Originally posted by Dino:
The difference between Good Art and Dog Shit is personal preferance. What makes one form of art important and what makes another Dog Shit? Why is a tampon in a cup less important than The Rite of Spring? It's preferance, baby. Your twelve-page essay is due by tomorrow.

I prob can't be bothered flaming anyone, but I'll say some genre stuff.
Although Wikipedia is an extremely good free encyclopedia, I think things such as genres etc are always shifting and the definitions are arbitrary. So Wikipedia is smart and says sneak-em-ups are not a genre, but maybe in 10 years sneaking games will be more common than shooting games somehow and another encyclopedia will list different genres. There's no Central Bureau of Genre naming who has a government granted right to define them or anything, although certain definitions might make more sense than others.
Incidentally, where should encyclopedias get game genre names from if not magazines? They're not supposed to just make stuff up.

Someone disagrees with you, so they're a moron, Dino?
Wow you are such an asshole...

And have you ever thought that no one gives a flying-**** whether wikipedia is an encyclopedia or a dictionary? Because, really, they dont.

Well, it is called Wikipedia... not Wikinary. :p

I will repeat a question asked earlier: How do you sneak someone? Do you sneak up and go BOO! Or do you sneak up and shoot him? Wouldn't both be considered shooting games then? Heh, like I know anything about gaming.

And random question(s) for Dino: Didn't you say you're taking chemistry in college? Was that required for a career in the gaming industry? And I find your taking a general chemistry course strange during your last year (or at least very close to your last year, I assume, because of your age) in college. Things must be so different over there.

"I will repeat a question asked earlier: How do you sneak someone? Do you sneak up and go BOO! Or do you sneak up and shoot him?"

lol, like...that guy....whoever he is...said earlier, it dosnt specifically mean anything, its just a mickytake/continuation/or something of Shoot 'Em Up and Beat 'Em Up.
It was probably first use when Metal Gear Solid for the PSX was first noticed to be a 'gaming mircale' etc, and someone used it as a joke, and it stuck I guess

At least somebody gets it.

Your opinions are no better then anybody elses Dino, we all view things differently depending on our experiences. Art is not as black and white as you make it seem, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Hmm first off I know what wannabe is, second why do you think they "try" to be diffrent?. If you ask me they are original because they don't just focus on the one type of music (regardless of the electric guitar in almost every song.)

You don't have to be any particular age to go to college. I left college ages ago (when I was 18) and started university immediately afterwards. I took several courses, but one of them had a requirement that my current credentials don't allow me to enter into, so I went back to college to acquire that qualification, which was an A level in chemistry.

My title will soon be;
Casper Cabral, BEng (Hons), BSc (Hons), BA (Hons), Dip Chem (Open).

That's 3 postgraduate degrees, 1 diploma. Bachelor of Engineering, Bachelor of Science ICT, Bachelor of Arts, and Chemistry. One of them is an Open University qualification which I will be taking in my free time.

Look, they're not special. Just come to terms with the fact they're not anything new, they're Alternate Metal, they sound almost like every other band in this genre. I'm not criticising liking something that sounds exactly like something else, as I do myself.

Thank God this isn't the 'Ugly people - Should they really breed?' thread. :p

There is no such thing as a Sneak 'Em Up. They are called STEALTH games. :rolleyes:

There seems to be two groups of people.

Those who seek and appreciate meaning in art.

Those who actually appreciate it for what it is aesthetically.

The latter being the most logical method of appreciating art. Appreciating a concept or meaning, by way of appreciating the beauty of the meaning as a work of art (sculpting emotion) is (in my opinion) invalid. There are better means of doing it. Art that attempts to have a meaning is art that wants to be literature. Film and literature are (I believe) where this meaning should be expressed, because they are a better stage for it. The majority of the time you'll find some truely great concepts and meanings that have been totally wasted in a work of 'art', when really they perhaps deserve a book or film, or to a lesser extent perhaps a piece of music. 99% of the time it's because the means of conveying the meaning itself is ugly (IE scrapmetal, a pig cut in half).

To be honest Super Munch, it requires more talent and artistic ability to make a good song with the same essense, atmosphere, and continuity of style with another song, but still retain originality. No matter how similar it is to something else, if it still sounds recogniseably different, and is still rockin, then it's still originality and artistic creation, just within different parameters, different borders. Rather than working with a completely blank canvas, it's like painting a paint-by-numbers in a really funky and different way. You've still got the same image, but it's arranged in a totally different and very creative way.

Look at graffiti for example - there are some noticeably prolific styles, but that does not mean that they are copied. Each work tends to be completely original, but it's still very definately graffiti. If it strays too far from what it is, then it loses it's identity, but if it hangs too close to one idea, it becomes repeated.

Basically, there's a difference between being a copycat, and working within a genre. At the end of the day, it's up to you to use your better judgement and disgretion to work out which one of those two things something is.

Dude, you are so full of yourself. Really.

"I happen to be quite deeply rooted within the underground media community"
^
You consider yourself 'unique', therefore your views are above others who are too 'mainstream' because you've seen it all, and have a different and more accurate perspective of life, compared to all the 'tools'.
Your definitions are correct, and if anyone appears to have another view, then you run to wikipeda. Or 'Mummy' as it were.

"I try not to make generalisations and live my life to the full"
^
You consider yourself open minded, and probably tolerant.
"99% of western society are easily impressed, tasteless morons who are never exposed to anything any better than the crap they're constantly listening to."
That sounds like a generalisation to me. 99% eh? I guess the one percent is you? I'm sure you're worth a whole percent. Right?
Wikipedia, under the definition 'Faulty Generalisation' explains a 'Biased sample' to be:

one that is falsely taken to be typical of a population from which it is drawn.

Uh oh. Mummy has proved that you generalise.

While talking about plastic surgery "There is little doubt in my mind that the only problem with it is the people who get it done." Also generalisation...

And, also, I'm sure you'd never ever make an assumption about anyone just from the things they like, and how they appear to you on the internet, which as most know, is usually unlike their real-life personas...

To Mojo "There's just something about you that really screams 'commercially gullible'."

Oops. My mistake.

"That's 3 postgraduate degrees, 1 diploma. Bachelor of Engineering, Bachelor of Science ICT, Bachelor of Arts, and Chemistry. One of them is an Open University qualification which I will be taking in my free time."
^
You also consider yourself smart, and are a know-it-all because of this.
Once again, this proves to you that your opinions must be correct, and others who are less intelligent, and therefore, in your mind, below you in the evolutionary, chain are all wrong.
Your levels of intelligence also cause you to research, write, re-write, proof read, and spell check your posts, so you never have to use the edit button (like I am now) to correct mistakes. You do not make mistakes. You are a genius. A god among men. right?

Look at all that! Can you SEE what you've said?
If someone said any of those quotes to you in the street, you would probably tell them to **** off, or you'd hit them over the head with a chair from a nearby cafe.
I may be an annoying immature teen, but at least I'm not my own best friend/Advertsing Agent.

Well before you wallow in your own success, consider this:
You are arguing with young TEENAGERS (mostly). You're arguing with people, some of which can niether legally drink, drive, or even get real jobs!
Does that make you feel like a big man, Dino? Arguing with teenagers over the internet?
Your mother would be proud.

You insulting us, is like us going into Primary School and shouting at the chilren for not getting their tables right, then writing an essay on how to murder them all in the most efficient way...using Wikipedia.
University Graduate vs GCSE Student.
Wow, we have a tough guy among us.

I'm sure I'll getting a whole essay even longer than this rant, dis-proving everything I've said with numerous points and use of the word 'Moron', and each thing I said will be taken and twisted round to insult me with a 'University Degree in Wit'
but I think this guy had to be told how far his head was stuck up his own ass.

Well, now I've used quotes, and Wikipedia, and made quite a long and annoying post.
My quest of replicating one of Dino's posts against him is complete, and I shall retreat into the mountains where I shall await his death, and return to delete all traces of an adequate come-back, so it appears I am the victor...
*Jumps on Bus...leaving computer at...bus stop...*

Any work of art is just as capable of transfering emotion and concepts as literature and film*. Simply because a piece doesn't inspire you, doesn't mean it's a steaming pile of rubbish. There are plenty of people in the world who would take a look, and grasp onto one meaning or another. After all, art is not designed for your personal satisfaction. It's made for those that enjoy and find purpose in it.

From the way it sounds, you're almost trying to find some logical and precise way to convey emotion. This concept is better expressed here, this one here.... Sadly, the world just doesn't live that way. A sculptor can't write as well upon a subject as he can craft it with his hands. Otherwise, what would be his incentive for sculpting in the first place? There is no control or decisive force guiding artwork, and because of that, there are a million open ends to be interpreted. It doesn't matter if you don't care for the meaning of a painting, because someone else will. Even if it's not to your taste, it is for theirs, and they are the one it was made for. Just like an aesthetically pleasing picture may not convey any meaning to that same person. It's a fair trade.

* Within the realm of common sense, of course. No decapitated pigs allowed.

Dino still looks 16 in his picture to me.

Um. *Agrees with majic's statement to avoid spam*

"Dino still looks 16 in his picture to me."

Well he said he left college at 18 and it was 'ages ago'

Well, you totally PWNED me. :p AND stood up for Alpha. Many musicals sytles can be spawned off one band, mind you. All sounding close to identical. Take some forms of Death Metal. From my point of view (though mabye clouded in ignorance), Death Metal = Low growling voice + heavy guitars = commonly Drop D tuning. But then again, I don't listen to very much of it so I should really just shut up...

Drakan90, please, just shut up. The only response you can think of is, "Ooh, well you're great aren't you?". Illustrated hyere... (Yes, with a 'y'.)

But when people do pick on youngins when they are not one themselves, it is slightly unfair. But sometimes hilarious. :p

Actually I think you'll find I said a lot more than that.
I used repetition for EMPHASIS in the first bit of the post.
And after each one of those there is a little bit of explanation, so I think you'll find I've said quite a bit more than 'ooh, yeah'

Fine, I'll edit it shall I?

And why should I shut up?
When Dino insults people, no one else outside of Dino and whoever he's insulting says anything about it. People just let it slide.
Whereas when I try to defend myself, I am told to shut up.
Wheres the fairness in that?

Now you've just edited your post with the exact same results, just with a different cover. Just replace "Ooh, you're so", with "You consider yourself".

Emphasis isn't just repetition. As illustrated by the author of the terrible piece of literature, Hatchet, he tried the exact same emphasis sytle. But really, all it is is just a form of badgering, that doesn't get the point across, just aggrivates.

Look how silly that is. Emphasis should not be "OMG U SUKC U SUCK U SUKC CTRL+V".

I am not saying not to defend yourself. I'm just saying to do it with a certain amount of adequaecy. Your edited post is far more intelligent.

Anyway, this is just fighting over nothing, so I'm just going to stop. I formally apologise. We can act like men, no? :)

Super Munch, I feel I should warn you that surrendering nobly or whatever often works better when you don't first continue on the argument - now drakan90 has a bunch of stuff to rebutt against or whatever, yet you've told him not to.

But you can always surrender nobly / simply stop again if he does. Carry on, folks.

Oh.
Yeah.
I was totally just about to say...what he said...right there.
That stuff. Yeah.

And I'm not gonna argue with Super Munch, because I've got no problem with him. I would like to say however, that the 'You consider yourself' isn't for emphasis like the other one.
It simply makes sense to say the same thing instead of wording it differently every time.

"Your edited post is far more intelligent."
Yeah, damn straight. :-P lol

Hijacked threads are overrated.

Hoy hoy hoy.

Bah! Evil. :p

MMORPG's are overrated. I mean, they're all just fancy chatrooms, no? Perhaps with levelling up features... And people sell their accounts on Ebay on occasion! :o

Oh thats so lame when people sell Weapons for REAL money, like, thousands of pounds.
Why would you pay for an inamginary weapon? Its ridiculous.

I would like Final Fantasy 11, but it costs alot...

Smae here... I'll just wait until its Xbox debut.

But otherwise, MMORPG's are just chatrooms. AND they cost. Much more than normal chatrooms... -_-

But with the running and the...slashing of the beasts and what not!
But yeah they cost way too much.
Apart from Runescape or Xenomous
But they suck ass.

I could (and normally would) pick out reasons for why that phrase is stupid, but instead I'll just calmly disagree, phone my therapist, and tell him that I'm making progress.

Yes, I am unique. And you, drakan, are 'special'.

Are they?

Quote me where I said that. I see you've conveniently avoided quoting me on that in your post, yet you managed to quote me on everything else.

Yep, I totally remember saying that.

Like you?

This is pathetic. You're attempting to attatch a stigma to the act of using wikipedia to prove your uneducated ass wrong, so that whenever I use it, you can say I'm "running to mummy"... this is clearly an (albeit foiled) attempt to stop me from using wikipedia to prove you wrong, and it ISN'T, GOING, TO, WORK.

You tell me that I think I'm better, that I think I'm right all the time, yet when I prove you wrong, it's YOU who is too high and fucking mighty to just accept it and admit your mistake. So you go concoct this "running to mummy" bullshit in a failed attempt to make me look bad for citing an external information source. Well fucking done, you've simply made yourself look twice as stupid.

So? You consider yourself god's fucking gift to the forums, and you consider yourself to be right all the time, you even think you're so intelligent and all knowing that you can sit there telling the world what I believe like you are more of an authority on that than I am. I do NOT consider myself tolerant fpr your information - I do not sit around making any kind of special effort for mouth breathing obnoxious losers who are too fucking stupid to know how to deal with being wrong. IE YOU.

That statistic comes from marketing averages within the media industry, which, as a person who works in a games development company, I have free access to. The statistic says that 99% of the western world respond to TV promotion/advertising in some form or another, and that 1% is a group of about 25 million people who do not respond to it, usually because they live in poverty, or dislike mainstream media.

A faulty generalisation is one that has no basis in fact. The above is not a faulty generalisation - it's not even generalisation, it's a statistic based conclusion. A conclusion that is reached after studying statistics. It's not too hard to come to the conclusion that 99% of the western world are tasteless easily manipulated saps when you consider that 99% of the western world actually fall for all the crappy advertising and promoting on TV, radio, internet, and magazines. You would not believe how many people buy 'Busted' albums.

Again, not a generalisation, but an informed opinion.

"which as most know" - That's a generalisation. Hypocrite.

And I don't know why you would expect me to only make assumptions about internet users based on how they act in real life. That strikes me as a bit fucking rediculous. I honestly couldn't give a shit if you're a kind, blood donating, elderly helping person in real life, if you act like an idiot on the internet, then I'll treat you like an idiot on the internet. Don't expect some kind of special treatment just because you rescue kittens from wells when you're not on the 'net.

Your only mistake was being a hypocrite with rediculous expectations. I've not set the precedant for how I treat people, you ASSUMED a precedant, and then judged me on it, because it's far more convenient to get shit on me that way than it is to actually go searching for a real reason to bitch.

slan·der (slhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...GIF/abreve.gifnhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g.../GIF/prime.gifdhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g.../GIF/schwa.gifr)
n.

1. Law. Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person's reputation.
2. A false and malicious statement or report about someone.

Read; "slander".

My opinions are not correct or incorrect. Niether are yours.

I use research, rewrite, proof read and spell check my posts as a courtesy to the other forumers and people who read my posts. I never make statements that are knowingly false - if I do not have the information to make a statement with any grounds of authority, then I will research it. Much better than just making up random, poorly spelled, error ridden bullshit, don't you think?

Actually, if you had done your research by reading through some of my post history, you would've noted that I DO in fact frequently edit my posts. Including this one.

That conflicts with this;

"And, also, I'm sure you'd never ever make an assumption about anyone just from the things they like, and how they appear to you on the internet, which as most know, is usually unlike their real-life personas"

Hypocrite. Again.

Correction; immature, hypocritical, self interested, generalising, self contradictory, slandering, shallow, and obnoxious teen. Although I dislike putting you under the catagory of "teen" as it feels too much like I'd be tarring everyone with the same, ugly brush.

So? Is that supposed to make me take the heat off you? Because if it is, it won't work. There are plenty of teenagers on this forum whom I never argue with, and are far more mature, reasonable, and decent than you are. You have got absolutely no excuse to be acting the way you are.

Here's something for you to consider; you are arguing with a well qualified, established adult, who can legally drink, drive, already has a respectable position working for a games developer, and has just begun studying for 3 degrees. I used to run a forum, and did so for 5 years. Despite all that, I'm totally happy to hold a debate with a forum full of young teenagers as you quite conveniently generalised. If I truly cared about age I wouldn't be here.

Well now you're just putting spin on a clearly neutral recital of facts.

spin (sphttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...GIF/ibreve.gifn) v. spun, (sphttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...GIF/ubreve.gifn) spin·ning, spins v. tr. To provide an interpretation of (a statement or event, for example), especially in a way meant to sway public opinion: “a messenger who spins bogus research into a vile theology of hatred” (William A. Henry III).

Correction; Me kicking your sorry ass around like a redheaded stepchild. In a neutral fashion...

Oh my gosh, now that you've said that I'll be so much less likely to offer a rebuttal. You totally predicted what I was going to do, and now that you've predicted it, I can't do it because I'm so afraid of looking unoriginal, because as you so rightly pointed out, I think I'm totally 'unique'!

Nice try dipshit.

Says the person who objected so strongly to being proven wrong that he inferred a long and pathetic argument filled with spin, hypocrisy, and generalisations in retaliation.

Oh what a clever little ploy. Just to cover yourself in case anyone calls any part of your post into question, you've decided to make up some bullshit about replicating my posting style. Let's see if I can't use this weapon against you:

Disclaimer; if drakan90 responds to this post, then he is officially confirming the fact that he is, in fact, retarded.

Overrated in a sense that at least 80% medievil hack 'n slash games. FFXI, Runescape, WOW, Everquest, you know, online geekfestensteins. Now, if the MMORPG genre were to move out of this territory, I would subtract my statement. Huxley looks like it could do this. But otherwise, I will keep my small-minded opinion.

EDIT: Total PWNage, yet again. I mean, if someone posts something that long, they're dedicated. :p

Dedicated to pwnage, that's me.

You appear to've left out Eve Online - that's overrated, people take one look at the graphics and think that it's fantastic. FFXI and Runescape aren't real MMORPGs. WoW isn't really a very good example of an MMOROG, niether is EQ.

You know what I want to see? Vehicle based MMORPGs. And... maybe cyborgs or robots that you build yourself and then run around the landscape with... something like that. So long as it's got lots of different parts that customise the way it looks and works, it's a good'n with me. Especially if it has user paintable surfaces - imagine painting your own camo or colourschemes. :p

You typed all that?

I only read the very top, middle, and very bottom of the post. I'm not wasting my time reading every individual little thing you've said. I think I got the general idea.

How many hours of your life did you spend responding to that?
Its a post, from some guy you'll never meet, on a forum.
I was just defending myself against you insulting me for no reason, AND my post was much smaller.

I'm not a hypocrite. I never said I didnt generalise. So shove that up your ass.
So what if two of my posts condraticted each other? If someone said your quotes in person, you'd think they were a twat. I never said that was your real life persona, I said IF someone said them in real life.

"I mean, if someone posts something that long, they're dedicated"
But to what??
To spend so much time replying to me is just ****ing sad.
You gotta admit, that was a waste of valuable time and effort.

I'm just gonna leave it here, because I know that you wont.
Go ahead, claim your victory.

Drakan and Dino: please, please take it to PM.

WoW is so overrated. Erm, looks it anyway. The graphics look mediocre at best, and the whole $15 a month thing is pretty insane.

And realtime strategy games. Blugh. Frantically moving the cursor around the screen clicking on tiny, poorly detailed critters isn't my idea of fun.

You've only just worked that out?

Well that's your problem then, not mine. If you don't read it properly then you have little to no right to comment on it. Believe me, if you've not read it in it's entireity then you have not got the general idea.

Hours?

More like four minutes. Let's see, what creative things could I do in a four minutes? I could um... have a piss, get something out of the fridge, or have a wank... yeah. The latter would probably take 10 minutes. Considering that I didn't need to do any of those things I think I used my time quite wisely, considering that kicking your ass was actually fairly entertaining.

But somehow it still gives you reason to keep coming back to reply doesn't it?

DEFENDING YOURSELF? HA! My ass you were. If that's what you call defending yourself then you were going way above and beyond the call of duty. I'd say it was more along the lines of attacking than defending. What's more you claim that I was insulting you for no reason, but the whole reason I was insulting you was because you were insulting me with your "run to mummy" bullshit, attempting to deflect attention from the fact that you were wrong and made a fool of yourself by being such a stubborn little bitch.

Your post was smaller. What difference does that make, and point does that prove? So I can't put it in a couple paragraphs because I've got more to say, hardly a crime.

Again another fine example of your "self defense" drakan. I'm sure that somewhere in your rebuttal to this post you'll have some statement in which you tell us all that "shove that up your ass" constitutes a defense.

Regardless, you are a hypocrite. The fact that you believe you aren't is simply as a result of you not reading my post properly. I actually quoted you and proved that you are a hypocrite - it doesn't matter if you don't read it or refuse to accept the proven facts (something you seem to make a habit of) it's still there for everyone else to see, the evidence is preserved forever in my post, and until you come to terms with it, your denying it's existance/validity isn't going to change things.

I'm sure hitler probably once said "so what if I murdered 6 million innocent jews?". The fact that the question is hard to answer doesn't mean that incredulity is ill expressed towards it, or that it makes some kind of valid point. Contrary to what you apparantly believe, it genuinely matters if you contradict yourself - for starters it doesn't exactly win you any favour or credibility. The old addage "don't shoot yourself in the foot" is particularly appropriate here.

And you're an authority on what the majority think because...?

Oh worry not ye who feigns concern, I didn't spend any time or effort on either this post or the other one. All of about 6 minutes of touchtyping and my usual eloquent rhetoric.

Yeah, maybe you telling me to shove it up my ass might have something to do with that? I doubt that you will leave it here though.

It is overrated, but not because of the shoddy graphics. Graphics aren't really a factor in MMORPGs, although increasingly they are becoming a requirement as there is a need to be able to properly see what's going on. Regardless a game with shitty graphics isn't very rewarding to play, since no matter what progress you make, it doesn't really ever give you anything nice to look at/cool looking, which aside from ability is really the only reward from any MMORPG.

WoW is overrated because of it's gameplay. It's literally a slow burning heavily expanded MMORPG version of Diablo II. Nothing anywhere near as special as people were saying. At first it's fantastic, but then it just gets repetative and dull.

You're a pompous little windbag, aren't you?:)

Now tell me how stupid I am. I know you want to.:(

Pompous? Hmm, I'd say no, I'm not. To say that I'm being pompous would be to suggest that I'm ranting in a puffed up, overceremonial manner, but if you read through what I've said I've actually been sticking quite closely to quotes, and arguing my case as eloquently/articulately/shorthandedly as is possible without sacrificing the completeness of the argument, accuracy of points, or anything else. This does unfortunately require the use of some... perhaps slightly pompous words, but believe me, none used for any reason other than to convey the point as quickly and eloquently as possible. I don't curry favour using big words; that's not my style.

I'm not going to tell you that you're stupid, because I genuinely don't believe that you are stupid. I'm perhaps a little disappointed that you feel the need to comment on this here and now, because the likelihood is that drakan90 will probably use it to his assumed advantage in some form of some incredulity inspiring pontifical mumbojumbo (now that really was pompous), as is always the way with these people.

I was kidding. No one ever seems to find me as funny as I find myself.:( I didn't even bother to read the greater part of your post. I'm just really bored at work right now and I was trying to lighten the mood. Anytime I use an oddicon know that I am being stupid for the sake of being stupid. Sorry for any confusion.

That's ok, I was being ironic. :p

Shutup, asshole! :fuzmad:

Ritalin, anybody? o_0

I don't think you can imagine how boring my job is. God, I just want to die.

Come on guys, let's not shift off topic now. Wait a minute, what is the topic? Oh yeah, it had something to do with the suckage and/or non-suckage of drakan90 and Dino. Is that right? Shit.

Mojoman is overrated. ;)

a ton of music.


seriously, what is wrong with people?



halo, fashioncore, television, soda.


one gripe i have with people who say hip-hop is shit/requires no talent is that they haven't heard decent ROCK[or any deriviative thereof; indie, post-punk, post-hardcore, slowcore, shoegaze, proto-punk, etc., etc.], let alone decent rap.