RELIGION TOPIC (Fi-nal-ly)
 

okay, I want this to be a clean fight,
If you have anything bad to say about any religion, KEEP IT OUT.
If you are an atheist please refrain from slapping anyone down for believing in a higher power.

I welcome any religion
Christianity (All branches)
Judaism (Chasidic to Messianic)
Buddha
Hindi
Muslim
Wicca
and any legit religions you throw in

If you have any Burns to throw my way, PM them to me, It'll give me something to read.

Let the holy brawl begin

I'm wondering if clicking the submit button was really a good idea



could you make it a sticky maybe?

Yes, finaly indeed. I am a Catholic Christian, not to be confused with Ortodox Christian. I believe in God and Christ. I am also partly Odd and I believe that Oddworld is somwhere out there.

IT WASN'T!
You have no idea how much flaming this will cause.
I really don't think that this thread should be started.....or all chaos will run freely.

then PM the flaming to me, email it to me. if thats the sacrifice I have to make to create this topic, so be it

[Hides in case Dino and Used:) show up]
I'm kinda akward, religion wise. I believe that every religion is true, and you'll get to your heaven/Allah/reincarnation/whocares if you follow that religion's rules. So its a pussy way out of sticking to one religion, but oh well.

Bout time this thing was made. I've been thinking about it for ages now, I was about to now if it still wasn't here :P. Go Abeguy for putting his ass on the line :D.

Now, to put my own ass on the line. Behold my definate and full view on religion.

I'm not religious, not in gods and stuff anyway. I went to a christian school for 10 years, I joined in prair every single morning for the first 5 years and we read bits and pieces of the bible twice a week. Even still, I see the bible as nothing more then another fairy tale. A nice story written just for the heck of it by someone who was bored. Reason for that, the entire book doesn't make sense. It has to many plot holes and things that don't add up. Biggest example is prolly; Where were the dinosaurs?! God made earth, light, sun, water blabla. Adam and Eve, fine. All great, but where were the dino's that excisted in the early days of the earth? We found plenty of skeletons, but their not mentioned in the bible anywhere, not even one tiny case. Next to that, even if they were, I don't see an ice age, I don't see a big meteor hit... All I see is 40 days of rain and a bunch of animals on a big wooden ship. And that, while the ice age and the big bang (I think) are all scientific facts.
So why were they not in the bible? Because when the bible was written, no-one knew about what happen in the past, so they filled up the gap with their own stuff.

Second plot hole: The first humans on earth where Adam and Eve. Both white, yes? Then where come black people from? They some allien race?
Fact is that white people are nothing more then a colour mutation, just like white tigers are a mutation of normal bengal tigers.
White mutations can come from black parents, but not vice versa. A white couple can not give birth to a black baby. And that right there throws the entire first part of the bible out of the window. First people on earth couldn't possibly have been white.

I could go on, but I don't feel like reading the bible just to get the things that don't add up. I know there are a lot more things though. Anyway, it's this way of logical thinking that made me a non religious person. Would things actualy have been added up, then I'd prolly be christian right now.

No, instead I just believe in the idea that there is SOMETHING out there. What it is? No idea. If there is something out there, I'l see it when I'm dead. And untill then I just live my life, not bound by books or invisible guys in the air telling me what I can and can not do.

People can't comprehend the universe. Our brain limits us to do so. The human mind is not build in way so it can comprehend something not having a boundry. Everything needs to have limits, thats the way our mind works.
But you just try to figure out where the universe STOPS, and what is BEHIND that point? See? Impossible to figure out. Thats where religion kicks in as well. We have earth, we have a blue sky some call heaven, and near the core of the earth apparently we have hell. Anything past that doesn't matter, because we don't need to look there, right? Religion: The excuse to escape from real life.

I respect that. Even though I'm Catholic, I won't go around trying to convert people on the streets and the forums.

You better not. And Abeguy, it's spelled Wicca, not Wikka.

I have my own agnostic beliefs.Many of whihc concern a samsara like do hicky. I base my belifs on a few incidents which could greatly be considered cooincidents. I also base my reincarnation belifs off people I know today wyhihc sound strikingly similar to people I read about who lived ages ago.

I worship Satan. You wouldn't believe the things he can do with that pitchfork.

I'm a Protestant Christian and I love God with all of my heart - no other of the religions God(s) can take his place:D:happy:

...and you wouldn't believe what God can do with his mighty power:lol:


~DS~

Maybe not, but I doubt any of them would feel quite as nice.

Nondenominational Christian.

Although I dislike the word "Christian" because it has so many negative connotations, I believe in God and Christ as Savior. I do not even attend church, because I believe that one should know Christ on the individual level, instead of adopting the ideas of others. Church can be helpful with reaffirming faith, I suppose, but it's just not something that I wish to take part in, partly because of the aforementioned negative connotations associated with Christianity; blind hatred and intolerance are extremely detrimental to what I believe Christ was trying to teach the world, but have sadly become synonymous with the Christian faith.

Also, I have no moral quandary with yielding to a Higher Power. Pride is an ugly thing, and humbleness has its own rewards. Spiritually. For me, at least.

There. Just throwing that out. Not trying to push anything on anybody.

That would explain the text in your signature... :fuzgrin:

I like how you treat your religion, SeaRex. If only more people would do it that way.

Hmmm I don't really have any belief... Havoc pretty much summed up everything i wanted to say...

What i'm interested in is knowing how religious people tackle the fact that there were dinasaurs not mentioned on the bible and stuff... And the Eva and adam thing that Havoc mentioned.

BTW Havoc, bigbang is not a fact, it's a theory.. i think...

Yeah, the Big Bang is just a creation theory, there are many others but that's the most popular with scientists and the general population. But there is as much evidence for the creationist theory [God created the world, etc.] as there is for the Big Bang theory.

I don't believe in the creation theory, but you can't rule it out because of the evidence.

- Rexy

It doesn't say anywhere in the bible that Adam and Eve were white. That's just western superiority. There are some religious theories regarding the racial spread in the world, though most are fairly unlikely. They mostly involve the flood and the tower of Babel. One questionable interpretation (used to justify slavery and still used by white-supremists) is that Noah's son Ham was punished for lewd behaviour so that all his descendants were black.

So, really, I don't have any answers there. Just know that you're not going to convert any believers with the race point.

In terms of dinosaurs: some people say that the world was created 'fully formed' - meaning that the dinosaurs, ice ages and carbon dating was set in by creation. Some people say that God used evolution as a tool and that the six days of creation are meant figuratively for the six ages of the universe (big bang, forming of stars and planets, etc). My personal favourite interpretation is based on the Kabbalah story that the world has been created and destroyed six times - each time God set the world 'tasks' but the world did not fulfill them. So we're currently in the seventh and final incarnation of the world. And you can see that in the past billion or so years there have been six major extinctions that wiped almost all the life off the planet.

I'm not trying to convert anyone here, I just find it interesting.

On illustrations pretty much every character in the bible is portrait as white.
It's not my goal to convert believers into non believers. I'l leave the vice versa situation up to the church. I was merely stating my views on things, and the reasons why I treat the bible as just another fairy tale.

The Kabbalah story you mention sounds interesting enough. I think they used that story in The Matrix :P as well. It's not something that would draw me over the line though. This planet is toast no matter what happens. Tommorow, next week, or in a few hundred years. We raped this planet to death pretty much and IMO we don't have to look at the skies to see who is responsible for that, all we need is a mirror.

But like I said, I'm not judging anyone for what they believe in (well there are exceptions), I'm judging the religion itself, because I just find it strange that people believe in something you can't see, hear or touch.

It won't cause any, because no one here has the balls to call anyone else on their bullshit. You're all a bunch of pussies who won't speak your minds because you're afraid of offending people.

You must not have read the pedophile thread.


Cocksucker

Now you're getting it.

You'll get my cock.......to suck.......I mean....if that's okay with you........maybe.....

I call bullshit, because that was pure bullshit.

I agree. Yo busco el verdad.

Actually, I agree with JTI.
Most people are afraid to speak their minds because someone will get offended.
But back to religions.
Probably the wierdest religion I've heard of is pastafanariaism(sp?).
Is anyone else here an actual follower of this?

My friend and I founded a religion called Rupism, where we worship the seven "RUPERTS", which are just lines. There is one line for each day. Monday is Righteousness, Tuesday is Understanding, Wednesday is Playfullness, Thursday is something I forgot, Friday is something else I forgot, Sunday is Tumultuous Fun and and Sunday is Sunday. We are two prophets, known as Fahxwaldo the Lanky and Justinian the Puffy.


Awww, yee.

**** you, fatass, go sleep wit'cho mamma.

I think OWF is pretty loose in that catergory. I mean, look at some other tightass forums, like TES forums. You get a warning for saying '****', and someone becomes a mortal enemy if you tell them to 'shut up'.

{Insert religion commentary}

I'm Christian, but I don't really like going to church because it seems like all they can talk about is how great God is, how God did this, God did that, blah blah blah. It's like that are uncapable of saying how bad a custodian He is. I mean, look at the world today. Millions starving, illiterate, and dying every day. If he actually did all of what it says in the Bible, why can't he help us out?

Plus they sing to much, and I am a horrible singer ;)

That's because the paintings are done by white people.

Yeah, The Matrix was a mishmash of religious references. Quite apart from the fact that Neo was obviously Jesus.

When I can be bothered, I'll try and explain my current stance on religion. But first I'll have to decide what it is.

Not to mention the city of Zion, plus all the names of the team people and stuff. Morhpeus god of sleep.

Well I am teh christian. My parents ain't christian which make sthem think i'm wierd :P. But whatever. I have learned a long while ago that saying "RPNT!" in public can lead to bad things. (Getting kicked out of a water park for example >____>). Anyway I don't really care now if people don't believe in God. I'vebecome nuetral IME.

okay, Havoc, is it? you need to read between the lines and also whats written in black and white in front of all of our faces, I don't know exactly where it is because the bible is so vastly huge I often forget where I find the most amazing stuff. but I did read somewhere which gives reference that the descendent of Ham or one of the sons of Noah are the ones that migrated to Africa and are now the African Americans.
I'd write more but I need to go

Well, back to topic, and bnot bitching about what yins said.

The stupidest religion I have EVER seen has got to be scientology. What a bunch of freaks. "I have body thetans all over me! I wonder what my OT level is!" Who the fuck bases a faith off some two bit science fiction story? Whats worse are the followers. Nothing but a bunch of dimwitted celebrities only being used by the religion for their money.

Dream on Abeguy.

As for the topic at hand, recently I have concluded that religion can ultimately only offer fascile and unsatisfying answers for things that are explained with more truth and majesty by science. Also the bigoted nature of religions means that when they come with any degree of political influence they cause all sorts of problems. For this reason I believe that religion should be banned or at least heavily controlled.

I happen to hold the belief that once a religion affects the life and rights of a person who does not believe in it, then it has already forfeited it's right to exist. Why for instance should a religion factor into an ethical debate involving medical procedures that would only be administered to people who did not believe in that one religion anyway, medical procedures that might save lives? The answer is it should not. Religion, if it should be allowed at all, should operate within the boundaries of, and at the mercy of, the law, a higher atheist power, which is rightfully above the power and influence of religion, which should rightfully have no power and influence as it is merely a personal lifestyle choice.

One major argument for religion being a part of law and ethical influence which I find to be fundamentally flawed, is that without religious guidance we would have no concept of right and wrong. Yet even monkeys have been shown to have a basic concept of right and wrong, and monkeys have no concept of religion. Therefore, non-religious groups of people are just as capable of getting along with one another in a lawful manner as religious groups of people are, because the concept of right and wrong is something far older than religion, and in this instance science has proven that to be the case.

I've found that the harder and closer I look at religion, the more I begin to see the flaws.

Or maybe people could just become more tolerant and accepting of others' differences. [/expecting the obvious][/where is the love?]

My major issue with organized religion is that in many cases it requires you to abandon basic logic and the proven scientific studies of absolute geniuses, for the word of books that were written thousands of years ago. I beleive that these texts were created to help people cope with the simple fact that no matter what happens, you're gonna die. They also do a fairly good job of keeping people in line.

There may or may not be a higher power, whatever the case, I have no way of knowing for sure, so agnosticism is my stance on the whole subject.

Not to mention you can make them all vote in a 'block' for you ;)

Well, since my beliefs are unknown to me as yet I'll post what I know and have heard.

1.
"Introduction to cell biology" at DCU, year 1, semester 1.

Inteligent design is a good theory. Evolution is a good theory. Creationism is a good theory (see #2). However, even science does not know where it all began. How cells started is still all theory. Once they got started it's easy to explain dyverse life on earth using ideas like evolution. IE makes sence and can be convincing. Life is damn complex and defies most Chemisty ideals. I would side with evolution, probably because I heard about it first.
However, science has no proof about how life began. There is room for a god.

2.
Science/Physics does not know what happened at the big bang, or before it. There is still room for a god/higher power. Remember, a lot of science is still theory since it cannot be proved conclusivly. It is seen to work and be true, but that is not proof.

3.
Atheism (the belief there is nothing beyond the physical existance) is a religios belief in itself, going by definition. In fact, if you expand it, it can be viewed just like any other belief. Believing in Everything leads to a belief in the beyond {Everything is a very big word, bigger than Universe}. If you can grasp everything affecting everything on a physical level, then you've got a deep understanding.

4.
I was raised Catholic Christian. "The Da Vinci Code", from what I've heard and seen {haven't read it yet} is complete nonsence. It even messes up something as eligent as Phi {a ratio/number that deeper understanding of is explored in some religions}. It misses the point of "The secret dossies" {tracing a priest back to the local kings}. I will watch the movie, and then make a more informed decision, but from what I've seen it really can't stand by itself.

5.
MojoMan220, I partly agree with you. Following religion to the point where you no longer think about actions but just do them to follow is very dangerous. Ultimitly it is down to individuals to realise they are individuals. Religious wars or crusades NOT justifiable.
However, this does not mean religion itself is bad. It is just that people practice it in foolish ways, or twist it for self-gain. This is where it becomes, in my view, wrong.

6.
This was all my opinion, with the exeption of athists being religious which was debated on another forum I browse. I feel I failed to get this point across effectively.

I totaly agree with Dino here. Religion should be a personal lifestyle, not having anything to do with a law. Then again that would make it impossible for a lot of politicians to do their job because most (especialy in America) base their decisions on their faith.
So the next best thing, which I more then totaly agree with, is banning religion all together. Or at least to a degree where it doesn't influance the world anymore. No more religion in politics, no more religion on TV, ect.
Anti religion? Yes. Better for the world? Yes. Doable? No...
Trying to ban religion now, right in the middle of a war where the entire world prays to whoever they want to pray to, and America gets more enemies by the minute... No, banning religion would lead to riots. They tried to do a similar thing in French schools, and we all know what happend there.

As for religion deciding right from wrong, I think it influances us to a certain degree. Monkeys still have a majority of instinct, telling them what to do and what not to do. Where us humans have a majority of logical thinking.
If the bible wasn't around to tell everyone killing someone is wrong, surely we wouldn't kill everyone we see, but you can be damn straight that it wouldn't carry high penalties or no penaltie at all, because it is not conciderd wrong.
Same goes for the homosexual thing. Homosexualy (same goes for pretty much every other sexual orientation there is) would not have been hated at all, people would not have been killed, tortured and burned alive, if the bible wouldn't have been around to say homosexuality is wrong. In fact, if the bible would have said it was okay, then it would be broadly excepted.
I do believe the bible influances the law to a degree where it influances everyone, including people who arn't religious, and that right there is wrong. Religion should be kept to yourself, and not be pushed onto others.

Now, for your entertainment, or not. A little clip about religion. Be warned though, it's heavily anti christian, so if you think it will offend you then just don't watch it.

http://www.abum.com/show/489/858275079.wmv

Again, I cannot recall where in the bible anything anti-homosexual is said.

I know some religious groups are horribly against it, but I cannot recall where it says why.

I think religion is needed. People need to be able to belive and belive in public. It is wrong to hide beleifs. I know the british army/navy has it's first (recognised) satanist. The recruit, I believe, campained so that he would not be discriminated religiously and should have the right to read his satanic bible in public while onboard.

To use another quote: "Your rights end where mine begin".
You cannot say "you cannot believe that". This is what religious leaders (the ones I don't like) will try to force you. By removing religion / promoting anti-religion you are doing the same thing.

It is unjust to prevent people worshiping. Is it wrong? I don't know.
However, Law protects freedom of religious beliefs. (And if it doesn't, I believe it should)

Aight! I'm Agnostic. I believe that there is a force in the universe that presides over us. But I don't sacrifice or worship to it. Also the bible is nothing more than a mistranslation of the crossing scriptures written by the phaenecians when they were visited by the Model (i think that's what it was called...) from the planet of the crossing a planet that orbits the sun's partner star Nemesis.