND YOU SAID THAT you don't want to read it, so you cant prove me wrong!

We'll see who's proved wrong when we all die...and your kind realise that you've wasted your lives for nothing.

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It's wrong because anyone who belives any of that stuff should go to the nearest mental facility!

That's coming from somebody who supports a religion that does the whole tongue thing...and the whole "Praise-a the Lord-a!! Let me hear-a AMEN!!" etc.

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I DON"T THINK you don't have an open mind at all!!

Ok...?

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I still chalange you to read the BIBLE all the way through WITH AN OPEN MIND!!!

See above. What about you reading the Satanists Bible all the way through...with an open mind?

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I just EDIT4: think that your scared of learning the truth!

The truth is very unclear in this aspect. Nobody knows if the Bible is Gods word...or not...yet once again it doesn't bode well when the only source that states the Bible is the book of God is the Bible itself. Don't you understand that the Bible could have been changed to fit the needs of society and to put fear into people?

By the way Grig, you're defending your beliefs and not offending anyone, you cant get banned for that...

oddguy · #52 08-01-2003, 10:12 PM

Obviously some people have different beliefs. I'm not the kinda guy to try and shove my views down someone else's throat! How annoying!

Mac the Janitor · #53 08-01-2003, 10:22 PM

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Originally posted by oddguy
Obviously some people have different beliefs. I'm not the kinda guy to try and shove my views down someone else's throat! How annoying!

See? Oddguy's my homie. I think I'll buy him a churro.

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Originally posted by GrigtheSlig:Well, once again, I chalange Jacob and you Mac to read the BIBLE WITH AN OPEN MIND AND HEART.

Although I don't particularly believe in most religions, I do have an opend mind about them. I mean, who knows, maybe it's all true. Nobody has proof for either side. And if in the end it turns out that it was true the whole time, that I'd really be screwed if I went around dissing it and all.

Pfft. Grig doesn't deserve a churro.

oddguy · #54 08-01-2003, 10:27 PM

Mac and I are like this! *crosses fingers* Umm.....that is so dead huh? Sorry everyone.

GrigtheSlig · #55 08-01-2003, 11:00 PM

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Originally posted by Mac the Janitor
Although I don't particularly believe in most religions, I do have an opend mind about them. I mean, who knows, maybe it's all true. Nobody has proof for either side. And if in the end it turns out that it was true the whole time, that I'd really be screwed if I went around dissing it and all.

Pfft. Grig doesn't deserve a churro.

Well, I don't like disliking you, so why don't you just read the BIBLE, for me!

Then maybe you'll like it and i'll deserve a churro!

PinkHaired Mudokon CWR · #56 08-02-2003, 12:59 AM

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Originally posted by Disgruntled Intern
Okay, as for the new topic of discussion:

Do you think it is okay for children to be forced into going to church at an early age?
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Of course because little kids have no choice. I mean, as long as you live under parent's house, you have to abide by their rules right? If your children are grown and move out of your house, then yes, they have a choice about what religion they want to or just hope that the religion that they grew up with continues to stay in them. If your a parent who allows their 3 year old to have choices and boss you around, then you have some problems.

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No, i don't want to read the Bible because -

1) I have better things to do.
2) I don't have the patience.
3) I basically know the story anyway.
4) It's not a very compelling story.

Jacob, seriously, that explains everything. Since you didn't read it, then you don't have proof to say that Adam and Eve committed incest and so did their children (which they didn't). So please, stop making all of those stories up on what happen in the bible because those events never did occur. Since you didn't read, then everything you said above is false then. That's like me saying “Oh, I've never read the Grapes of Wrath, but this is what happened!”. Do you know how stupid that really sounds? If you were to say that to a preist, He would think that you are ignorant. I'm not forcing you to read the bible, I'm just warning you because their are people who know the bible front and back and will blow you out of the water and make you feel shame, and you will cause alot of trouble. Plus, I don't even know why people are arguing with you over this topic because I believe it's a waste of time, because you don't listen or you repeat the questions over and over. I'm tired arguing over religion and homosexuality issues. They are getting stupid. I'm a christian, I believe in Jesus Christ and if nobody doesn't like it then tough. This is my life you and you live your own life.

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We'll see who's proved wrong when we all die...and your kind realise that you've wasted your lives for nothing.

When if your wrong and you go to hell. What are you going to do then?

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Nobody knows if the Bible is Gods word...or not...

Um it is dear...get over it.

Anyways, let's drop this topic and move talk about Mac's hot pants!!!!

oddguy · #57 08-02-2003, 02:27 AM

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Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
I'm a christian, I believe in Jesus Christ and if nobody doesn't like it then tough. This is my life you and you live your own life.

*gives high five to Pinky* That's what I'm talking about! Let's change the subject already! Now Jacob and Grig, are you kids going to play nice?

GrigtheSlig · #58 08-02-2003, 02:46 AM

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Originally posted by PinkHaired Mudokon CWR
Of course because little kids have no choice. I mean, as long as you live under parent's house, you have to abide by their rules right? If your children are grown and move out of your house, then yes, they have a choice about what religion they want to or just hope that the religion that they grew up with continues to stay in them. If your a parent who allows their 3 year old to have choices and boss you around, then you have some problems.

Jacob, seriously, that explains everything. Since you didn't read it, then you don't have proof to say that Adam and Eve committed incest and so did their children (which they didn't). So please, stop making all of those stories up on what happen in the bible because those events never did occur. Since you didn't read, then everything you said above is false then. That's like me saying “Oh, I've never read the Grapes of Wrath, but this is what happened!”. Do you know how stupid that really sounds? If you were to say that to a preist, He would think that you are ignorant. I'm not forcing you to read the bible, I'm just warning you because their are people who know the bible front and back and will blow you out of the water and make you feel shame, and you will cause alot of trouble. Plus, I don't even know why people are arguing with you over this topic because I believe it's a waste of time, because you don't listen or you repeat the questions over and over. I'm tired arguing over religion and homosexuality issues. They are getting stupid. I'm a christian, I believe in Jesus Christ and if nobody doesn't like it then tough. This is my life you and you live your own life.

When if your wrong and you go to hell. What are you going to do then?

Um it is dear...get over it.

Anyways, let's drop this topic and move talk about Mac's hot pants!!!!

Go PinkHaired Mudokon CWR! I agree with you 100%! Alright, lets let this subject DIE!!!

Someone make a better topic, I can't think up a good one right now!

paramiteabe · #59 08-02-2003, 03:51 AM

Look, everybody has their own opinions and thats fine. I am not saying that we are better than you or you should follow Jesus Christ or God as a person or thing or whatever he may be. We stated our beliefs as a fact in being more truth to us as it is to you. We are not forceing it we are telling you about it in hopes of maybe haveing people think about their individual lives and the choices they made. If it dident work fine. If you want to be homosexual then fine, if you choose not to believe in God then fine. But what I am saying is think twice before you choose a path in life to follow be wise about your decisions you make in life.

Mac the Janitor · #60 08-02-2003, 05:03 AM

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Anyways, let's drop this topic and move talk about Mac's hot pants!!!!

Pfft, heck yeah. My hot pants are all the rage with the ladies.