A true Christian should be somebody who doesn't force his or her belief upon someone else and invites that person in as a friend. That person who is not Christian should feel invited not be neglected. A good neighbor who just is always there and understands the hardships and respects life. Mainly a true Christian can be any decient human being. You don't have to go to church to be Christian. You just have to be your good self and understand who Christ was and believe.

All the religions including all the denominations or different branches of Christanty are simply the wrong way to be Christian.

Thats impossible. Christianity is a proselytizing religion plain and simple. They always try to convert you in the end because they don't want the thought of their drinking buddies roasting in Hell on their consciences.
And these denominations, all 30,000+ of them are a result of the Bible being an impossible read thats confusion to the 10th power.

im catholic..............

For me a real christian is one who lives according to the two greatest commandements: Hear Israel (and all christians) YHWH our God YHWH is one. You shall love YHWH our God with all your strength, all your mind, all your heart, and all your soul.!!

And you shall love your neighbour as your self.!!


And a true christian also belives that Yashua Ga Nozri (Jesus From Nazareth)
are The Messiah (hebrew)/ The Kristus (greek) meaning The Anointed (of YHWH by the Holy Spirit) and our saviour, who took mankinds sins on his shoulders.

Personly i will also say the trinatarian dogma should be considered unbiblical and pagan, but i will not judge.

Why? Its right in there in all its silliness and WTFness.
First among equals my arse.
/Hooray for mandatory freshman year Latin!

Yeah exactly which makes it wrong in the first place. Look I don't think Jesus walked the earth trying to convert you to be a slave to his kingdom. Just because you don't go to church doesn't mean your dammed forever.

Heck you can worship God where ever you want to worship him. It doesn't have to be a temple or church. I worship God through my talents.

I'm a Pagan/Wiccan.
My grandparents sure do hate me for it....

Do you actualy mean Pagan, or do you mean... {can't remember the word. It means "not Christian" esentialy.}? Paganism is it's own religion, with it's own off-shots. It's a lot older than Christiantiy... although it seem to become a fad amoung teenagers a while back. Still, a lot of things considered Pagan {Golden Dawn, Enochian} do have reference to Angels and make use of Hebrew books.

What have you done with the real paramiteabe? Because you totally don't sound like the real paramiteabe. :p

Let it not be said that people can't change.

Paramite Abe is an apostate.

First of all I wouldn't say I am an apostate because that is someone who has abandon their religion palitical party or something like that. I would say I am more of an enlighten man who changed his way of belief and how to be Christian properly which doesn't mean abandon. I still believe in God but differently than before. And on the political side I see myself constitutionalist or other words Originalist as oppose to Democrat, and Republican which I am learning how messed up both parties are. Secondly you can say I've changed. Personally I find my peace with God when I do my illustrations. I never got that from church. And I blame part of my past behavior on that.

Paramiteabe...:fuzblink:

Paganism and the Trinity
 

Paganism is not one religion, from a christian point of view paganists is all those people that is not christian (i am not sure, but i think that judaistics and moslems aren´t considered paganists), but often it is used on those people who have faith in the old mythologically gods like the northish Odin and Thor, the greek Zeus and Hera, and so on and so on.
But i call it pagan because religions like hinduism had that dogma long before the christians (the Trimurti: Vishnu, Shiva, and Brahma) and the old Babylonistic religion (where also Mary worship came from, my opinion).

But it can also be telled as, i don´t belive in the trinity dogma to be real christian.

Paganism is usually used in a Judeo-Christian context to refer to polytheism.

When I say Pagan, I mean Pagan. Pagan comes from the Latin word Paganus, meaning "a country dweller" or "civilian".

Many Christian traditions were taken from Wicca and Paganism, itself. "Easter Eggs" were a Pagan blessing (much different from hunting for hidden eggs), and many types of Christmas traditions were taken from the Pagan holiday "Yule" (i.e: Yule log, Christmas tree, mistletoe, holly, etc.)

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2...youknowey4.jpg

If you google-define "Pagan", you get:
# heathen: a person who does not acknowledge your god
# a person who follows a polytheistic or pre-Christian religion

...and as the second result you get what you stated ("a practitioner of an Earth Religion"). Unfortunitly, a lot of Christians think "Pagan" means "Gentile". I just wanted to make sure you meant Pagan.

I'm catholic and I don't believe that, if god exists, non catholics will burn in hell. Once my grandma but me in summer school (It sucked) they told me catholics were on a huge boat to heaven, other christians were on kayaks, jews and muslims rode paddle boats, Other religions swam to heaven and satanists and pagans (by catholic church definition) swam away. Insatantly I knew this was BS. If god created all people he would not flick them off to some firery pit of doom.

Actualy, that analogy doesn't seem that harsh... although I still wouldn't agree with it.

It's trying to say that people need to work to get to heaven. Some choose not to try and get to heaven; others take a less direct route. (Of course, it's also trying to say "you need to be Catholic" which isn't true)

Intersting that they left jews and muslims {who worship the same God as "other christians"} in a worse condition than "other chirstians". I would've though there'd be a little more equality between the 4 groups.
I know catholisim in the USA is more... agressive than catholisim over here. But in ever group there seems to be those idiots who'll shout "You're not as good as me! I'm getting to heaven! You're screwed!"

The reason they lowered the Jewish/Islam level is because they only bbelieve in god, not Jesus. I don't know much about jews, but muslims believe Jesus was a prophet (Like in the dead sea scrolls).

"I don't know much about jews"

Yeh, Jews don't believe in Jesus. I have a Jewish friend and i'm constantly lecturing her about how God makes her lot the "Chosen ones" and they repay him by killing his Son and then shrugging and going "What Jesus?"

Haha, if you mention it that way it sounds pretty hilarious :p.

What?

Incest-Fred meant that he's Catholic but he doesn't believe Non-Cath's burn in Hell.

Clear, Negroe?

Ah. I guess I just read stuff wrong. I thought that there was something very... incorrect about what he was saying.

My bad. Carry on, etc.

Les typoes, monsieur.


So what's the deal with Scientology?

Science being a religion... I think...??

"Oh forgive us for our sins mighty fatherly testtube!"

No, the scien- prefix does not make it about science. It comes from the latin "scio" meaning "truth", and the greek word "logos", meaning "study of". Argh! They have mixed greek and latin! Not a good sign.

But you can now see what it means, and where we get our word "science" from.

According to www.scientology.org :

Scientology is the study and handling of the spirit in relationship to itself, others and all of life. The Scientology religion comprises a body of knowledge extending from certain fundamental truths. Prime among these:

Man is an immortal, spiritual being. His experience extends well beyond a single lifetime. His capabilities are unlimited, even if not presently realized — and those capabilities can be realized. He is able to not only solve his own problems, accomplish his goals and gain lasting happiness, but also achieve new, higher states of awareness and ability.

In Scientology no one is asked to accept anything as belief or on faith. That which is true for you is what you have observed to be true. An individual discovers for himself that Scientology works by personally applying its principles and observing or experiencing results.

Through Scientology, people all over the world are achieving the long-sought goal of true spiritual release and freedom.


Honestly, I have no idea what this means.

It's a religion based on a friggin' science fiction author's crackpot philosophy and works of fiction. I use the word "crackpot," regardless of how harsh it may be, because if you actually read about this crap they believe... good Lord. Just wiki it, folks.

Atheists and anti-christians could argue that no other organized religion is any better because religion follows scripture, what they believe to be a work of fiction. I say no. Read this crap about Scientology. Just read it. It doesn't matter if you're a hardcore athiest or a devout Christian. Their beliefs are unbelievable, and I mean that in as many connotations and uses of the word "unbelievable" as possible.

It's my responsibility to respect the religions of others. And I suppose if Scientology brought someone happiness, then I have no right to interfere. But the religion... it reads like a script to a scrapped 60's B-movie. I'm sorry, it just does.

Hmmm, I just did a bit of research on them earlier. It is unbelievable. I guess it could be interpreted symbolically in some ways, but to actually base a faith on it seems rather absurd.

I also remember a lot on the news concerning random clelebrites standing up for Scientology. From what it says on Tom Cruise's wiki, he was apprantly brainwashed into joining them or something.

And that whole bit about psychiatry being a fraud didn't register with my mind at all as well. Scientology seems to be more like an unlicenced crude form of psychiatry to say the least.

I find this to be extremely strange... not the religion, but the statement.
Christianity comes from a written book... A book that is full of bullshit but is accepted non the less.
Now scientoligy comes along, also in a book full of bullshit, and it doesn't matter what is in it, they can worship beans for all I care, but this is not accepted?

How can you say: The bullshit in this book is believeable, but the bullshit in this book is not? Lets sum it up:

Bible: Invisible man in the sky, man pinned to a cross with nails, dieing after about a week, turning water into wine, splitting water, walking on water, ect.

Scientology: People being immortal spiritual beings, no belief should be forced, no invisible man, ect (fair note: I did not read everything about this, but that does not influance the point).

If anything, I would say the scientology story is more believeable then the christian story if only because it does not involve fatherly figures in blue skies and people walking on water...

Everyone on here is only saying what they believe. Which is good n all, I suppose, but nothing has come from scriptures which it should come from.
Here's something that Jesus said to a crowd:

Luke 12: 8-11
"I tell you, all those who stand before others and say they believe in me, I, the Son of God, will say before the angels of God that they belong to me. But all who stand before others and say they do not believe in me, I will say before the angels of God that they do not belong to me.
"Anyone who speaks against the Son of God can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."
Matthew 10: 37-42
"Those who love their father or mother more than they love me are not worthy to be my followers. those who love their son or daughter more than they love me are not worthy to be my followers. Whoever is not willing to carry the cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Those who try to hold on to their lives will give up true life. Those who give up their lives for me will hold on to true life. Whoever accepts you also accepts me, and whoever accepts me also accepts the One who sent me. Whoever meets a prophet and accepts him will receive the reward of a prophet. And whover accepts a good person because that person is good will recieve the reward of a good person. Those who give one of these little ones a cup of cold water because they are my followers will truly get their reward."

Wow, that jesus flla sure was arogant huh?

Yep, he's the most arrogant non-existant Midrashic fable I've ever had the displeasure of knowing of.

Havoc, I know it's a little hypocritical. I don't mind. Everyone is hypocritical sometimes. But come on. Xenu? Thetan levels? This is all based on fiction that some modern day writer has come up with. He wasn't a prophet. He was an author. I'm not even certain if he took everything he was saying as fact. It makes me wonder if some random guy just took some of L. Ron Hubbard's fiction and turned it into a full-blown religion.

Besides, you're talking to the wrong person. I've explained (or at least implied) in this thread that, being a deist, I am much more skeptical and less literal when dealing with scripture. It's not like I would take the Bible and say "Oh. This version of the story is the right one and the Muslim one is wrong." or whatnot, and I wouldn't say that about the ridiculous statements in Scientology either. In other words, I don't draw my spirituality from writings; I draw it from worldly experience. Wrong person to criticize. Criticism denied. :p

Havoc. Read this stuff. Even as an atheist, you know that there are different levels of "unbelievability" when it comes to religion. Scientology takes the cake. End of story.

SeaRex has it down pretty well, I spose. Not only is it bizarre as to how a person looked at a piece of fiction and decided to found a religion on it, but who in fuck would want to have L. Ron Hubbard as their messiah? The man was a crappy author and a pedophile.

To Havoc's remark about the bible being blown out of proportion: All religions have apects that seem truly unbelivable. You can't say one religion is more believable than the other. In fact, most religion is utter crap to the logical mind. But it's faith, you either believe or you don't. That's religion in a nutshell. Except Buddhism in some cases, perhaps. They seem to be the only order which I have actually found enlightenment from when I explored it a little.

Here's something else Jesus said:

John8: 12-19
Jesus said to the peole, "I am the light of the world. If you follow me, you wont be stumbling through the darkness, because you will have the light that leads to life."
The Pharisees replied, 'You are making false calims about yourself!'
Jesus told them, "These claims are valid even though i make them about myself. For i know where i came from and where i am going, but you don't know this about me. You judge me with all your human limitations, but i am not judging ;anyone. And if i did, my judgment would be correct in every respect because i am not alone. I have with me the Father who sent me. Your own law says that if two people agree about something, their witness is accepted as fact. I am the witness, and my Father who sent me is the other."

Searex: Who says the bible isn't written by someone who happened to have a good imagination and good sense of creativity? That guy is probably laughing in his grave as we speak for the sheer stupidity his little story turned out to be.
Religion based on experience, rather then a book, is at least something I respect. So go you, Searex!

Erm, pretty sure the Bible's books came from several different authors in several different times. >.>

I really have no idea what's going on in this thread. XD

I used to be down on Scientology, too. But when somebody starts talking shit about Scientology I don't defend it, I just say something like
"Yeah, Scientology is retarded. Scientology is a bunch of ridiculous fairy tales. But how is that any different than the goofy crap you believe?" Then I have a field day revelling in the preposterous stories of Religion X.
Also, people say Scientology is bad because it costs money. Bullcrap! Ever see how much money the poor people give to the collection plate? What about mandated alms and tithes? As far as I'm concerned Scientology isn't some revolutionary money grabbing scheme, its just the same bullcrap with a different name. L.R. Hubbard got it, I think. He unleased an absolutely epic practical joke on the whole world and even though I don't believe in an afterlife sometimes I like to think that scheister is laughing his head off. Little Know Fact: Emilo Estevez used to be a Scientologist. When he was a Scientologist he was in many movies. Ever since he dropped out his career has been in the toilet. Is this a part of a vast Scientology conspiracy, and if so what level must I obtain to learn what Emilio did to deserve this?

Nath, if your going to quote scripture you should acnologe that the only part of the bible {be it new or old} that was actualy said to be written by God him/her/it-self are the 10 commandments. The rest was all Man.

...also, scriptures are seldom straight-forward. And some are of very questionable decesncy/legality.
e.g.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Deuteronomy 22:10

Adder, if you're going to comment on religious thought, you should acknowledge that you don't know shit.

For religious people, the entire first five books of Moses were dictated to him by God. For non-religious people/biblical revisionists; they were written down and collated much later as the collective legends of the Israelite/Judean people. (For more info on biblical revisionism, read here.